Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds Series >> RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/23/2011 7:12:16 AM   
adecoy95


Posts: 420
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline
sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

if the ai cheats, and pays no upkeep for troops, they can spam them forever on even the lowest of quality worlds.

its kinda lame, but its the simplest and probably the most effective solution. and its probably alot easier to code than alot of these suggestions.

this way, you can either bomb a world to uselessness, or try and take out its 70+ garrison

(in reply to pipewrench)
Post #: 31
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/23/2011 12:53:30 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2082
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

if the ai cheats, and pays no upkeep for troops, they can spam them forever on even the lowest of quality worlds.

its kinda lame, but its the simplest and probably the most effective solution. and its probably alot easier to code than alot of these suggestions.

this way, you can either bomb a world to uselessness, or try and take out its 70+ garrison


I will stop playing the game if that happended.

_____________________________


(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 32
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/23/2011 1:36:49 PM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


I've suggested a very easy fix for that by increasing the troop module size...that alone will go a long way to alleviate the problem. Even with no other things done, that would severely limit being able to amass hordes of troops for landings.


Your example force indicates 36 troop ships divided between 3 fleets. Looking at your income and maintenance, I can't see how it would make a heck of a difference if you were forced to triple or quadruple your troop ship count. And if so - then have fun taking out an independent world early in the game. No way can you afford the maintenance on a half-dozen troop ships you'd need to take out any independent world, in the early stages of a game.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 33
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/23/2011 4:15:42 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


I've suggested a very easy fix for that by increasing the troop module size...that alone will go a long way to alleviate the problem. Even with no other things done, that would severely limit being able to amass hordes of troops for landings.


Your example force indicates 36 troop ships divided between 3 fleets. Looking at your income and maintenance, I can't see how it would make a heck of a difference if you were forced to triple or quadruple your troop ship count. And if so - then have fun taking out an independent world early in the game. No way can you afford the maintenance on a half-dozen troop ships you'd need to take out any independent world, in the early stages of a game.


Keep in mind my screen shot was taken AFTER taking those homeworlds. When I started the game, I did it with a fleet of redesigned transports capable of carrying 3 troopers each. I only needed to get 12 troops. And that is the problem. It is far to easy to get troop modules on a ship when they are only size 8. The transports aren't fast, but they don't have to ben if properly escorted (meaning you clear all the defenses first).

Once I get home from work, I will show you what I use at first so you can see the cost and see that it is in fact affordable.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Kayoz)
Post #: 34
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/23/2011 4:26:41 PM   
Setekh


Posts: 178
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: Norfolk, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76


quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

if the ai cheats, and pays no upkeep for troops, they can spam them forever on even the lowest of quality worlds.

its kinda lame, but its the simplest and probably the most effective solution. and its probably alot easier to code than alot of these suggestions.

this way, you can either bomb a world to uselessness, or try and take out its 70+ garrison


I will stop playing the game if that happended.

So would I, that's a horrible solution and one I hope that never happens.

_____________________________


(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 35
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/23/2011 4:30:00 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Setekh


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76


quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

if the ai cheats, and pays no upkeep for troops, they can spam them forever on even the lowest of quality worlds.

its kinda lame, but its the simplest and probably the most effective solution. and its probably alot easier to code than alot of these suggestions.

this way, you can either bomb a world to uselessness, or try and take out its 70+ garrison


I will stop playing the game if that happended.

So would I, that's a horrible solution and one I hope that never happens.


I agree with you on this. A unlimited AI troop cheat is not the solution.

Reprogramming the AI so that it keeps a force at its high population colonies that is proportional to the importance of the colony is acceptable.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Setekh)
Post #: 36
I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 7:00:41 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
OK, since pictures say more than words, I will walk you through how to make a home planet seizing fleet from the start.

First picture, is the opening of the game economy, with only 1 colony, 12 troops, and the starting shipset:

As you can see, its a fairly decent economy, but nothing special.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 37
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 7:02:13 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Next, the standard troopship design I have as generated by the game. In other words, opening tech, no changes.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 38
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 7:03:45 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Now, my slightly modified design. Since I play a mod which gives the mega-density cell, I even removed those and put standard ones back on in their place.

This was extremely easy...drop 1 shield, add 3 troop modules.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 39
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 7:06:09 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Now then, I recruited 20 new troops, unpaused the game, and built enough ships so that I end up with:

12 escort
12 frigate
12 destroyer
4 troopships
4 explorers
2 constructors

Then set the game on 4x speed and let the troops start to laod.

Here's the fleet after enought time to colonize 3 new worlds...~ 10 minutes of playtime at 4x speed.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 40
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 7:07:03 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Pic of a loaded transport. Note it can carry 4 troops.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 41
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 7:08:10 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
And finally the ending economy with 1 of these 'over-powered' transport fleets:

I can easily afford a second fleet similar to this one, or to simply expand by 4 more transports.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 42
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 7:10:38 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
Now then, I hope I have shown the problem. 7 troop modules meaning I only need 4 transports to have a fleet big enough to carry enough troops to invade an early state homeworld. I have enough warships to clear the defenses, and with 6-8 of these transports enough troops to make sure the invasion succeeds. A larger size transport module would mitigate this, and may be all that is needed to do so.

And then once I have that first homeworld, well my economy effectively doubles, and perpetuates the problem.

Two things would really help:

1. Increase the troop module size to 50. At game start 1-2 at most on a ship, and only on transports.
2. More AI troops on the homeplanet at the start would necessitate the transport of more invasion troops...making it harder to knock out an empire within an hour of starting the game.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 1/23/2011 7:13:54 PM >


_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 43
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 8:01:09 PM   
Data


Posts: 3907
Joined: 1/3/2011
Status: offline
great demonstration, Shark, a little aar in itself....preparation for invasion aar

_____________________________

...Igniting stellar cores....Recharging reactors...Recalibrating hyperdrives....

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 44
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/23/2011 9:38:21 PM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline
To be honest the best solution is to make the AI play more like a Human does.  Find out what it is that makes AI homeworlds/colonies easy to take, see what it does different to the typical Human player, adjust accordingly.  Including, perhaps, attacking player homeworlds early on (depending on aggression of the race), that seems to be Human behaviour here anyway.  

Edit: Oops, that sounds like a direct response to Sharks posts, I'm actually just replying in general because this topic is spread over several threads, and this thread was nearest the top of the forum

< Message edited by WoodMan -- 1/23/2011 9:43:34 PM >


_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to Data)
Post #: 45
RE: I will show you how easy it is..multi-part post - 1/24/2011 2:06:07 AM   
Kayoz


Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline
Righto - I was making assumptions on your game which weren't consistent with the situation you were explaining.

Dunno - I think the "homeworld invasion too easy" question has to be approached from multiple angles. But this discussion is spread out over multiple threads involving loads of people. I think it would be more productive for a company rep to post a proposal of changes related to this problem, and let people pick it apart. Otherwise, the discussion is too scattered and chaotic for Elliot and such to make sense of.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 46
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/27/2011 11:34:21 AM   
solops

 

Posts: 697
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline
The real problem is being able to invade at all when orbital defenses still exist. This was pointed out the first week DW came out and was to have been addressed. The idea that one can invade while orbital defenses exist is hard enough to swallow, but then to have those defenses flip control over to the invader is ludicrous. If one DOES have uncontested control of the high orbitals, then invasion ought to be "simple." Keeping the planet is another issue entirely.

< Message edited by solops -- 1/27/2011 12:00:03 PM >


_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 47
RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution - 1/27/2011 2:21:28 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7853
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

The real problem is being able to invade at all when orbital defenses still exist. This was pointed out the first week DW came out and was to have been addressed. The idea that one can invade while orbital defenses exist is hard enough to swallow, but then to have those defenses flip control over to the invader is ludicrous. If one DOES have uncontested control of the high orbitals, then invasion ought to be "simple." Keeping the planet is another issue entirely.


Personally I have never tried to invade until I have eliminated the defense bases and starports, so its a moot point. It's just as easy to do either way.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 48
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds Series >> RE: Home planet invasion too easy solution Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.148