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Could there be maked a scenario from 1943?

 
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Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/10/2011 7:32:34 PM   
MAARTENR


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Could there please maked a scenario wich start around 1943?
This would be cool.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/10/2011 7:52:46 PM   
Joe D.


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I think a MidWay scenario whose results could be incorporated into a larger campaign would be very cool.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/10/2011 8:41:44 PM   
marky


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ya that does sound cool. or maybe some general solomons and new guinea related scenarios

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 12:16:54 AM   
Capt Hornblower


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Have you guys played Uncommon Valor? It has a number of scenarios that start in 1943. Granted, it only deals with the southwest Pacific, but I think it's a great game.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 12:35:10 AM   
marky


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indeed, havent played UV in a while tho 

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 12:49:07 AM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

Have you guys played Uncommon Valor? It has a number of scenarios that start in 1943 ...


Yes, but unfortunately WitP/AE has only one 'Canal scenario.

UV was a great game, but after playing AE, the player is spoiled by all the extra TF movement options.

BTW, many UV players were looking forward to Carrier Force, a CV enhanced UV, but it never materialized.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 3:03:41 AM   
mbar


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Has anyone started a PC vs PC full campaign with all pop ups turned off and then let the game run? Can a person stop the turns in '42, '43, '44, and '45, make separate saves, and use those for starts of your own campaigns? Cheesy way to do it. But why not?

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 3:41:35 AM   
Fishbed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

Have you guys played Uncommon Valor? It has a number of scenarios that start in 1943 ...


Yes, but unfortunately WitP/AE has only one 'Canal scenario.

UV was a great game, but after playing AE, the player is spoiled by all the extra TF movement options.

BTW, many UV players were looking forward to Carrier Force, a CV enhanced UV, but it never materialized.



There's already a very functional SOPAC scenario available (May 1942-April 1943) from Thorongil I am playing right now. There are a couple bugs being addressed as I am playtesting it, but overall, it's a pretty nice babe, all together with the Witp non-Midway setting (whole kido butai available by July-August). I think Andy said he's designing one too.

Wanna get a link for download? I can look for it if you want to. The designer will be happy about having it playtested in PBEM by foreign players.

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 1/11/2011 3:44:28 AM >


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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 3:42:14 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
BTW, many UV players were looking forward to Carrier Force, a CV enhanced UV, but it never materialized.


More like a remake of Carrier Strike. I still have that DOS game.

Regarding scenarios I really miss the mid-war starting scenarios of WITP (stock).

quote:

ORIGINAL: mbar

Has anyone started a PC vs PC full campaign with all pop ups turned off and then let the game run? Can a person stop the turns in '42, '43, '44, and '45, make separate saves, and use those for starts of your own campaigns? Cheesy way to do it. But why not?


Hey that sounds interesting but it won't be a "Historical start".

< Message edited by jomni -- 1/11/2011 3:43:27 AM >

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 6:31:47 AM   
V22 Osprey


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I agree on this. Gary Grigsby was better with WitE by providing scenarios that start at each scenario of the war. I would have like for similar scenarios for AE. I find it's allot easier to enjoy and get going if join the game where the war is already in motion. Plus, it will take months and months of playing just to play with the late war goodies. I want to play with hell divers and Super fortress', not devastators and pea shooters.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 1/11/2011 6:33:48 AM >


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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 8:01:25 AM   
Fishbed


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Some talk about this like if it was easy - but when it comes to OOB, that's quite a task. 
Nothing makes a middle-war scenario easier to set up than a December 7th-8th one. Actually, it's quite the opposite: you have a much better track of where is everything at the start rather than at the middle stage.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 8:45:09 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Some talk about this like if it was easy - but when it comes to OOB, that's quite a task. 
Nothing makes a middle-war scenario easier to set up than a December 7th-8th one. Actually, it's quite the opposite: you have a much better track of where is everything at the start rather than at the middle stage.


But they did it in WITP stock. So additional work is actually less if they use that as springboard.
Unless that's totally bogus.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 8:50:40 AM   
Fishbed


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Well I have to say that from my perspective, and most probably what I heard from the scenario makers, the way the OOB is being researched is on par with the enhancements we could witness on the game mechanics. If you want to do it very seriously and throughoutly, you're gonna have to spend quite a time on this (just think about the ground war element), that they didn't have back then when AE was due to be released.

Now, that's another story. Someone can still do it on his freetime. The SOPAC scenario I mentioned earlier is based on the very technique you've just talked about: Thorongil took the original Witp scenario, and adapted it to AE with some spicy additions. But doing additional research, especially on the whole Pacific/Asian theater, is something else entirely.


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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 10:32:33 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Some talk about this like if it was easy - but when it comes to OOB, that's quite a task. 
Nothing makes a middle-war scenario easier to set up than a December 7th-8th one. Actually, it's quite the opposite: you have a much better track of where is everything at the start rather than at the middle stage.


But they did it in WITP stock. So additional work is actually less if they use that as springboard. Unless that's totally bogus.



Nailed it in one try! Stock's OB's are notoriously bogus. Even in the Grand Campaign Game (which should have been the easiest to research) there are some Japanese units that are represented as many as THREE times in the starting OB.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 6:06:30 PM   
Terminus


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There should almost have been a ding-ding-ding noise for that post by "jomni"... Stock's post 1941 OOB's are mainly guesswork, and that's by necessity, not deliberate choice, although they could have been "cleaner", as Scholl intimated.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 7:40:47 PM   
crsutton


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I always enjoyed the May 42 start in WITP. Would not mind seeing it.

That said another player and I worked on an modified scenaior for UV. I think it was a pretty good one. But I can say that it took a trememdous amout of time and work. He did the research and I did the editor work. And, UV was a much simpler platform than AE. I agree that a 1943 scenario would be a good one but not an easy one to whip up. You have to ask yourself if you would be willing to undertake such a complicated project? Not many would, and we should be thankful for those that do.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 8:25:21 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I always enjoyed the May 42 start in WITP. Would not mind seeing it.

That said another player and I worked on an modified scenaior for UV. I think it was a pretty good one. But I can say that it took a trememdous amout of time and work. He did the research and I did the editor work. And, UV was a much simpler platform than AE. I agree that a 1943 scenario would be a good one but not an easy one to whip up. You have to ask yourself if you would be willing to undertake such a complicated project? Not many would, and we should be thankful for those that do.


TO MATRIX: Have you considered an expansion pack for AE to be sold for, you know, MONEY? Perhaps some of the devs would undertake it if they were paid? I'd go probably $25 for a May 1942 semi-accurate start-date, and $35-40 for that plus a June 1944 version. DLC content for mainstream games like "Fallout" and "Call of Duty" provides far fewer hours of entertainment, for about $20.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 9:10:35 PM   
SimHq Tom Cofield

 

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I'd pay money for it.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 9:17:07 PM   
Schanilec

 

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Already have the wallet out.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 9:23:51 PM   
RedCharlie65

 

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Same here.  I just got the game myself and am just floored by how deep and sophisticated it is.  Not to mention loads of wargaming fun.  I would pay extra cash for more scenarios.  Please consider it.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 11:13:27 PM   
Ranger5355

 

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I've mentioned this before, I would love to see an AE based UV. It seems that the OOB would not be too hard to transfer but the extra features and movement changes to reflect the smaller hex size must be daunting and scripting the AI sounds like a very complex thing indeed. Never the less I agree with RedCharlie65, I gladly pay for it. I wonder how many others out there would toss twenty or thirty bucks at a comprehensive adaptation.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 11:53:13 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I always enjoyed the May 42 start in WITP. Would not mind seeing it.

That said another player and I worked on an modified scenaior for UV. I think it was a pretty good one. But I can say that it took a trememdous amout of time and work. He did the research and I did the editor work. And, UV was a much simpler platform than AE. I agree that a 1943 scenario would be a good one but not an easy one to whip up. You have to ask yourself if you would be willing to undertake such a complicated project? Not many would, and we should be thankful for those that do.


TO MATRIX: Have you considered an expansion pack for AE to be sold for, you know, MONEY? Perhaps some of the devs would undertake it if they were paid? I'd go probably $25 for a May 1942 semi-accurate start-date, and $35-40 for that plus a June 1944 version. DLC content for mainstream games like "Fallout" and "Call of Duty" provides far fewer hours of entertainment, for about $20.


Bullwinkle58,

Good idea, I certainly would not be averse to paying for additional scenarios. For those who would complain, together with additional scenarios, maybe to quieten those voices, the devs could also address some coding issues which were originally out of scope for AE.

However, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting any dev to be enthusiastic, even if they were to be paid. With all the whining which occurs here, could you imagine the howls of protest if a single pixentroop was out of position by as much as 46 statute miles or 17 days. It is bad enough now when the fruit of devs work is made available for free, could you imagine the situation were it to cost money.

Alfred

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/11/2011 11:55:14 PM   
Mynok


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I actually thought that the original UV scale worked well for the limited theatre. Witp and WitpAE seem too "zoomed out" to function as a good basis for a UV-style game. Now the rest of the mechanics would be just fine, but I'd like the old scale back.


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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/12/2011 12:49:53 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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I would also have no problem paying for a scenario pack.
I don't see another Pacific Theater game in the next five years or longer. So they may of well squeeze out more content for this engine after having done all the work.

The only problem I see is that some excellent small scenarios have been done already by forum members who poured in hundreds of hours and received no compensation.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/12/2011 2:51:59 AM   
Cribtop


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I'd buy it.


< Message edited by Cribtop -- 1/12/2011 2:52:48 AM >


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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/12/2011 4:22:05 AM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

The only problem I see is that some excellent small scenarios have been done already by forum members who poured in hundreds of hours and received no compensation.


I don't see this as a problem at all. IMO, anybody that created a scenario did so because they wanted it, not for compensation. This is not comparable to a company funding a project for a paid expansion pack and then supporting it.

If Henderson Field Designs goes for it, I'll buy it to show support for their effort. I actually like starting 12/7/41 and working to create better possibilities as the years go by.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/12/2011 5:06:51 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

However, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting any dev to be enthusiastic, even if they were to be paid. With all the whining which occurs here, could you imagine the howls of protest if a single pixentroop was out of position by as much as 46 statute miles or 17 days. It is bad enough now when the fruit of devs work is made available for free, could you imagine the situation were it to cost money.

Alfred


So here's what they do. Publish it, but announce all dev support will be from a new sub-forum only, as a "special service" to the extra-paying customers.

Then they don't read it.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/12/2011 8:44:32 AM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

However, I wouldn't hold my breath expecting any dev to be enthusiastic, even if they were to be paid. With all the whining which occurs here, could you imagine the howls of protest if a single pixentroop was out of position by as much as 46 statute miles or 17 days. It is bad enough now when the fruit of devs work is made available for free, could you imagine the situation were it to cost money.

Alfred


So here's what they do. Publish it, but announce all dev support will be from a new sub-forum only, as a "special service" to the extra-paying customers.

Then they don't read it.


I don't think you understood what Alfred said. I believe he meant that people that pay for this would "protest" worse than they have in the past for any errors. IMO, his assumption is valid. Picture the outcry if it turns out the 1st Marine Div. has cheeseburgers as rations when it should have been bacon cheeseburgers...

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/12/2011 3:49:16 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

I don't think you understood what Alfred said. I believe he meant that people that pay for this would "protest" worse than they have in the past for any errors. IMO, his assumption is valid. Picture the outcry if it turns out the 1st Marine Div. has cheeseburgers as rations when it should have been bacon cheeseburgers...


No, I "get" Alfred's post. I'm just not as polite as he is.

Any folks here who work in business or law, as opposed to, say, IT or engineering, understand at a deck-plate level the concept of warranty. A product is only required to meet certain (minimum) legal standards of performance, OR what you yourself say it will meet. If a 1942 scenario is not warrantied to be exact, perfect, or otherwise without defect, the seller is under no obligation to respond or even listen to carping by purchasers.

However, I don't think the for-pay idea is very interesting to Matrix. I doubt the volume/revenue model is compelling versus the management time that would be consumed. Better to focus on a WITP 2.

I have been doing some noodling on the idea of a volunteer team doing such a scenario though. It's been a long time since I ran a big project, but I have run them. I was also married to a pretty good Big 5 consultant who taught me a lot about running very large IT integration projects.

I think a large-scale May 1942-start AE scenario could be wrangled by a team of no more than four leads, using the Net and the world-class WWII library collectively owned by forumites. The key proviso would be, however: "90% is good enough. All others, see the Editor." Using the Editor, Tracker's exporting and stratifying capabilities, and a clean Scenario 1 file, such a team (Air, Sea, Land, Bases/Economy) could use the excellent existing OOB as a starting point. Post-May 1, 1942, let the units arrive/be structured as now. Withdrawn units to that point, whack 'em. Build a sharable spreadsheet, put it in public with the team czars having sole editing power and the 90% decision-making power, and ask the community to fill in the Who, What, Where. Establish norms such as no CO debates below division level/CA-size ships. Let each side have ten (10) historical air unit COs and assign the others. Establish bands of dispruption, experience, etc. for LCUs where the historical record is unclear (Expert, Veteran, Trained, Recruit) and just assign them. The key is no more than four people, and ultimately the subject team lead if necessary, decides and they move on.

The key is asking for community help, but not being hamstrung by it. Distributed labor load. Accepting it won't be perfect, but only 90%. Making team T-shirts is vital. Seriously, sell them on eBay and pay the devs.

There are probably tech savvy young guys here who would love a resume stuffer for project management. If there are firm up-front rules and assumptions, and the community is brought in to help, but not control, it could get done in a few months. Perhaps if a working May 1, 1942 OOB and map could be produced, at that point the devs (Andy) or Matrix with some money could be persuaded to help write AI scripts, so long as the scope were restricted (no Quiet China, Ironman, Scenario 2, etc. One size fits all.)

Anyway, just some ideas. It could be done by amateurs using the professional grade OOB we already have, plus a collective attitude of 90% and four czars.

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RE: Could there be maked a scenario from 1943? - 1/12/2011 5:30:30 PM   
SimHq Tom Cofield

 

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So they farm it out. There are plenty of people out there that have the time and the knowlege to put together something like this. If WPO can be made from the original WITP then a 1942 and 43 scenerio should be doable. Just using the WitP database and going from there would be some kind of a start. I know it has its problems but this should be doable and I suspect that 25 bucks for a 1942 and 43 scenerio would probably bring the guys that made it some nice change. Even if they give half to matrix then there should still be a good return on their time and effort.

I don't think all of us would complain too much about minor errors or guesswork based upon incomplete history as long as the general units are of the right component size and the game starts out historically correct. Yes, there will be the rivet counters (to use a flight simulation term) that will notice that the 27th Myfootissore Bn has three too many engineer platoons. Most of us won't notice the difference and honestly won't really care.

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