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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand

 
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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/11/2011 1:19:52 AM   
MechFO

 

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In last cases concerning the Infantry Korps, HQ were gorging themselves, increasing dumps, sometimes rapidly, but very little was for some reason filtering through to the units. In the case of the Pz Korps, at least the HQ seemed to be passing the supply on, but the stockpiles should IMO have depleted quicker, especially in the case of the 13th Panzer, who was down to 7% and still only received 16 tons.

Something seems off.


< Message edited by MechFO -- 1/11/2011 1:32:25 AM >

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Post #: 31
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/11/2011 4:21:20 AM   
Repsol

 

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Helpless, THANKS !

This helps alot !

I think the MANUAL might need some corrections though...four things comes to mind:

pg 115. (5.4.26.3) TURN SUPPLY DETAIL (NON-HQ UNITS):

1.
' SUPPLIES RECIEVED (X %) Tons of supplies recieved in each of the two supply delivery sub segments. The percentage is the total amount
of supplies recieved against required supplies.'

maybe change that to something like:

SUPPLIES RECIEVED (X %) Tons of supplies recieved in each of the two supply delivery sub segments. The percentage is the supply level in
unit befor recieving any supply.

2.
' FUEL RECIEVED (X %) Tons of fuel recieved in each of the two supply delivery sub segments. The percentage is the total amount
of fuel recieved against required fuel.'

maybe change that to something like:

FUEL RECIEVED (X %) Tons of fuel recieved in each of the two supply delivery sub segments. The percentage is the fuel level in
unit befor recieving any fuel.

pg 114. (5.4.26.2) TURN SUPPLY DETAIL (HQ UNITS):

3.
'HQ SUPPLY %: The percentage of required supplies for attached units that the HQ was able to deliver in each of the two supply delivery sub-segments.'

maybe change that to something like:

The percentage of supplies the HQ have in its supply dumps to be able to deliver 100 % of needed supplies to its attached units.

pg 115. (5.4.26.2) TURN SUPPLY DETAIL (HQ UNITS):

4.
'HQ FUEL %: The percentage of required fuel for attached units that the HQ was able to deliver in each of the two supply delivery sub-segments.'

maybe change that to something like:

The percentage of fuel the HQ have in its fuel dumps to be able to deliver 100 % of needed fuel to its attached units.


Again, thanks for your HELP, (HELPLESS)










(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 32
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/11/2011 5:53:11 AM   
heliodorus04


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Given what MechFO has shown in screen shots, I'm really hard pressed to understand what's going on with an HQ building massive supply dumps (which it will be punished for having once it comes time to move and the HQ draws vehicles from the Motor Pool) and units in an ideal operational resupply condition are not drawing supplies.

I hope someone with knowledge can explain this soon.

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Post #: 33
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/11/2011 8:33:29 AM   
Repsol

 

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heliodorus04...

I'm just guessing now...The HQ will almost never recieve 100 % of the corps needed supply for the turn...
It therefore can not deliver supply to its attached units to reach 100 %...Maybe its tries to save a part of the
dumps to be able to deliver a higher degree of supply to its attached units than the HQ itself is recieving/turn...

Like this:

If the HQ only recieves 48 % of corps needed supply/turn then it has 2 options:

1. deliver all its dumps in one or two turns to up the attached units as much as it can and then not be able to
supply the attached units any higher than 48 % for the rest of the game..

2. Spread out the delivery of dumps during amny more turns but not as much each turn....To get the attached units up to
maybe...T1 60% supply, T2 62 %, T3 59 %, T4 60 %, T5 58 %......T14 60 %

This would be my guess...but a agree with you that it is difficult to understand just how this works...

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Post #: 34
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/11/2011 9:19:41 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

Identical consumption, but over 30% difference in supply received, and huge difference to divisions 5-6 hexes away, even though off rail MP is similar and both HQ's have ample dumps.


There is no huge difference:

- Supply and ammo received as single entity. So you should add them both to compare 74+42=116 vs 102+35=137.
- 57th ID had less supplies on hand and was asking more 43% vs 57%. At the same time there was more ammo need for the 168th ID so it got more ammo and less supplies.
- Another small factor that supplies are stores in lbs at unit level and then converting to tons, so 1 -> 2000-3999. Sometimes rounding can bring quite a big discrepancy especially when dealing with low volumes.

So far I see nothing off from those screenshots. Of cause they provide just partial situation, so if you suspect something is wrong post it on tech forum with saves.

< Message edited by Helpless -- 1/11/2011 9:41:25 AM >


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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 12:43:31 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Identical consumption, but over 30% difference in supply received, and huge difference to divisions 5-6 hexes away, even though off rail MP is similar and both HQ's have ample dumps.


There is no huge difference:

- Supply and ammo received as single entity. So you should add them both to compare 74+42=116 vs 102+35=137.
- 57th ID had less supplies on hand and was asking more 43% vs 57%. At the same time there was more ammo need for the 168th ID so it got more ammo and less supplies.
- Another small factor that supplies are stores in lbs at unit level and then converting to tons, so 1 -> 2000-3999. Sometimes rounding can bring quite a big discrepancy especially when dealing with low volumes.

So far I see nothing off from those screenshots. Of cause they provide just partial situation, so if you suspect something is wrong post it on tech forum with saves.


Lets break it down.

AIUI isn't it supposed to work as follows:

- Units demand enough to bring all stockpiles up to 100% (pre consumption,but then units can never be at 100%?)

- HQ tries to draw the aggregate demand of all attached units including SU's from nearest source, delivery is modified by off Rail MP and Axis Rail Modifier, if excess vehicles are available in vehicle pool, HQ will get additional supply

- if HQ can not draw enough to cover entire demand, it's gives up it's dumps to cover the shortfall to it's units

- final supply delivered from HQ is determined by how much the HQ could draw, how many dumps were available to cover the shortfall and what the unit/HQ MP distance is + the vehicle modifier of the unit

------

Now according to the screenshots:

Inf Div 57

Total demand to HQ was: 0.57*224 + .11*526 = 185 -----> delivery of total 137 ca. 74%

Inf Div 168

Total demand to HQ was: 0.43*216 + .14*506 = 163 -----> delivery of total 116 ca. 71%


If my sums are correct, pretty close % wise, so I agree the units are getting approx the same.

What I still don't get is why their deliveries are 25% to 30% short even though the HQ was, by any mesure, ample dumps. It is as if Dumps aren't being released.


I also don't understand why Korps in similare circumstances have such dissimilar deliveries:

Lets look at Post 26-27:

ample dumps, off Rail MP a bit more than the above example

Div 299 @40%/106% demand is 0.6*174 = 104 -----> delivery of 42 ca. 40%
Div 125 @41%/96% demand is 0.59*211 + 0.04*518= 145 -----> delivery of 26 ca. 18%
Div 111 @58%/71% demand is 0.42*168 + 0.29*448= 200 -----> delivery of 66 ca. 33%

This is an HQ which had hundreds of dumps, and increased it's No. of dumps the next turn, yet units seem to be only be receiving 20-40% of requested amount. Off Rail MP and Axis Supply modifier aren't that bad, and even if those factors are responsible, Dumps should be making up the difference.

What factor am I missing?

< Message edited by MechFO -- 1/12/2011 12:46:06 PM >

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Post #: 36
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 1:53:14 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

- if HQ can not draw enough to cover entire demand, it's gives up it's dumps to cover the shortfall to it's units


No, HQ tries to draw = demands - current dumps in HQ. HQ is supplying units from the dumps only, the supplies it draws goes to the dumps.


quote:

I also don't understand why Korps in similare circumstances have such dissimilar deliveries:

Lets look at Post 26-27:

ample dumps, off Rail MP a bit more than the above example

Div 299 @40%/106% demand is 0.6*174 = 104 -----> delivery of 42 ca. 40%
Div 125 @41%/96% demand is 0.59*211 + 0.04*518= 145 -----> delivery of 26 ca. 18%
Div 111 @58%/71% demand is 0.42*168 + 0.29*448= 200 -----> delivery of 66 ca. 33%

This is an HQ which had hundreds of dumps, and increased it's No. of dumps the next turn, yet units seem to be only be receiving 20-40% of requested amount. Off Rail MP and Axis Supply modifier aren't that bad, and even if those factors are responsible, Dumps should be making up the difference.

What factor am I missing?


Sorry, it is very hard for me to follow the math here, based on very limited information from screenshots. Please post it on the tech forum with the save.

_____________________________

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 2:51:57 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

- if HQ can not draw enough to cover entire demand, it's gives up it's dumps to cover the shortfall to it's units


No, HQ tries to draw = demands - current dumps in HQ. HQ is supplying units from the dumps only, the supplies it draws goes to the dumps.



So,


T1: dumps are 100, total demand is 60, then it will draw 0 while it passes on the 60 from it's dumps?

T2: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while it passes on 40 to it's units?

T3: dumps are 20, demand is 60, draw will be 40 while 20 goes to units?

T3: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while 40 goes to units?

and so forth?

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 3:03:30 PM   
raizer

 

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Keep this thread going please

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 3:37:55 PM   
BigAnorak


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There is a date and distance modifier that may not be shown on the supply screen - one of the developers will have to confirm whether it is or isn't. As it only applies to 1941, I have assumed that it is applied "off screen" but we all not what "assume" did.

From the manual.

20.4.3.2. AXIS RAIL SUPPLY MODIFIER
There is a modifier that is applied to the delivery of supply to Axis HQ units and combat
units based on the date and the location of the unit that is tracing supply. The modifier, once
calculated, is multiplied times the supplies and fuel being delivered to the unit. The modifier is
equal to ((168 + (5 times the number of months from December 1941, but not to be a negative
number)/weather adjustment) - x coordinate of unit)) + ((y coordinate of unit -69)/2))/100. This
modifier can never be less than .33 or greater than 1.0. The weather adjustment is equal to
1 in clear weather, 2 in mud or snow, and 3 in blizzard. So as an example, A unit in Smolensk
(X86, Y51)) in August 1941 in clear weather will have its fuel/supplies deliveries multiplied
by ((168+((0)/1)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or 73/100 or .73. So due to this rule, the delivery
of supplies and fuel to the unit in Smolensk would be reduced to only 73 percent of what
they otherwise would have been. In March 1942 in snow weather, the same unit would be
reduced by ((168+ (3x5)/2)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or .80. This modifier is in addition to other
reductions. This modifier never applies to any unit in a hex with a Y coordinate less than 12.

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 1/12/2011 3:38:32 PM >


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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 4:22:47 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

There is a date and distance modifier that may not be shown on the supply screen - one of the developers will have to confirm whether it is or isn't. As it only applies to 1941, I have assumed that it is applied "off screen" but we all not what "assume" did.

From the manual.

20.4.3.2. AXIS RAIL SUPPLY MODIFIER
There is a modifier that is applied to the delivery of supply to Axis HQ units and combat
units based on the date and the location of the unit that is tracing supply. The modifier, once
calculated, is multiplied times the supplies and fuel being delivered to the unit. The modifier is
equal to ((168 + (5 times the number of months from December 1941, but not to be a negative
number)/weather adjustment) - x coordinate of unit)) + ((y coordinate of unit -69)/2))/100. This
modifier can never be less than .33 or greater than 1.0. The weather adjustment is equal to
1 in clear weather, 2 in mud or snow, and 3 in blizzard. So as an example, A unit in Smolensk
(X86, Y51)) in August 1941 in clear weather will have its fuel/supplies deliveries multiplied
by ((168+((0)/1)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or 73/100 or .73. So due to this rule, the delivery
of supplies and fuel to the unit in Smolensk would be reduced to only 73 percent of what
they otherwise would have been. In March 1942 in snow weather, the same unit would be
reduced by ((168+ (3x5)/2)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or .80. This modifier is in addition to other
reductions. This modifier never applies to any unit in a hex with a Y coordinate less than 12.


I'm aware of this, however from the logic of the supply system, this should be decreasing the supply draw of the HQ, not the delivery to the units. Also, isn't this covered by the "Axis Rail Supply" modifier? At least the shown modifier is what one would expect for those coordinates.

< Message edited by MechFO -- 1/12/2011 4:29:16 PM >

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 4:45:18 PM   
MemoryLeak


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I would love to buy and play this simulation. i have been reading all of the threads and it seems like a terrific product. But there is no way in heck, that I would ever be able to grasp the supply system. And that would be a frustration I don't need. If someone could come up with some sort of usable, comprehensible cheat-sheet a human could use on how to figure this out it would be very useful. I will keep reading and hoping...

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 7:31:34 PM   
Repsol

 

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'If someone could come up with some sort of usable, comprehensible cheat-sheet a human could use on how to figure this out it would be very useful. I will keep reading and hoping... '

MemoryLeak...
I to find it complicated...We get good help here at the forum and more and more become clear...But since there are a lot to learn and the manual may not
be 100 % complete in describing all theese things i to would be very greatful for a BOOT CAMP type of instructionbook on SUPPLY and PRODUCTION...



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Post #: 43
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 7:33:46 PM   
bjmorgan


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Memory Leak,

It ain't that complicated. Well, maybe what I should say is that it IS that complicated, but if you keep your units close to the HQ, and keep the HQ in supply by distance from the railheads, you can enjoy the game immensly. Once you learn the basic mechanics of the movement/combat system, then you can begin to get in to more of the details.

Some on these boards like to count every bean and cigarette that is on a truck somwhere and the game comes close to allowing that to happen, but it's not really necessary to be that detailed to have tons of fun. I get in to that level only when I detect a particular problem with one or more units and need to figure out how to get two extra packs of smokes to them.

One day, managing to that detail might increase your fun, but it's not essential when you're learning the game.

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Post #: 44
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 7:59:02 PM   
MemoryLeak


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Repsol and Bjmorgan, thank you. I have always had trouble comprehending supply in these games. I tried to reconcile the numbers and they just didn't add up. I could never tell if I had sufficient supply or if I was in serious trouble. I have WiTP and some of the competition's games and it seems like the labels they use change from form to form. So it is hard to relate what you are seeing to what they are trying to tell you.
At any rate, I would like to try this game and if what you say would work for me, as far as not delving too depely into supply, then I could concentrate on tactics. It would be very useful if they were consistent in labeling fields(or calculations) from one form to another.
Another thing that worries me is rail repair. That also sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
Thanks again.

_____________________________

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USS Long Beach CGN-9
RM2 1969-1973

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Post #: 45
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 8:09:13 PM   
el hefe


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Let me put it to you this way. I love this game and I play it a lot. I am not a micromanager and I absolutely do not get wound up trying to figure out formulas. I don't even mess with them. I look at my units and they are short on supply. I don't spend hours figuring out how to maximize my supply situation. I take a quick look at the map and accept that my units are well ahead of the railhead and make adjustments.

Rail repair is as simple as having four main rail repair units. I manually move and repair with these four units on the main supply routes. I don't get wound up about all of the dozens of construction battalions that are run by the AI. Let them do their own thing. I concentrate on the operations without getting tied down to the minutae. I got better things to do than try to figure out how the AI calculates x tonnage of supply.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

Repsol and Bjmorgan, thank you. I have always had trouble comprehending supply in these games. I tried to reconcile the numbers and they just didn't add up. I could never tell if I had sufficient supply or if I was in serious trouble. I have WiTP and some of the competition's games and it seems like the labels they use change from form to form. So it is hard to relate what you are seeing to what they are trying to tell you.
At any rate, I would like to try this game and if what you say would work for me, as far as not delving too depely into supply, then I could concentrate on tactics. It would be very useful if they were consistent in labeling fields(or calculations) from one form to another.
Another thing that worries me is rail repair. That also sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
Thanks again.



_____________________________

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 8:11:55 PM   
Zort

 

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Rail repair is easy. You have 5 units that you have control of. Others are sent out by the HQ which are cleaning up the rear areas. Not as smart as probably in history but those units shouldn't be used up front with the 5 you have. One recommendation has been just to get rid of those units that you can't control but have the hexes behind the main lines be repaired. Probably not having them is smart since then the players won't see them and want to use them other places.

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 8:19:26 PM   
MemoryLeak


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From: Woodland, CA USA
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Okay I will remember all of that. Actually I have been printing a lot of the posts so that I can refer back to them. They seem a lot easier to understand than the manual. And it has been my experience that the people on Matrix forums have always been very helpful.

_____________________________

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 9:46:18 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

Another issue that's missing from the supply mechanics is prioritisation, there be a mechanism that allows the player to push supply towards HQ and combat units that have a greater need depending tasks. Hq units should assign low, medium or high priority designations to regulate the flow of supplies.


That would certainly be handy. Unless refit already handles that for you. But i think that just priorities replacements not supply.

(in reply to BASB)
Post #: 49
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 9:51:59 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3344
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

how much supply do units actually try to draw?


How do they try to build up depleted unit stocks. I have Pz/Mot units near Kiev with an off-rail MP of 25, stationary for 3 turns, ample HQ dumps (150+S, 100+F), but hardly recovering any of their supply stockpile. Current needs are JUST being met with sometimes a small surplus going to unit stocks. The HQ is depleting it's Supply Dumps, but very slowly (150->100 in 3 turn).

Another example has adjacent Inf Divs with the same HQ, 190 S dumps, getting supply deliveries as divergent as 30 and 50. (Off rail MP 30)



Oops didn't see bigA posted this. As i answer inline while reading a thread.

MechFO this tripped me up as a german player too maybe it will help you.

20.4.3.2. AXIS RAIL SUPPLY MODIFIER
There is a modifier that is applied to the delivery of supply to Axis HQ units and combat
units based on the date and the location of the unit that is tracing supply. The modifier, once
calculated, is multiplied times the supplies and fuel being delivered to the unit. The modifier is
equal to ((168 + (5 times the number of months from December 1941, but not to be a negative
number)/weather adjustment) - x coordinate of unit)) + ((y coordinate of unit -69)/2))/100. This
modifier can never be less than .33 or greater than 1.0. The weather adjustment is equal to
1 in clear weather, 2 in mud or snow, and 3 in blizzard. So as an example, A unit in Smolensk
(X86, Y51)) in August 1941 in clear weather will have its fuel/supplies deliveries multiplied
by ((168+((0)/1)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or 73/100 or .73. So due to this rule, the delivery
of supplies and fuel to the unit in Smolensk would be reduced to only 73 percent of what
they otherwise would have been. In March 1942 in snow weather, the same unit would be
reduced by ((168+ (3x5)/2)-86)) + ((51-69/2))/100 or .80. This modifier is in addition to other
reductions. This modifier never applies to any unit in a hex with a Y coordinate less than 12.


< Message edited by bwheatley -- 1/12/2011 10:09:22 PM >

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 50
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/12/2011 11:04:40 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

T1: dumps are 100, total demand is 60, then it will draw 0 while it passes on the 60 from it's dumps?

T2: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while it passes on 40 to it's units?

T3: dumps are 20, demand is 60, draw will be 40 while 20 goes to units?

T3: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while 40 goes to units?


Hq will try to send all the supplies requested.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 51
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 12:34:39 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

Another issue that's missing from the supply mechanics is prioritisation, there be a mechanism that allows the player to push supply towards HQ and combat units that have a greater need depending tasks. Hq units should assign low, medium or high priority designations to regulate the flow of supplies.


That would certainly be handy. Unless refit already handles that for you. But i think that just priorities replacements not supply.


"HQ Buildup" simulates supply prioritization. Look it up in the manual p.271

Simply put, you can use this function to guarantee maximum MP by immediate resupply of HQ and all subbordinates but overall supply for whole army is reduced by 1-2% for about two months as several vehicles will be damaged.



< Message edited by jomni -- 1/13/2011 12:48:59 AM >

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RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 5:37:02 AM   
Repsol

 

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Hello...

Helpless
'Hq will try to send all the supplies requested'
'No, HQ tries to draw = demands - current dumps in HQ. HQ is supplying units from the dumps only, the supplies it draws goes to the dumps.'



As i understand MechFOs example...One question comes to mind:
Does the HQs recieve their reguested supplies (phase 2 (rail)) before the combat units (phase 1) try to draw their needed supplies from the HQs dumps ?

If not...The result would be like in MechFOs example...Is this how it works ?


T1: dumps are 100, total demand is 60, then it will draw 0 while it passes on the 60 from it's dumps?

- The HQ have enough supply in its dumps to meet its attached units needs and will draw nothing and deliver 60 tons from its dumps...

T2: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while it passes on 40 to it's units?

- In T1 the HQ delivered needed 60 tons to its units and now have 40 tons left...20 tons short...therefore it tries to draw 20 tons from railhead
(phase2) But if supplyphase 1 happens first then that will not arrive until after the attached units have drawn their supplies from the dumps (phase1)
and will only be able to deliver 40 tons as in this example by MechFO...and so on....

T3: dumps are 20, demand is 60, draw will be 40 while 20 goes to units?

T3: dumps are 40, demand is 60, draw will be 20 while 40 goes to units?

Thanks !


(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 53
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 5:59:24 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 1974
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From: Rapid City SD
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Since war is logistics problem most of all this is a good thread.  I'm having a hard time understanding all of it but the whole supply information provided should be trimmed down and broken down into percentages.  That is something most people can understand and work with versus all these numbers that have an abstract meaning to those who don't read deep into them.  Is this something that the developers might look into for us common folk who do care about logistics.

(in reply to Repsol)
Post #: 54
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 6:01:27 AM   
jomni


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+1
I am "common folk" and I don't read the supply report because I can't make anything out of it. :)
I care about logistics but not the exact numbers.

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 55
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 6:28:24 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 5854
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
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I stopped tring to figure out how Gary thinks, that guy is on an entire different plane of thinking...

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
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(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 56
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 6:32:16 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 1974
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

I stopped tring to figure out how Gary thinks, that guy is on an entire different plane of thinking...

Not to knock Gary or Joel, but one or two people understanding that deep levels of programming might be prone to make an error that if no one else can understand who is there to help figure it out in the end? I love the game, and yeah I do what Trey says and just get on with it as much as I can. But this should be something that should be looked at by developers to help the poor common masses understand much better.

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 57
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 6:37:08 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 5854
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
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Well Pavel is another key here now. He's another lofty thinker, hard to see how they could convey to us those thoughts, another 500 pages. I'm a smart guy, and they dwarf me...

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Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha Tester

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 58
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 9:18:26 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 11795
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quote:

As i understand MechFOs example...One question comes to mind:
Does the HQs recieve their reguested supplies (phase 2 (rail)) before the combat units (phase 1) try to draw their needed supplies from the HQs dumps ?

If not...The result would be like in MechFOs example...Is this how it works ?


No to both. HQ tries to pull everything and tries to give everything on Phase 1, but if it is not possible it will pull more to the dumps in Phase 2. The amount which goes to the unit doesn't depend directly from the amount which was drawn in Phase 1.



_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

(in reply to Repsol)
Post #: 59
RE: SUPPLY difficult to understand - 1/13/2011 3:18:18 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2255
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

Let me put it to you this way. I love this game and I play it a lot. I am not a micromanager and I absolutely do not get wound up trying to figure out formulas. I don't even mess with them. I look at my units and they are short on supply. I don't spend hours figuring out how to maximize my supply situation. I take a quick look at the map and accept that my units are well ahead of the railhead and make adjustments.

Rail repair is as simple as having four main rail repair units. I manually move and repair with these four units on the main supply routes. I don't get wound up about all of the dozens of construction battalions that are run by the AI. Let them do their own thing. I concentrate on the operations without getting tied down to the minutae. I got better things to do than try to figure out how the AI calculates x tonnage of supply.

Trey





Exactly the way I play it. My mind goes blank when I see supply formulas, so I don't pay much attention to the *exact formulas* while at the same time I pay a lot of attention to the actual supply percentages of the units. And I discovered this from playing other games, you can easily master this game... without ever understanding the underlying mechanisms of supply 100%.
You certainly do not need to understand this supply mechanism 100% before you can play this game. I see it the other way around, you *will* get to know the supply factors involved, once you've played the game ( a lot). Then you just know what to expect from your units in different situations, and how it will effect their supply percentages.

The way I do it now (for the time being, this might change). Build RailRoad as fast as possible on the main lines of advance, HQ's as close to their units as possible, keep an eye for the distances (hex and motion points to Railhead) and supply levels of the units. Easy, simple. Heck if it would've been more difficult... I probably would have shelved it already.

(in reply to el hefe)
Post #: 60
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