Matrix Games Forums

Happy Easter!Battle Academy is now available on SteamPlayers compare Ageods Civil War to Civil War IIDeal of the week - An updated War in the East goes half Price!Sign up for the Qvadriga beta for iPad and Android!Come and say hi at Pax and SaluteLegends of War goes on sale!Piercing Fortress Europa Gets UpdatedBattle Academy Mega Pack is now availableClose Combat: Gateway to Caen Teaser Trailer
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

What is the benefit of going south as the Axis?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 1:35:02 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 1973
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline
Is there any benefit for going the southern route as the Axis? It seems that playing any Soviet player there will be no factories to capture and only minimal cities to capture to take way manpower. I haven't tried the Soviets yet so maybe I could answer my own questions if I did but I just can't bring myself to become a "Communist" yet...I guess its all those years of service against Communism that have me brain washed. I hear of this 'oil' option but how far do you have to push to reach the goal?
Post #: 1
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 1:55:10 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2767
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
To divert forces from the North?

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 2
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 2:03:50 AM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 6239
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
Lots and lots of population centers. Even if they get the factories out, they'll lose the manpower and also the resources. Between Karkhov and the Donetz, there's a lot of cities down here.

There's also a lot of victory points down here between all those cities.

Clear terrain. Your panzers can run wild down here. There is no real good natural line of defense between the Dnepr and Don. But logistics will be challenging.

And if you set up for it, you can increase your initial bag of prisoners by pocketing large chunks of southwestern front.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/6/2011 2:04:45 AM >


_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 3
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 2:57:56 AM   
ool


Posts: 397
Joined: 12/25/2007
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
Eventually Baku and 90% of the Russian source of oil.

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 4
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 8:38:30 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline
Going to the southeast is bad for the defender and attacker; wide open spaces hard to fend, and three potential directions for the Axis: east, south east, south.  That's a lot of miles/hexes to hold in one area while attacking in another direction.

(in reply to ool)
Post #: 5
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 9:00:33 AM   
ool


Posts: 397
Joined: 12/25/2007
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
You are right about the difficulties. However the reward is also great, if you survive! Need the guts of a river boat gambler to pull this off.

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 6
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 1:08:11 PM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4671
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
After seeing how Leningrad has toughened up, I am considering a "Southern Blitz" strategy, which is opposite to my normal strategy of Leningrad in 41, Moscow in 42 and Stalingrad/Baku in 1943.

I think the steppes will make pocketing large chunks of the Red Army much easier, and if I can punch through the Crimea to Krasnador(sp?) where there is some Oil, I will have a good jumping off platform for Baku in the summer of 1942. Kharkov, the Donbas cities and Rostov do take out a good chunk of population and industry.



_____________________________

(old version)It's only a game
(new version)Gary Grigsby's War in the East is not a game - it is a way of life!

War in the East Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to ool)
Post #: 7
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 3:55:59 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1402
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Newb here:  Just curious for GCs, how are oil fields factored into the game?  Are they THAT worthwhile to capture in terms of improving your operational situation?

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 8
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 4:04:04 PM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4671
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
You would not see an instant difference, but as I noted in another thread the side that can produce the most MP's for it's units will be able to attack more and advance more over the course of 200+turns and therefore be more likely to win. So, if the Soviets have 30% less Oil/Fuel than they had historically, then their units will get less MPs to attack and advance with.

_____________________________

(old version)It's only a game
(new version)Gary Grigsby's War in the East is not a game - it is a way of life!

War in the East Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 9
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 4:46:45 PM   
GordianKnot


Posts: 320
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
@BigAnorak:

So just to clarify, are you saying that capturing the oil fields will eventually lead to lower MP's across the board for all Soviet forces?

Or just air and motorized?


(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 10
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 8:54:05 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7166
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
Mostly air and motorized, as Soviet infantry unit vehicle usage is minimal by Western standards. However, Tank and mechanized corps running out of gas isn't a good situation for the Soviets, just like Axis mobile units running out of gas is bad for them.

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to GordianKnot)
Post #: 11
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 9:10:06 PM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4671
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
One of my boring from the Manual posts - but anything that slows down a mechanised or tank Army in 1943 is a good thing in my book. If the SU is prevented from making 3 extra attacks and advances per turn, over the course of a full campaign is the difference in the whole front line being 5 hexes further East - that could make the difference between holding or not holding Berlin. Of course you can't deprive him of the fuel for the whole campaign, but I am just trying to illustrate the importance of MPs.

From the manual.

1. Start with base MPs (14.1.1)
2. Calculate average fatigue of the unit based on the number and
fatigue of each type of ground element. Reduce the number of
MP’s by the average fatigue divided by ten, rounded down.
3. Check for leader initiative. If all leaders in the chain of command fail the
initiative check, then multiply MPs remaining by 80 percent, rounding down.
4. Check for leader admin. If all leaders in chain of command fail
the admin check, then multiply MPs remaining by 80 percent,
rounding down. Note that units that did not move in the previous
turn will automatically pass their next turn’s admin check.
5. Determine if fuel (motorized unit) or supplies (non-motorized unit) is
sufficient to enable the unit to use the remaining MPs it has. For example,
if a motorized unit has only 50 percent of its base MPs remaining after
steps 1 through 4, it will only require 50 percent of fuel needed. If fuel
on hand is 60 percent of what the unit needs to use its remaining MPs,
then it can only move 60 percent of those MPs, rounded down.
6. If a non-motorized unit, reset the unit’s MPs to six if determined to be lower
than six. If a motorized unit with zero MPs, reset the unit’s MPs to one.
7. If the movement point allowance is greater than 16 and the unit is
motorized, check to see if the vehicle shortage penalty applies. This penalty
creates a maximum number of MPs the unit may have during the turn.
For motorized units the maximum is equal to 16 + (34 * (vehicles in unit/
vehicles required by unit. The maximum will never be less than 16.

As an example of the above rules, a motorized Axis unit that has 80 percent of its required
vehicles will start with a base MP of 50. If average fatigue were 22, then the unit MP would be
reduced by 2 to 48. If all the leaders in its chain of command failed their initiative and admin
checks, the unit’s MPs would be reduced first to 38 and then to 30. As 30 is 60 percent of the
base MP of 50, the unit would need at least 60 percent of required supplies in order to move
30 MPs; if it had only 45 percent of its supply needs, its MPs would be lowered to 22. Since
the unit has 80 percent of its vehicles, it has a maximum of 16 + (34*.8) or 43 MPs. Since the
unit has only 22 MP, it is not affected further by the vehicle shortage. Had the unit had 100
percent of its fuel and had passed the leader and admin checks, instead of having 48 MPs the
unit would be reduced to 43 MPs

_____________________________

(old version)It's only a game
(new version)Gary Grigsby's War in the East is not a game - it is a way of life!

War in the East Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 12
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/6/2011 11:17:38 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1402
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
Can I have a simpler heuristic, please!  

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 13
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/7/2011 12:09:43 AM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4671
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
Oil good; No Oil Bad.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 14
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/7/2011 12:13:27 AM   
comsolut

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 5/30/2004
Status: offline
Yup. That sums it up.

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 15
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/7/2011 1:26:00 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 1973
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Oil good; No Oil Bad.


But how long can the region be held? I guess that depends on a lot of factors but having your armee being cut off near Rostov must surely be terrifying prospect.

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 16
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/7/2011 4:03:03 AM   
Feltan


Posts: 839
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC
...I guess its all those years of service against Communism that have me brain washed....


You and me both, but becoming a National Socialist because you hate communism is glorifying a distinction with little real difference.

Regards,
Feltan


(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 17
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/7/2011 10:04:54 AM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4671
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
quote:

But how long can the region be held? I guess that depends on a lot of factors but having your armee being cut off near Rostov must surely be terrifying prospect.


You are right, there are a lot of factors, but isn't it why we play these games- to get answers to those questions? If the Axis get Baku and can exert some control of that single rail line on the right bank of the Volga, I think the SU would have a hard job getting Baku back. The next question that would need to be answered would be how quickly the Soviets could gain sufficient strength to get across the Don and threaten Rostov. Not repeating Stalingrad would give 20 "extra" divisions to hold the Don.

I'm working on plans to give it a go - I'm trying to figure out how far AGN and AGC would have to advance and what resources they would have to give to AGS to make it possible.

_____________________________

(old version)It's only a game
(new version)Gary Grigsby's War in the East is not a game - it is a way of life!

War in the East Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to Feltan)
Post #: 18
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/7/2011 10:12:45 AM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 1973
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

But how long can the region be held? I guess that depends on a lot of factors but having your armee being cut off near Rostov must surely be terrifying prospect.


You are right, there are a lot of factors, but isn't it why we play these games- to get answers to those questions? If the Axis get Baku and can exert some control of that single rail line on the right bank of the Volga, I think the SU would have a hard job getting Baku back. The next question that would need to be answered would be how quickly the Soviets could gain sufficient strength to get across the Don and threaten Rostov. Not repeating Stalingrad would give 20 "extra" divisions to hold the Don.

I'm working on plans to give it a go - I'm trying to figure out how far AGN and AGC would have to advance and what resources they would have to give to AGS to make it possible.


I guess there is always the Crimean to evac you u need to. Are you playing against the AI in your plans to take Baku? I think that will be my next objective in 43, but that late in the war may be to late at all.

(in reply to BigAnorak)
Post #: 19
RE: What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? - 1/7/2011 10:16:40 AM   
BigAnorak


Posts: 4671
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline
I will test it on the AI first, and hope my next PBEM opponent doesn't read this!

_____________________________

(old version)It's only a game
(new version)Gary Grigsby's War in the East is not a game - it is a way of life!

War in the East Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 20
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> What is the benefit of going south as the Axis? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.109