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Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ?

 
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Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/25/2010 11:23:11 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 9/24/2010
From: Westfalen
Status: offline 		Noticed ships of DD class are always sank by just 1 torp hit. I mean Jap torps here mostly as I cannot be sure about my sinking (FOW).

Is this historicly correct ? There can be also hits on a small ship that does not sink it, can´t there ?
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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/25/2010 11:29:09 PM   
witpqs

 

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From: Argleton
Status: offline 		AFAIK it is historically correct, and (even though it seems that way) it does not happen 100% of the time. Sometimes a DD will survive a torpedo hit. BTW, bigger torpedoes (Long Lances that IJN DD's carry) result in even less chance of survival.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/25/2010 11:38:21 PM   
wdolson

 

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Status: offline 		The only times I recall reading of a DD getting hit by a torpedo and surviving was when they were hit in the bow.  The DD lost the bow but was able to limp home.  A hit anywhere else would break the DDs back.  The explosive force of a torpedo goes all the way through the ship ripping out both sides.  Kind of hard to stay afloat when that happens.

Bill


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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:17:04 AM   
trojan


Posts: 238
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: bendigo, Victoria, Australia
Status: offline 		HMS Javelin a British destroyer got hit by two torps, one blew off the bow the other the stern. Halved it length (155 feet left out of 360 feet) but survived to be rebuilt


I believe this is the only time a destroyer hit by more than 1 torpedo survived

http://www.hms-javelin.co.uk/hms-javelin-gallery-one.htm

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:23:55 AM   
bigred


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Status: offline 		interesting, and commanded by Mountbatten.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:29:06 AM   
Zebedee


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Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		Slightly tangential, but is there a reason why subs seem to target escorts quite so much? (Not a whine or complaint, just an honest question - it does seem to be a frequesnt occurance, and I'm not sure if it's ahistorical play on my part causing it or an indication that I need to dial back on the aggressiveness ratings of my sub commanders).

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:40:33 AM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

interesting, and commanded by Mountbatten.



Really? He didn't have much luck with DD's , did he? Considering he also lost HMS Kelly....

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:41:11 AM   
AW1Steve


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Status: offline 		USS Kearny did survive a center hit. But not many DD's did.


< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 12/26/2010 12:42:16 AM >

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:54:43 AM   
noguaranteeofsanity


Posts: 257
Joined: 11/24/2009
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zebedee

Slightly tangential, but is there a reason why subs seem to target escorts quite so much? (Not a whine or complaint, just an honest question - it does seem to be a frequesnt occurance, and I'm not sure if it's ahistorical play on my part causing it or an indication that I need to dial back on the aggressiveness ratings of my sub commanders).


I am not exactly sure how it is handled by the code, but believe it is because the escorts are doing their jobs, getting in between the sub and their intended target. The sub cannot get close enough or into position to attack, so instead attacks one of the escorts.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 1:17:56 AM   
Sauvequipeut

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

interesting, and commanded by Mountbatten.



Really? He didn't have much luck with DD's , did he? Considering he also lost HMS Kelly....


Although HMS Kelly did survive a midships torpedo hit with Mountbatten in charge - from an E-boat in the North Sea.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 1:39:08 AM   
CaptDave

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 6/21/2002
From: Federal Way, WA
Status: offline 		As it happens, I toured an old destroyer just a few days ago.  The docent pointed out that the nickname "tin can" was well-deserved, as the hull is only three-eighths of an inch thick.  Thus, if a torpedo hits, it's quite realistic for the ship to sink with a single hit (and there are always exceptions, as others have noted).

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 2:16:55 AM   
maxstrike

 

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Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline 		I recall reading years ago though I can't recall the source material, that DDs were very difficult to sink with air dropped torpedos. The problem was the torps usually ran too deep to contact the hull and passed under the vessel. Air dropped torpedos had their running depth set before take off. Torps that ran deep were less prone to duds and other issues (not sure why the trade-off). Destroyers usually had draughts of 12-15 feet while capital ships usually had 30 foot draughts.

I also recall that setting the run depth for torps below the escorts' draughts was done on purpose so they wouldn't accidentally hit an escort instead of a capital ship that was targeted.

The US ship/sub launched torps also had major problems with this early in the war since they had some torps that ran too deep.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 5:29:46 AM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		DDs were very hard to hit but easy to sink once hit. Works about right in game. I have had a few survive a single hit but not many. When the game was introduced subs (especially Japanese) were just eating up escorts. The devs did a good job of toning it down but now the real problem is that subs target escorts all too much usually missing and wasting torpedoes then to get hammered by the escorts in return-especially after 1943 ends and Japanese escorts get a bit too deadly. The new patch has broken up the torpedo salvos so that subs will not fire a full salvo at a merchie or escort and that helps a bit.



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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 6:57:42 AM   
Puhis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Noticed ships of DD class are always sank by just 1 torp hit. I mean Jap torps here mostly as I cannot be sure about my sinking (FOW).



This is incorrect. At least one of my IJN Kagero-class DD survived one torpedo hit, and managed to limp back home all the way from Aleutians.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:32:22 PM   
herwin

 

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From: Sunderland, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Noticed ships of DD class are always sank by just 1 torp hit. I mean Jap torps here mostly as I cannot be sure about my sinking (FOW).

Is this historicly correct ? There can be also hits on a small ship that does not sink it, can´t there ?


Pretty much. You're talking about a 500-kg warhead, which was big enough to remove the bow or stern or break the ship in two if it hit amidships. Only took two to sink a cruiser and three or four to sink a battleship.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 12:34:11 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

interesting, and commanded by Mountbatten.



Really? He didn't have much luck with DD's , did he? Considering he also lost HMS Kelly....


He had a reputation for overdriving destroyers.

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 1:47:49 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1777
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

DDs were very hard to hit but easy to sink once hit. Works about right in game. I have had a few survive a single hit but not many. When the game was introduced subs (especially Japanese) were just eating up escorts. The devs did a good job of toning it down but now the real problem is that subs target escorts all too much usually missing and wasting torpedoes then to get hammered by the escorts in return-especially after 1943 ends and Japanese escorts get a bit too deadly. The new patch has broken up the torpedo salvos so that subs will not fire a full salvo at a merchie or escort and that helps a bit.




Not only using torpedoes, try to dive bomb a destroyer. I would say a Japanese destroyer has pretty much zero chance to survive either cases base on the damage control situation. I have been fortunate to have 3 bombed by naval search aircraft and not sure whether its 250lb or 500lb bomb hits, but in one random case I had a single bomb hit take my Engine damage to 93% - poor destroyer was walking back to Noumea at 3 knots.

Dive bombing is one thing, torpedoing is another however. I would say trying to hit a Destroyer is one of the hardest targets to hit period.



< Message edited by Misconduct -- 12/26/2010 1:50:28 PM >

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 3:00:07 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 9/24/2010
From: Westfalen
Status: offline 		Ah interesting info here...... and yup DDs are very hard to hit and this is the way it should be.

I am now getting much Fletcher class DDs, will these have better chances of surviving than the older ones ???

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RE: Why do torps ALWAYS SINK DD class ships ? - 12/26/2010 7:21:33 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1777
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From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Ah interesting info here...... and yup DDs are very hard to hit and this is the way it should be.

I am now getting much Fletcher class DDs, will these have better chances of surviving than the older ones ???



Yeah, Fletchers have some armor, I would say that does protect somewhat, however Its not really enough to stop a decent bomb hit or torpedo, but you do have allied damage control, so its better period then anything Japanese have.

I took a single torpedo hit in my photo above, I am guessing I blew the back end off since the engine damage is 83% (down from 92) however I have yet to figure out why there is hardly any sys or flooding damage.

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