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Quirks discovered... but are they bugs?

 
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Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 3:37:22 PM   
Davekhps

 

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1. I saw in another thread there's a bug about air units not reconstituting in the national reserve. That's unfortunate as during the mud turns in 1941 I rotated about 2/3rds of the Axis air force into the NR in order to reconstitute for the spring, figuring they wouldn't be all that valuable come winter. Oh well.

How is the NR *supposed* to work?

2. Leaders. I know others are worried about generals dying. I haven't seen that many (actually, *any*) killed so far in my CG so far. (BTW, if I missed a death when it was first reported in the turn it happened, where do I go later in the game to see the list of generals who didn't make it?).

But dismissals, however, are rampant, generally at least one or more a turn. Are dismissals supposed to be this numerous? What's really frustrating is that I lose many of my best leaders to dismissals, even when they have strong political ratings and very high win/loss ratios (not even 5 to 1 is enough to save them).

What's stranger is that I can then just go right back in and reappoint them on the very same turn as if nothing happened, no delay in reappointment (not for a turn, let alone longer)-- the only penalty is the expenditure of admin points. Is this WAD?

Also, I noticed in the Logistics report that several of my newly appointed generals routinely have their attributes reduced. Why is this? Am I assigning the wrong ranks to the wrong units? Is this only a temporary reduction?

3. Very peculiar event happened to me. I had shortsightedly never gotten around to clearing out the Baltic coast to the west of Tallinn (including the Estonian islands), thinking nothing of it (I was sure I had killed everything there during the initial invasion, I just hadn't reclaimed the territory). For 20+ turns this mattered not, but when winter struck, within a turn or two all of a sudden I've got a veritable swarm of Russian infantry divisions (about 8, IIRC) pouring out of Estonia, all supplied by the port at Wirtsu.

Like I said, that area was empty, at worst it may have had a routed division or two left there, but certainly not 6 or 8.

Is it the case that partisans prefer to generate en masse in hexes left uncontrolled? Or did the Soviets conduct an amphibious landing along the Baltic? *Or*... is this a case of magic movement?
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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 3:46:20 PM   
Flaviusx


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The dismissals are working as designed.

If you forget to occupy the ports on the islands on the Baltic, bad things will eventually happen. No amphibious invasion needed: they can just ship units there and run amok. This is the second report I've seen of this, btw.

The reduction in ratings may be the result of forced promotions of junior leaders into commands they were not originally rated for. Definitely happens with manual promotions (which is why you want to wait until leaders get promoted through battle before trying to assign them to higher level HQs.)

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 4:17:36 PM   
Davekhps

 

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Thanks Flavius. One would think the win/loss ration would protect leaders better than they do, guess not.

WRT reduction in leader ratings, again, do you know if this is permanent, or do they recover?

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 4:23:05 PM   
Flaviusx


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During the blizzard you can expect dismissals to pick up substantially. It will settle down later on though.

Ratings do not recover if lost per se, but leadership ratings can increase through combat experience. However, most of these are capped at 6, and can't increase beyond that. I personally think the cap should be raised to 7 to allow more room for improvement via combat experience.

In practical terms, most German leaders have such good ratings that they'll be at that cap even after the hit.

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 4:23:09 PM   
ComradeP

 

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We're currently debating on the tester forum to what level the Axis win count percentage should be set pre-November 1941 as 10%, the current setting, is essentially too low. It's difficult to do because the win/loss ratio varies heavily between games. The reason you're seeing many dismissals is due to the above. If an Axis leader has 200 wins and 21 losses, he has a negative win/loss ratio. For the Soviets, it's the opposite early on (as in: wins count more and losses matter less).

Many leader ratings can't increase beyond 6, so my guess is that if a rating is reduced from, say, 8 to 7, you won't get back to 8.

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 4:49:18 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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I not sure how much time was put into leaders ratings changes over time. But it would be nice to have insight into this black box of leaders and the ratings.

For example: I have a leader with 200-1 record (6 inf) and he has yet to get any bump in abilities? Now, I think there also needs to be a bit of a requirement of time in position. But, clearly he should be considered by logic for some sort of bump to infantry skill?

How about some special logic to bump a leaders traits (pick one) if they capture a key city? Like Leningrad or Rostov? Should be some mechanics when these types of situations happen? Moral?

Thanks

PS: I've seen 2 bumps to leader abilities in a year. For the most part I'm scared to look at that part of the even log, since it's I'm usually seeing leaders killed. Glad axis has lots of leaders... or would be running out. Oh, good question, what happens if you run out of leaders? Guessing this is not possible?

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 5:01:40 PM   
Flaviusx


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If he is at 6 he's at the cap and won't improve no matter what his win/loss ratio is.

As I said, I think this cap is overly restrictive, but that's a matter of debate.

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 5:20:59 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

If he is at 6 he's at the cap and won't improve no matter what his win/loss ratio is.

As I said, I think this cap is overly restrictive, but that's a matter of debate.



Yeah, I would say 'overly restrictive' for sure. Many commanders gain valuable experience on eastern front after years, and this should be reflected without a max increase ceiling at '6'? Really? Hope this is open for 'debate' again?

Instead of asking who would like a change, curious if anybody would not like to change this?

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 5:21:40 PM   
dwesolick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

If you forget to occupy the ports on the islands on the Baltic, bad things will eventually happen. No amphibious invasion needed: they can just ship units there and run amok. This is the second report I've seen of this, btw.



Sounds a little gamey to me. I've occupied these areas (they are in my control, units passed through them in earlier turns, no enemy in sight) but they aren't actually garrisoned with troops now. Should they be? If so, how much? A regiment per port? Division? Or is simply having them in your control enough? Really want to avoid any nasty surprises as my hands are full as it is!

thanks!

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 5:27:21 PM   
Flaviusx


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Near as I can tell, the Baltic Islands thing only has happened when they are bypassed and the ports don't get flipped over. You don't actually need to garrison them, but control must be established. And you should march through the islands in their entirety to make sure there isn't a unit hiding in a corner somewhere...because that unit may march back and retake the port.

No tester ever saw this happen during testing, btw. The islands were always controlled by our German playtesters and the Soviet AI thus never had an opening to do this.

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 5:33:15 PM   
dwesolick


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Thanks! (one less thing to worry about)

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 6:20:43 PM   
Davekhps

 

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Yup... and that's PRECISELY what happened to me, d'oh!

Which really steams me as I had to shift over an entire rested-and-refitted panzer corps out of my Leningrad defenses right as winter hit in order to deal with the uprising. Not coincidentally, my Leningrad defenses are the first to fall back in the blizzard turns... grrrr!

Oh well. Keeps the game interesting :-)

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/23/2010 6:24:05 PM   
Davekhps

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

We're currently debating on the tester forum to what level the Axis win count percentage should be set pre-November 1941 as 10%, the current setting, is essentially too low. It's difficult to do because the win/loss ratio varies heavily between games. The reason you're seeing many dismissals is due to the above. If an Axis leader has 200 wins and 21 losses, he has a negative win/loss ratio. For the Soviets, it's the opposite early on (as in: wins count more and losses matter less).

Many leader ratings can't increase beyond 6, so my guess is that if a rating is reduced from, say, 8 to 7, you won't get back to 8.


Yeesh, I don't think I like any of that. Anything less than a *10-1* ratio puts a leader at risk for dismissal? I know Hitler was demanding and all, but that's rough.

As for the (non-) recovery of ratings, that's just great, I screwed up a whole slew of good 7 and 8 leaders that way. I figured, "Okay, their ratings are reduced due to new assignments, they'll get back to their old levels once they're comfortable in their new commands, right?" Oops.

I guess I have to be more mindful of my assignments. Things you learn...

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/24/2010 1:26:00 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Davekhps
3. Very peculiar event happened to me. I had shortsightedly never gotten around to clearing out the Baltic coast to the west of Tallinn (including the Estonian islands), thinking nothing of it (I was sure I had killed everything there during the initial invasion, I just hadn't reclaimed the territory). For 20+ turns this mattered not, but when winter struck, within a turn or two all of a sudden I've got a veritable swarm of Russian infantry divisions (about 8, IIRC) pouring out of Estonia, all supplied by the port at Wirtsu.

Like I said, that area was empty, at worst it may have had a routed division or two left there, but certainly not 6 or 8.


A common mistake. There is a port somewhere in those little towns and if you don't control it, the Russians will be kept supplied and will not disintegrate. Might even ship some reinforcements there.

< Message edited by jomni -- 12/24/2010 3:36:24 AM >

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RE: Quirks discovered... but are they bugs? - 12/24/2010 4:40:54 AM   
randallw

 

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For a full list of leaders use the c key, known as the commander's key.  It will show their ultimate fate, though it may not give details on which turn it happened.

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