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Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues

 
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Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 10:03:31 AM   
vinnie71

 

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Instead of starting multiple threads, I just put all my eggs (questions) in one basket....

I'm still a bit hazy about rebuilding Axis units. Which Axis units are rebuilt following their destruction from the following:

German divisions and HQs
German support units
Axis allied divisions and HQs
Axis allied support units

Regarding '41 winter and the Axis. I have the bulk of my divisions heavily damaged due to weather exposure. Yet I'm also getting the first To&e upgrade at the same time (January/February of '42). Yet in the pools all of a sudden I have an influx of rifle squads etc. Where do they come from? Are they the damaged units coming back to full strength? or are they a hard coded reinforcement?

Finally about Axis exports. Are the planes and tanks exported from Germany and Italy hardcoded or do they vary according to what is available in the pools?
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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 11:55:18 AM   
karonagames


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German Divisons and HQs fully rebuildable
Support units yes, but artillery can be a drain on production - I think I will tend to disband them if they get destroyed.

No Axis Allied units of any type are re-buildable.

Re 41 winter. The first winter rules "damage" many elements that get repaired fairly quickly, they also produce a high number of "disabled" men, what come back into action much slower (1% of the disabled per turn, so when you get to the first snow turn and the blizzard damage stops you probably will seea large net gain in the squads coming out of repair, as there are far fewer going in to repair.

You do need to be thinking about adjusting your TOE% at this time, based on whether you are going for an AGC or AGS campaign in 1942. I usually knock AGN down to 50-60%, AGC on 60-70% and AGS on 100% if I am going for an AGS 1942 campaign.

I think ( need confirmation) the exports are hard coded and what you see in the pools is after the exports have gone - there was some late chopping and changing to this mechanic.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:16:47 PM   
vinnie71

 

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Thanks for the info!

Pity we can't rebuild Axis allied units since they did a measure of rebuilding in real life. I'll stop moaning on this one though...

Re large number of rifle squads etc. So basically these are men who are just rejoining the colours, so to say. What about the damaged rifle squads in divisions still in the field? Are they going to be recycled for repair?

Re exports: I'm asking because in the begining the Italians send the Hungarians a large export of fighters which is deducted from the pools. Now, the Germans export different kind of Me109s to different allies (109e to Romania and 109g to Hungary I believe though I haven't seen anything for Finland or Slovakia). Now the 109e is the first production 109 in game and therefore  I tend to have withdrawing 109 units to 109e and then withdraw. I wouldn't want the Romanian export order to come up and then find out that there aren't any 109e left... The Romanians could end up becoming quite important since their AF is quite large and over time could become quite effective.

Also it is very difficult to anticipate what sort of planes the Germans export - ex yesterday there was an export of Dorniers which were not present on any advancement tables of any Romanian squadron. Therefore if export planes are drawn from pools and are hardcoded in time, its better to anticipate what sort need be ready!

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:22:22 PM   
ComradeP

 

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You can reduce the aircraft exports by changing the aircraft types of German units to those that are supposed to be exported, I'm not sure if it also works the other way around.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:26:42 PM   
karonagames


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re plane exports: Yes they drove me nuts when I was doing production tests, as I never knew they existed, so they were included in the logistics reports. So it looks like they are getting priority, and I agree, we could do with knowing in advance rather than in arrears. I will put this in the suggestion box.

edit: At the very least we can maybe get an addenda chart showing exports.

< Message edited by BigAnorak -- 12/21/2010 2:27:34 PM >


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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:29:59 PM   
vinnie71

 

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So basically exports do all come from the pools.

ComradeP, actually what I want to do is the reverse. The Romanian AF is quite large, but using a number of obsolete ac. What I want is to modernise it, at least with hand me downs from the Germans. So the larger the exports the better. Also isometimes ts not possible to anticipate what planes can be exported (the Dornier case above for example). Thus we can run the risk of exporting 0 planes because I'm sending them to withrawing German squadrons.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:32:48 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Not sure I'd want to spend the planes to modernize the Romanian air force. There might be a fair number of squadrons, but the experience is mostly mediocre at best. Giving a good plane to a pilot with 40-50 experience seems like a worse idea than giving it to a pilot with 70-80 experience.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:35:24 PM   
Mifune


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quote:

No Axis Allied units of any type are re-buildable.
Does this mean the Axis Allied units that historically did rebuild and returned to the front are or are not represented in future arrivals? Or another way to say those units which did return were not included as reinforcements?

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:37:16 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Yes, as the game doesn't assume any units will be destroyed at a certain time for the Axis or Soviets, so only historical arrivals and withdrawals are included, not fixed arrivals of units that were destroyed but rebuild at a certain point.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:38:19 PM   
karonagames


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Trey may be better able to answer that, I don't know if the reinforcements that arrive do include units that were destroyed at Stalingrad etc.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:52:09 PM   
Mifune


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Thank you for the quick replies, maybe some mod fodder to think about.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 2:52:58 PM   
vinnie71

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

re plane exports: Yes they drove me nuts when I was doing production tests, as I never knew they existed, so they were included in the logistics reports. So it looks like they are getting priority, and I agree, we could do with knowing in advance rather than in arrears. I will put this in the suggestion box.

edit: At the very least we can maybe get an addenda chart showing exports.

Thanks! A chart would be great! Presently some planes and tanks aren't even shown in the 'to be produced/imported' mode in the production screen.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Not sure I'd want to spend the planes to modernize the Romanian air force. There might be a fair number of squadrons, but the experience is mostly mediocre at best. Giving a good plane to a pilot with 40-50 experience seems like a worse idea than giving it to a pilot with 70-80 experience.


Its a question of gaming style. Romanian, Hungarian and Slovakian figthers provide local fighter defence, although the best Romanian Squadrons are posted up front (there are 70 rated experienced units). Bombers are useful too, especially since down South they tend to meet low interception levels and so gain some experience. Recon units are useful at any experience level... Besides most of the planes in question are really old or hand me downs from the Germans and Italians and therefore would just sit there 'rotting' the in the pools. If I can send those guys in a decent plane up there rather than in some stringy biplane, its enough for me!


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Yes, as the game doesn't assume any units will be destroyed at a certain time for the Axis or Soviets, so only historical arrivals and withdrawals are included, not fixed arrivals of units that were destroyed but rebuild at a certain point.


But what is the point? German units can be rebuilt and there is no guarantee that they remain in game (ex an infantry division that is present in Barbarossa is destroyed in 1942, but can be rebuilt and then mandatorily withdraws in 1944.
But say a Hungarian or Romanian division gets destroyed and is not rebuilt because???? Such units can only serve on the Eastern front and a degree of rebuilding did take place in real life)... Ok I'm going to stop whining...

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 3:09:21 PM   
karonagames


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quote:

Thanks! A chart would be great!


It's only a "maybe"!

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 3:11:12 PM   
Mifune


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I feel you Offworlder, it does seem like a big penalty.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 3:24:02 PM   
vinnie71

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

Thanks! A chart would be great!


It's only a "maybe"!




It would be very helpful...


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Trey may be better able to answer that, I don't know if the reinforcements that arrive do include units that were destroyed at Stalingrad etc.


Yes I think they do. If I'm not wrong, 60 th Motorised division was destroyed at Stalingrad or maybe later and cadres from it plus learning schools and replacements were reconstituted as PG Division Feldhermhalle. That's from memory so I stand to be corrected.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 3:31:42 PM   
karonagames


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quote:

Yes I think they do. If I'm not wrong, 60 th Motorised division was destroyed at Stalingrad or maybe later and cadres from it plus learning schools and replacements were reconstituted as PG Division Feldhermhalle. That's from memory so I stand to be corrected.


I've seen a post from Trey that confirms that GE units that got destroyed at Stalingrad, but were rebuilt on other fronts are withdrawn and then returned, but he did not say the same applied to Axis Allies, and that's what I need clarification on.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 3:51:09 PM   
ComradeP

 

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That would be odd Bob, as it penalizes the Germans in an ahistorical way, if the forces destroyed at Stalingrad are withdrawn (and why only those lost at Stalingrad, that was hardly the only fiasco for the Germans). I'll have to check the withdrawal schedule.

Mifune and Offworlder: I'd like to see minor Axis forces rebuild too, but for the moment it's not in the game. I can manage the divisions carefully to avoid losing them, so my main problem is with the support units that might run into some unlucky battle and be destroyed for the entire campaign without me being able to do much about it.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 6:00:33 PM   
Mifune


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Thanks again for the quick reply.

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 6:15:22 PM   
vinnie71

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

That would be odd Bob, as it penalizes the Germans in an ahistorical way, if the forces destroyed at Stalingrad are withdrawn (and why only those lost at Stalingrad, that was hardly the only fiasco for the Germans). I'll have to check the withdrawal schedule.

Mifune and Offworlder: I'd like to see minor Axis forces rebuild too, but for the moment it's not in the game. I can manage the divisions carefully to avoid losing them, so my main problem is with the support units that might run into some unlucky battle and be destroyed for the entire campaign without me being able to do much about it.


Thanks for the input. Basically at this stage one tends to keep them out of harms way, mopping up pockets and garrisoning cities. Though in the war Germans did sometimes look down upon them, these divisions did provide sterling service in many ways. Which is why they should get a greater regard. Also as you correctly said. The tide is against the Germans and so every little help counts. After all, if say a Romanian army gets destroyed in an encirclement, with their resources, it would take a couple of months to bring a few divisions up to strength...

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 6:50:59 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Of the 6th Army forces, the 295th, 71st, 305th Infantry are withdrawn in 1943, as well as the 3rd and 60th Motorized (the former presumably to morph into 3rd PzG and the latter presumably to morph into Feldherrenhalle).

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RE: Rebuilding Axis units and winter '41 blues - 12/21/2010 6:55:54 PM   
karonagames


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Trey's post said that if they were rebuilt and then sent to another front they would be subject to withdrawal.

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