Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week - Pride of NationsA new update for Piercing Fortress EuropaNew screenshots for War in the West!Pike & Shot is now available!Server Maintenance Battle Academy 2 gets updated!Deal of the Week: Advanced Tactics Gold Ask Buzz Aldrin!Pike & Shot gets Release Date and Twitch Session!Deal of the Week Espana 1936
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Planet Outposts

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds Series >> RE: Planet Outposts Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/23/2010 4:01:58 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7164
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
It also depends somewhat on the populace in Real World terms. There are places where the villagers will try to fight you off with pitchforks, and other places that will passively let you take over.

Tons of factors that can not be modeled in a game. Which is why I suggested Colonial Garrisons to 'claim' territory...even so, that 'claim' can be removed militarily.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 91
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/23/2010 4:20:02 PM   
Simulation01


Posts: 538
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feygan

After reading most of this with some interest something has become evidently clear, many of the arguments being put forward are using our own real world as an example, this will always fall face down since there are so many factors in the real world that you couldn't hope to emulate in the game, which does render comparing oil fields on earth with flags to giant gas planets 350 light years away a mute point.

However in the end it all does fall down to force, put as many civillian flags and oil fields down as you want, if you aren't sending the navy in when they get taken over by some hostile invasion then you will always loose them. This has happened numerous times in the past here on earth, and always it wasn't the civilians with their "but we own this land" cry that solved the issue, it always came down to guns.

I'm in the UK so a prime recent example would be the Falklands war, here you have a tiny island, with a big village worth of English population who are the subject of a hostile takeover, now had the UK not sent the navy there to start a war then the island would now be back as part of Argentina, not because someone came and took it but more importantly because someone "didn't" defend it. At the end of the day miners/villagers/rabbits&frogs do not defend anything thats why we have navies. So to have a simple (even if giant planet wide) mining station lay a claim seems somewhat odd, if you want to keep your resources then you have to show that they are yours and shout out "from my cold dead hands" whilst aiming a proton beam.

Some may cry that this then becaomes unfair because your take a rep hit, well again to use earth and the UK. England once held territory in every single part of the globe, we controlled most of the earths resources and so on. Why? because simply if anyone didn't like it we went to war with them and swiftly wiped them out, however this also meant that we don't now have a nice fluffy history of the entire world loving us as a nation because of our past.

So yes an opposing colony ship landing on the planet may seem annoying that they stole your shiny resource, but then did they really steal it, or did you just not defend it? PErsonally I think the game mechanics function well enough already without it becoming hugely complex and then encounter horrid balance issues. All I would like to see is perhaps an option on ships/stations to attack anything that comes near of X class vessel, so when I have a large empire I don't have to micromanage the destruction of rogue colony ships.



Interesting that you object to so many other views because they are utilizing 'real' world examples, yet you yourself use 'real' world examples as a counter point?! What else is this if not a 4x space empire strategy sim? It draws upon our global history in it's very creation.

How can one civilian ship then take over/out another civilian/unarmed state station?

The Falklands were invaded by the Argentine military...not an Argentine colony ship.

Also, the game is already complex....have you looked at the trading resources yet....or the resource requirements for building a major warship?

_____________________________

"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will." -Tennyson

(in reply to feygan)
Post #: 92
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/23/2010 5:29:22 PM   
nadia911

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline
No Simulation01

The Faklands (Malvinas) were invaded by the british colony ship in 1833

Later the Argentine military attempt to expel the invader...

(in reply to Simulation01)
Post #: 93
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/23/2010 6:04:26 PM   
Simulation01


Posts: 538
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nadia911

No Simulation01

The Faklands (Malvinas) were invaded by the british colony ship in 1833

Later the Argentine military attempt to expel the invader...



LOL The last Argentine attempt to assert it's sovereignty there failed. This thread, however is not about the legitimacy of UK rule over the Falklands, but over an issue in which I am personally vested.... preventing a colony ship from taking over planets which I have mining stations at.

_____________________________

"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will." -Tennyson

(in reply to nadia911)
Post #: 94
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/23/2010 10:47:16 PM   
Lord_Astraios

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
I think having a mining station shouldn't impede colonization,  since first of all is a state structure and uses civilians to run it.   As for me,  ever since pirates start bothering me,  i have redesigned the stations with weapons,  so is a standard,  but here is an idea , if the planet gets colonized,  the mining station would be there but with a problem,  would cease to operate,  with expenses,  but also an event could pop up saying Station 00010 is getting boarded or degrading,  of course you just could destroy it.

Also with the planet situation,  I do like that,  the colonial garrison thing,  could get some resupply but not as effective as a star base,  build a fort that haves its own army.   YOu could have 3 types,  simple,  moderate,  and the most expensive fort yet,  the simple can be like you can bombard it from space still it will attack you,  moderate could be difficult to handle but still you can bombard it from space and to speed it up send troops,  and the expensive one,  hard to get,  10% chance of bombarding it from space,  but you need to send troops to attack it since the base is underground.




_____________________________

*That* is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.

(in reply to Simulation01)
Post #: 95
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/23/2010 11:00:33 PM   
Lord_Astraios

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
Oh,  i forgot,  territory issue,  im fine with the DW map feature,  but here is an idea,  could be added as a option so you can select it,  and this reminds me of STARS!  the game  old but still have it in my machine,  even so the game was plain dots and you only see the scanners range,  graphical challenged,  but difficult to pinpoint each different empire,  but with a mod made for the game,  you could generate a map that shows you each empire,  the dot as the planet,  then the sphere with a color for each power,  if i can get my CD's i will show you a picture for an example.

But my idea is that,  each empire has a sphere of power,  and influence,  lets say,  planet Omicron,  colonize it, (Im using the pixel method as in distance from the planet and out,  not accurate but an example so you visualize how it could go) it gets a small sphere from 20 pixels to 40 according to the growth without a military ship present,  but with a military present on a colonized planet,  it could start same as the planet from 20 pixels or whatever size the sphere is,  one ship could add a pixel,  then two 4 more pixels,  and if you have a fleet of 9 ships,  the sphere could reach to 60 pixels and the game has a maximum of 80 to 100 pixels.

But if theres another power nearby and the sphere hits yours,  many examples can be made,  lines for example red and blue crossing in the sphere could be seen indicating a mix of power,  or dots instead of lines,  or like in the game i mentioned,  if i remember,  the sphere tends to consume my enemy until i had a huge presence around it only the dot could be seen identifying the enemy when it lost everything and i just got no time to invade it and having the planet for myself.


_____________________________

*That* is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.

(in reply to Lord_Astraios)
Post #: 96
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/24/2010 12:47:36 AM   
feygan

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulation01

LOL The last Argentine attempt to assert it's sovereignty there failed. This thread, however is not about the legitimacy of UK rule over the Falklands, but over an issue in which I am personally vested.... preventing a colony ship from taking over planets which I have mining stations at.


Except how does a simple mining operation that sees a freighter once a month perhaps, suddenly become able to prevent a colony ship from landing and setting up a colony? Just because someone plants a gold mine on a continent will not prevent me in any way from building a fully supplied colony on a different colony and thereby building a full marketplace and bringing in corporations to undercut the prices of the mining operation making it unprofitable for them to continue (granted this is an RP way of one possibilty how a colony can cause a mining station to become redundant and vanish). To flip this around though if I had the mining station and someone did the same to me then it's just business, hostile takeover business yes but still just business. If I really want to keep it then I have to remove the problem in the only game mechanic left which becomes violence.

I always play the game in a similar mindset that mining stations are just that, perhaps a few bars and such just to keep the workers happy but when 5-10M people land down and start offering better services and better prices your workers will spend their hard earned credits in town instead.

Outpost garrisons have the potential to work except from an RP standpoint they are abit of an exploit, you are still turning colonist away at the point of a gun except now your not getting any kind of rep hit for using violence against civillians. At least by firing on the ships in orbit you get an effect for being abit of a galactic bully. I can't think of any viable reason why any civ can just claim a bunch of systems just because they happen to have colonies that surround them by a few light years.

The other issue I have with outposts is that the issues of mining stations laying claim means there is never any hurry to bother researching planet type techs, just plonk down a nice cheap station on every resource rich or ruins planet you see and then go turtle while you get a colony on them which I doubt the ai could handle as a tactic to play against. Expensive costing garrisons I can't see unless they don't prevent a colony ship from being sent and instead deflect it away as if it were already colonized along with giving a rep hit with the colony ship race, they would be afterall just soldiers waving guns at colonists telling them to get back on the ship or become space toast. In which case where is the difference from what you can already do as in just open fire with an orbiting military craft, they don't need to destroy the colony ship just fire off a few warning shots with a "this planet is claimed in the name of xxxx, begone" message. All we need for that is a simple addition strategy order to open fire on xxx ship class but not to pursure.

(in reply to Simulation01)
Post #: 97
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/24/2010 10:22:20 AM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feygan

Just because someone plants a gold mine on a continent will not prevent me in any way from building a fully supplied colony on a different colony and thereby building a full marketplace and bringing in corporations to undercut the prices of the mining operation making it unprofitable for them to continue (granted this is an RP way of one possibilty how a colony can cause a mining station to become redundant and vanish). To flip this around though if I had the mining station and someone did the same to me then it's just business, hostile takeover business yes but still just business. If I really want to keep it then I have to remove the problem in the only game mechanic left which becomes violence.



Except this isn't what is happening. What happens in the game is that I spend money to establish a mining outpost and then you show up with a colony ship, land, and suddenly the mining outpost vanishes into thin air along with everything it's mined. In real life there would be, at minimum, a diplomatic incident with you 'muscling out' the gold mine.

If that gold mine belonged to a country and you decided to build a city there and force the mine workers to leave, don't you think the mine's owner would be upset with you? And should he be punished (reputation hit) if he decides to back up his claim with military force?

(in reply to feygan)
Post #: 98
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/24/2010 12:29:38 PM   
feygan

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111


quote:

ORIGINAL: feygan

Just because someone plants a gold mine on a continent will not prevent me in any way from building a fully supplied colony on a different colony and thereby building a full marketplace and bringing in corporations to undercut the prices of the mining operation making it unprofitable for them to continue (granted this is an RP way of one possibilty how a colony can cause a mining station to become redundant and vanish). To flip this around though if I had the mining station and someone did the same to me then it's just business, hostile takeover business yes but still just business. If I really want to keep it then I have to remove the problem in the only game mechanic left which becomes violence.



Except this isn't what is happening. What happens in the game is that I spend money to establish a mining outpost and then you show up with a colony ship, land, and suddenly the mining outpost vanishes into thin air along with everything it's mined. In real life there would be, at minimum, a diplomatic incident with you 'muscling out' the gold mine.

If that gold mine belonged to a country and you decided to build a city there and force the mine workers to leave, don't you think the mine's owner would be upset with you? And should he be punished (reputation hit) if he decides to back up his claim with military force?


I can agree entirely that it is odd how you can take land with no consequence, but then surely rather than go to all the effort of having extra outposts that become unbalancing without heavy amounts of work to fine tune both the ai and the maintenence for them. Would it not be easier to just add in a slight rep hit for landing a colony ship on an already mined planet for when the ai does it to each other, and when you do it to any of the ai. Then when the ai does the same to you, you just get a popup message the same way as if you have had a ship attacked and leave it upto the player to decide how they will respond?

I'm not quite sure how the ai currently works out if taking a rep hit action is worthwhile or not, but if it can already make choices on if to send spies that could provoke a war or not, then it shouldn't take too much to give it a new choice on to take land or not. Physically there is nothing to stop a colony ship setting up shop on an already mined planet and outdo the mining station to abandonment, all thats missing is some consequence for the actions. Also if that were possible then it would be nice to have an additional strategy where a patrolling military vessel can detect (with scanners) an incoming colony vessel (they already do this with invasion fleets so shouldn't be too hard to add one more) and open fire when it gets too close but not to pursue, while this would get a rep hit I feel as it should do as muscling in on someones resources with business might not be very nice it's not as bad as endangering civillians. This would accomplish the whole territory claim aspect by having a fully working military presence there, and meaning if you do leave gaps then the ai can still make a play for the land but there are consequences for doing so.

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 99
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/24/2010 12:45:03 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline
A slight rep hit is actually one of the proposals I've put forth on the issue, along with an empire policy to make armed mining stations shoot at incoming colony ships.

(in reply to feygan)
Post #: 100
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/24/2010 1:12:17 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 4880
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111

A slight rep hit is actually one of the proposals I've put forth on the issue, along with an empire policy to make armed mining stations shoot at incoming colony ships.


This makes more sense to me than designing in a whole new system of outposts. Maybe make an empire policy for when to open fire (full automatic/advise/never).

_____________________________

We don't stop playing games because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing games - Anon.

WitE Alpha/Beta Tester

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 101
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 1:44:44 AM   
hal9000


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline
I guess I’m arriving late to the discussion, but I’ve put some thoughts on the whole messy borders, colony on mining stations and claim things issue and wanted to share them with you.

First I’m in favour of a sphere of influence around your colonies, which would grow with the culture or population of your colony, starting with just the system or planet and expanding so that a high culture world would also include some stars in the neighbourhood.
Other empires would suffer diplo penalties for colonizing or building stations in that sphere not only with the owner but also some ‘you do not respect other empires borders’ penalty with all other empires. Maybe the aggressor would also get diplo bonuses with empires that don’t like the owner, or with the more aggressive races à la ‘I like your style.

Additionally I’d be for a casus belli system, so you can declare war on empires without getting diplomatic or reputation penalties if that empire gave you a reason for war like violating your sphere of influence etc.

I’d also like to have a distance penalty. Colonies that are too far away from the rest of your empire should have penalties on growth and taxes up to a point where they won’t be profitable unless you found some colonies in between.There could also be a distance penalty on mining stations, having increasing maintenance costs with distance.

As for colonizing planets with a foreign mining station already on it, I think you should either trade for the planet or have to take it by force with its accommodating diplo and reputation penalties. Additionally when taking the planet by force the colony ship could need a military escort.

I’m also in a favour for claiming things, but I think you should only be able to claim a few things at a time without getting the other empires upset and you should need to enforce your claim with your military. There could also be diplo penalties if you claim things at other empires borders or far away from your own borders. Claiming things could be a nice way of provoking conflicts between neighbouring empires and I also like the idea of empires fighting over a claim of a debris field.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 102
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 3:07:53 AM   
Simulation01


Posts: 538
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
hal9000,

I welcome you into the borders and outposts ( of some sort ) faction.  I'm assigning you to the USS Give a Damn.  She is a proud ship and is needed on the front lines.  'Those that like the status quo' faction have us at a disadvantage since they presently hold sway in the Distant Worlds Quadrant.  With your help I'm sure we will now have enough military and political weight to seek an audience with the 'Developers' Empire.  They are key to turning the tide in this war!  Erik the valiant captains their flagship.... the Battleship 'Matrix Games'.  If they were to intervene that ship would be at the vanguard of their fleet.  Hold fast El Capitan!

Sincerely,

Simulation01
Borders and Outposts Committee


"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred."      ~Alfred, Lord Tennyson


_____________________________

"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will." -Tennyson

(in reply to hal9000)
Post #: 103
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 4:01:16 AM   
Sabin Stargem

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline
I would also like to see borders & casus belli in Distant Worlds.  They will help with balancing the game and adding flavor to the way the empires interact.

(in reply to Simulation01)
Post #: 104
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 5:26:00 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2281
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline
I can't believe I haven't read this thread before now. It's quite a discussion going on and I'm a little bit surprised by the different views. Here's what I think after quickly reading over most of the comments;

Mining stations should not be dismantled by other empires when they move their colony ship in on a planet. If a mining station is present, then there should be a diplomatic request to buy the mining station for colonization, or military force can be used also.

I think there should be a small area of influence around colonies, but not dependant on technology, culture or population. It will be a constant border of influence which affects all other empire colonies, but not mining stations. The mining stations within the area of influence will appear on the diplomacy trade screen for exchange in negotiations.

The area of influence around a colony could be set at game start up via a slider. 0.25 sector, 0.5 sector, 0.75 sector and 1.0 sector distance from any colony. Something around those figures anyway.

How the area of influence would deter other empires from 'moving in';

Colonization within another empire's border will be determined by current relations with that empire.

An empire with a good relationship with the other empire will colonise within the border with no difficulty.

An empire with a poor relationship with the empire will have difficulties colonising with that border. Colonisation may fail depending on how bad the relations are. Who wants to live next door to an enemy?

If relations worsen after the colony has been established, then growth will take a big hit. Colonists should start to leave and eventually the colony will be abandoned. If military forces are present still on the planet, then the system can be 'held', but will of course be a drain on the economy.



_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to Sabin Stargem)
Post #: 105
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 12:07:00 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline
That would be the 'magic wall' border system which I really hope they never put in.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 106
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 12:57:43 PM   
BigWolf


Posts: 518
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline
** Note, not had a chance to completely read through, so may have already been covered **

You know, I'm starting to get used to this no-borders gameplay... the only reason I'm against it (and this won't change without a change in gameplay) is due to the fact my war is simply taking my largest fleets and hitting their home systems as soon as war is declared... after that the AI is simply done as the non-home systems will rarely have a high enough population to keep the AI in contention

And since the AI spreads the defences around their various systems, the only tough part is the large space port above the homeworld

As for outposts, I think mining stations should automatically make the planet an outpost (because, technically outposts are lightly populated areas for strategic or resource reasons, which mining, defensive and monitoring stations can fit into perfectly)
So, the initial construction would have only the crew, but over time the population may increase (ie. families, new workers, etc)... maybe increasing rate of resource gathering (only gameplay aspect to a pop increase I can think of atm)
If conditions are right, and you have the right techs, it could even spawn into an actual colony (but would take quite some time and still have a lower initial population than an actual colony)

As for colonizing planets with other empire stations and outposts already on them
They must be handed over diplomatically or through a military attack, and there needs to be severe repercussions to colonizing or building outposts/stations inside another empires systems (the AI shouldn't do it fullstop unless it's apart of an attack plan)
Also, to take a page out of another games rulebook, there could also be a colonization treaty that allows two empires (ideally allies) to open up certain worlds for the other to use for mining outposts or colonies

One thing I like about DW is there isn't that much of a phase of "colony spamming" that you find in every other space game, because you'll find yourself bankqrupt if you do


_____________________________

Formally known as DeadZone

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 107
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 2:37:43 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2281
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111

That would be the 'magic wall' border system which I really hope they never put in.


I find that a bit insulting. You make it sound like colonies will be defended by pixies amd fairies and little goblins. What I'm suggesting is an area of 'unrest' where friendly aliens will feel comfortable living and hostile aliens will feel uneasy living so close to an enemy. You can still send your colony ships, but there's an element of risk colonising so close to another empire.

If there were a slider on the galaxy set up screen, then you could even turn it off I suppose.

If I could make a suggestion, forsaken1111. Not all of us are going to agree on what would work best. It's up to Elliot to decide what's going into the game and we can only offer our suggestions, as he asked us to. Once you've had your say, you should respect others opinions and only offer critisism if it's constructive and conducive to the debate.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 108
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 3:17:22 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard
If I could make a suggestion, forsaken1111. Not all of us are going to agree on what would work best. It's up to Elliot to decide what's going into the game and we can only offer our suggestions, as he asked us to. Once you've had your say, you should respect others opinions and only offer critisism if it's constructive and conducive to the debate.
I never claimed to speak for the majority, I just said I hope they do not implement this system. If you took offense, I apologize as none was intended.

I am strongly against a border/territory system as you described because I find it unrealistic. Just because your empire dislikes evil space bugs (as an example) doesn't mean their citizens wouldn't want to live there. In fact they might take perverse pleasure in settling a rock you wanted. I'm all for political repercussions, but you are making generalizations about who would want to live where just because of some magical cultural force which emanates from the colonies, and I am against it.

I know that the developers make the final decision, I am not an ignorant child. There have been quite a few systems put forth here that would work just fine without a needlessly complex and unrealistic magical cultural border.

Yes, I made it sound like the colonies are being defended by pixies and fairies because that is what you proposed. While I respect your opinion and your right to voice it, I disagree with you.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 109
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 4:07:24 PM   
Igard


Posts: 2281
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111
I never claimed to speak for the majority, I just said I hope they do not implement this system. If you took offense, I apologize as none was intended.



Ok, mate. We're cool.

Like I said, we can't all agree with every system that's being suggested here. I take your point about not all aliens being averse to living next to a hostile empire, I just see the relationship +/- system as a good place to determine that. A colony on the border of a hostile empire would be first in the firing line if a war broke out so some unrest could be simulated.

To back up your point, there are of course some examples from Star Trek. You could take the Maquis as an example of a people who want to live on the Cardassian border and are happy there and will not allow the Federation to give their homes to the Carddies. There was also an episode of TNG where a colony of Native Americans were happy to stay in there homes and refused to leave, even as the Cardassians moved in next door.

I don't think I'm making generalistions nor am I proposing a magical barrier. I probably should have gone into more detail about the parameters that determine whether or not a race could colonise though.

Racial traits like aggression and friendliness could play a part in calculating whether or not the race will colonise in the area. So an aggressive race would have more success than a passive one, because their colonists have no fear of living on the border of another empire. A passive race that is also unfriendly may not have such luck colonising, because their colonists don't like anyone else and they don't have the aggressive nature to succeed in such circumstances.

So it's not a magical wall. It simulates an area of influence around a colony that has a realistic effect on the minds of other empire's colonists.

_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 110
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 10:14:59 PM   
Sabin Stargem

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline
I would like to see the concept of borders added to the game, both hard and soft. This is in part to make the game feel less like a random mish-mash of activity, where everyone is doing anything, regardless of how awkward it actually would be in real life. While having freedom of movement is important, I think giving weight to how people accomplish this would be good. It certainly would help with making diplomacy more important and vibrant, I feel.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 111
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 10:45:27 PM   
diablo1

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 2/27/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard


quote:

ORIGINAL: forsaken1111

That would be the 'magic wall' border system which I really hope they never put in.


I find that a bit insulting. You make it sound like colonies will be defended by pixies amd fairies and little goblins. What I'm suggesting is an area of 'unrest' where friendly aliens will feel comfortable living and hostile aliens will feel uneasy living so close to an enemy. You can still send your colony ships, but there's an element of risk colonising so close to another empire.

If there were a slider on the galaxy set up screen, then you could even turn it off I suppose.

If I could make a suggestion, forsaken1111. Not all of us are going to agree on what would work best. It's up to Elliot to decide what's going into the game and we can only offer our suggestions, as he asked us to. Once you've had your say, you should respect others opinions and only offer critisism if it's constructive and conducive to the debate.


Very good point and post Igard. That forsaken1111 dude is acting like he owns this forum.

Everyone has the right to post about what they like or don't like in a game even if it means including what other games offer so the developer can see there are other avenues of approach that have worked before.

I like X3:Universe especially Terran, but, that doesn't mean I'm not or wasn't interested in this one. I just point out things I've seen in X3 that apparantly aren't present or aren't working in this one like fuel delivery and aggressive combat AI both of which X3 does very well.

So he needs to get off his trolling I own this forum boat and settle down.

_____________________________

X3:Universe of games rules them all!! Xtra coming soon X3:REBIRTH 4th qtr 2011 YAY!

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 112
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 11:27:46 PM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1136
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline
diablo1 COULD YOU PLEASE SHUT UP and go play X3 instead ?? Thanks.

(in reply to diablo1)
Post #: 113
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 11:38:18 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 1978
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

diablo1 COULD YOU PLEASE SHUT UP and go play X3 instead ?? Thanks.


This.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 114
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/29/2010 11:41:39 PM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Ok, mate. We're cool.


I understand your suggestion a bit better now and I'm not quite as opposed, but I still really like how messy DW is currently. It feels like barely controlled chaos, and I think the concerns we have could be remedied with just a few small tweaks rather than a whole new system bolted on.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 115
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/30/2010 12:07:34 AM   
feygan

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline
Since there has been probably 4-5 ideas regarding this issue now put out in this thread. I'm just curious if any of the dev team have seen this and their thoughts regarding the subject of the game as it is now (there is no real territory orther than that which you plant a dirty great cap ship above and arm all photon torpedoes), and the other side of which being that colonies/empires can project a sphere of influence of sorts that either prevents or restricts free development from other empire nations.

Do they intend things to stay the same or will there be some kind of territory control in a future patch/expansion?

(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 116
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/30/2010 12:33:13 AM   
Igard


Posts: 2281
Joined: 3/29/2010
From: Scotland
Status: offline
Feygan, Elliot posted something near the bottom of page 1 about looking further into it and how some sort of border or territory system would be possible.

Forsaken1111, I tend to think that we probably will see small tweaks to the game rather than a big change like I'm suggesting. However it doesnt' need to be game changing for everyone. If a slider is added to the start up screens with an option to disable it, then you could still play the game just the same.

Diablo1, Forsaken1111 made a short post about my suggestion which I misunderstood as being harsh. We've all done it and he responded like a gentleman. I agree that you need to give it a rest with the X3 spamming and it is spamming. I get it that you like that game, but some folks don't want to hear about it all the time.


_____________________________

The Picard Era for Distant Worlds

Igard's Romulan Stormbird

(in reply to feygan)
Post #: 117
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/30/2010 12:38:18 AM   
forsaken1111

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline
It's far too easy to accidentally come across as harsh or confrontational when your only medium is text. It's remarkable how much tone of voice and body language play into communication, and we often forget about them being absent online.

I'm glad you didn't take it too personally Igard because I really didn't mean anything by it.

(in reply to Igard)
Post #: 118
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/30/2010 4:27:10 AM   
lancer

 

Posts: 631
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
G'day,

With regards to borders and outposts it's worth taking a moment to look a few steps ahead and be careful that you don't get what you wish for.

While I'm in the 'I'm-happy-with-the-way-it-is' camp, I'm open to different ideas.

However all the posts I've seen in this thread that are putting the case for change are all - from what I can see - doing so from the point of view of how it will improve their situation in the game. Eg. Keep others from stealing potential colony sites that they covert.

This is O.K in itself but consider it from the a different point of view. In any game you are only one of say a dozen races inhabiting the same galactic real-estate.

Having defined borders or 'areas of influence' backed up by outposts may well let you keep and colonise a few choice worlds at times. But what about the fact that there are eleven, for example, other races out there attempting to do the same as you.

I'd imagine that you'd very quickly find that the number of worlds available to colonise that don't have somebody elses outpost already on them or which are within somebody elses borders would be very few indeed.

Any advantage that you may gain for yourself would be heavily offset by the hindrances that you would create for your own expansion purely due to the fact that there is only one of you versus ten or more opposing races that are all busily gobbling up the available real estate by planting outposts hither and yon and extending borders.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Lancer


(in reply to forsaken1111)
Post #: 119
RE: Planet Outposts - 12/30/2010 6:24:31 AM   
hal9000


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

G'day,

With regards to borders and outposts it's worth taking a moment to look a few steps ahead and be careful that you don't get what you wish for.

While I'm in the 'I'm-happy-with-the-way-it-is' camp, I'm open to different ideas.

However all the posts I've seen in this thread that are putting the case for change are all - from what I can see - doing so from the point of view of how it will improve their situation in the game. Eg. Keep others from stealing potential colony sites that they covert.

This is O.K in itself but consider it from the a different point of view. In any game you are only one of say a dozen races inhabiting the same galactic real-estate.

Having defined borders or 'areas of influence' backed up by outposts may well let you keep and colonise a few choice worlds at times. But what about the fact that there are eleven, for example, other races out there attempting to do the same as you.

I'd imagine that you'd very quickly find that the number of worlds available to colonise that don't have somebody elses outpost already on them or which are within somebody elses borders would be very few indeed.

Any advantage that you may gain for yourself would be heavily offset by the hindrances that you would create for your own expansion purely due to the fact that there is only one of you versus ten or more opposing races that are all busily gobbling up the available real estate by planting outposts hither and yon and extending borders.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Lancer



I don't believe claims will ever make into the game. Being able to claim a thing or two at the same time would be nice though.
But I really hope that soft borders and some disincentive to colonize systems far away will be implemented, I just can't get along with the late game messy galaxies.




(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds Series >> RE: Planet Outposts Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.122