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Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812.

 
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Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/19/2010 2:56:44 PM   
moses

 

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Playing on normal.

On turn one I have good pockets in all three sectors. Here's my weakest one.






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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/19/2010 2:57:53 PM   
moses

 

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And I'm very happy with the first round air.




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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/19/2010 3:03:39 PM   
moses

 

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After perhaps checking in I'll ask Tophat to stay out in case anyone wants to talk stategy. Both Tophat and myself played WITP to death so dispite both being WITE rookies this should be interesting.

Here's the center. No one is getting out alive!!!




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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/19/2010 5:04:22 PM   
Tophat1815

 

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Yep,that is what it looks like alright. I'll have to keep my Bolshevik nose outta here. Now I need to take screen shots and start a counter thread,hope the beta testers and gifted amateurs help me out. Then again if i can hang in until Mud and snow its ever westward we will go!

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 12:11:48 AM   
moses

 

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Turn 2 in the North. Tophat is not going to run away and defends at the riverline as he is attempting also in the South. The problem is that I now have 4 more units in the bag at bottom right and 3 or 4 more possibly at the center of the river line. Feeding me units like this might cost him.

I got a bloody nose at Riga as I attempted to force a crossing with and 2 armored and a Mech division. I thought I had a chance at this stage against a single infantry division bu not so. My units had to attack piecemeal as only one had the MP's for a deliberate attack. The series of battles only cost me 300 men and 7 AFV but it was still an embarassment. It was a proud day for the 22nd NKVD rifle Division.

I'm sure Riga will fall next turn and we will see if fighting forward like this proves to be wise.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/20/2010 12:24:37 AM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 12:40:42 AM   
moses

 

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In the center the Russians fight for Minsk. That's five more divisions plus the airborne Corps that could have escaped but won't.

The entire AGC pocket has been eliminated and all infantry is racing for the front.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/20/2010 12:45:02 AM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 12:52:22 AM   
moses

 

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In the South the Russians back off to their river line. My armor surrounds Tarnople and prepares to crack the line somewhere on turn 3 or 4. The pocketed troops are a little tougher then up north and significant numbers fight on.

In the circled area I had to fight hard to clear the rail line. I would have liked to just bypass these guys but that wasn't an option.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/20/2010 12:05:53 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 1:01:52 AM   
moses

 

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My allied forces are released. This is a major benifit of driving south on turn one. Your allies get released one turn early. I wonder if Tophat was ready for this.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/20/2010 1:02:31 AM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 3:39:22 AM   
hgilmer3


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Nice AAR!

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 7:29:35 AM   
CarnageINC


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I learned something new, I didn't know that the Romanians were released early if you drove to the boarder. 

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 2:49:06 PM   
Canoerebel


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I'm assuming that this is the moses who used to play WitP. If so, you might be encouraged to know that your name comes up in the WitP:AE forums from time to time. I haven't seen you posting in several years, so it's good to see you back.

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/20/2010 2:57:00 PM   
moses

 

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Yes, I played and posted a lot about WITP. Eventually I burned out after 4 or 5 long PBEM. Never took the plunge to Admirals edition.

This game is easier.

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/22/2010 5:30:51 PM   
moses

 

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Here's my rail at the end of turn 3. I put 2 FBD's on the main line. Going 5 or 6 hexes per turn towards Moscow. I'm sending the FBD from the Breast Livstock area to support the Lenningrad attack but I messed up and moved him accidentally with another stack.

Still I will only lose one turn and we will start building more rail toward leningrad.







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< Message edited by moses -- 12/22/2010 5:53:59 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/22/2010 5:40:21 PM   
moses

 

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Turn 3 North. 4 more divisions destoyed. and a couple more traped. Riga fought but was easily outflanked and destroyed. The routed unit on screen is from Riga.

Next turn I w ill destroy the isolated units and prepare to break his main line.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/22/2010 5:46:13 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/22/2010 7:54:09 PM   
moses

 

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In the center all the divisions around Minsk were destroyed and my infantry races to the front.

My troops northwest of Mongolev are poised for a breakthrough while my troops to the south are able to apply pressure and maintain the south edge of a pocket.

If Tophat stands then I will surely reak through on the next turn and destroy some 15 divisions. But I'm happy if he pulls back as hordes of my infantry will sone be reaching the front.

I just noticed my exposed airbase to the south. Crap. but still, does Tophat send a division further into my trap in order to chase a few fighters??





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< Message edited by moses -- 12/22/2010 8:04:56 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/22/2010 8:49:56 PM   
moses

 

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In the south I think I've cut the rail out of the marches and those troops should be cut off soon.




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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/22/2010 8:50:48 PM   
moses

 

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More important it looks as if I've crushed his main line.

To the far south the Russians have headed for the Dneper and my allies will take a week to catch up.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/22/2010 8:53:18 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/23/2010 5:30:49 PM   
moses

 

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Turn 4 and Tophat goes on the attack!! in the south. Heres what it looked like after my recon. My entire panzer army is surrounded.






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< Message edited by moses -- 12/23/2010 5:34:05 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/23/2010 6:02:08 PM   
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Not very strongly it appears. Should be pretty easy to bust that lonely motorized unit holding the west side.


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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/23/2010 6:26:08 PM   
moses

 

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After heavy fighting I maintain my salient. My armor is now suffering a bit of a fuel shourtage. Some are down to 5%. But now supplies will flow and the Russians will struggle to get the troops clear of that huge pocket in the south.

Notice I have a little breakout at the bottom of the screen and though I reconed heavily I could find nothing down there to stop me. My guess is that Tophat will try and hold this line for another turn and will then be badly punished. Much of my infantry has caught up and his units are stretched too thin.

The alternative, (pull out leaving 10-15 divisions to die) is probably too much too swallow.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/23/2010 6:37:18 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/23/2010 7:35:43 PM   
moses

 

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In the center my troops smash through above Mogaliv. The rail line is out in the south so those guys will have to run for it. Tophat may try and cut me off for a turn like he did down south but you can see all the infantry I have ready to pile on.




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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 3:38:40 AM   
randallw

 

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He seems overconfident in the ability of the 1941 Soviet Army to make a hard forward stand.

If things go well you might be able to crush 70+ divisions over the first month.  Even with Soviet reserve divisions coming in you may be out ahead in pure manpower.

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 3:48:57 AM   
krupp_88mm


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if i were you id send my center force south to try to pocket his entire southern front, and leave the northern force to cover the middle, but then again i havent played this game yet

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 4:24:55 AM   
moses

 

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I've killed 60 full divisions already in the first four turns. In the game I'm playing against the German AI I've lost 43 divisions in 11 turns and I feel stressed. If I can keep this up I don't know how he maintains a defence.

It seems he's sending everything to the front. When I recon cities back from the line they look empty. For example Keiv seems to contain just one fortified zone and no divisions. It's all up front for me to kill.


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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 4:26:31 AM   
moses

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

if i were you id send my center force south to try to pocket his entire southern front, and leave the northern force to cover the middle, but then again i havent played this game yet


But I've got a pretty good pocket forming in the north as well.

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 10:29:58 AM   
Avenger


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Wow! Just wow!

Okay subscribed for sure.

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 11:28:28 AM   
ComradeP

 

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Your spearheads are somewhat at risk moses, also don't make the historical mistake of assuming he's hurting for manpower currently. You can kill ~70 divisions on turn 2 depending on the pocket you made on turn 1, and in doing so you'd kill about 1 in 3.5 of the on-map Soviet divisions at the start of Barbarossa, but it won't be a problem on the long term if pockets can be prevented. I prefer a forward defence myself as the Soviets, but Tophat's forward defence is on the risky side.

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 2:03:17 PM   
moses

 

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70 Divisions on turn 2??? That seems almost impossible as I had good solid pockets at start and killed everything inside. Are you talking units??

I destoyed 84 units on the first 2 turns and 130 through turn 4. This includes all the border regiments, fortified zones, etc. But 60 full on divisions at this point.

Also 7495 aircraft!!

The key question in my mind is what is the advantage of forward defence. I suppose he's wearing out my armor. You mentioned my armor was at risk and in some sence that is true. I don't feel I'm actually likely to lose a formation, but there was some hard desperate fighting and some of my guys are getting winded.




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< Message edited by moses -- 12/24/2010 2:12:05 PM >

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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 2:54:54 PM   
ComradeP

 

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70 divisions on turn 2 is the best I could do in one test on challenging (the slight bonuses to morale meant some Soviet units were tougher than they would normally be so I couldn't dislodge all of them), but adding about 10 divisions to that should be possible, as I think the maximum is about 80. It all depends on where and what you pocket. I'll try to illustrate that in my game against notenome.

Ideally, you place the enemy in a situation where, even if he restores supply, everything in a pocket is doomed. Personally, I don't really care too much if a pocket in the AGS area takes two or three turns to reduce, as it's not in the path of my advance and I have some infantry to spare.

The advantages of a forward defense are that it causes more fatique/losses to Axis units and allows you to build a defensive line in the rear. Note that by "forward defence" I don't mean "place your units in such a way that they can all be pocketed in one turn". One of the key things to master as the Soviets is to decide when to fight, and when to get the heck out of dodge.

The evidence of the possible losses, note that this was on challenging. I also believe the AI saved some units with a magic move, but didn't check at the time. My own losses are high because I suffered some silly losses when reducing pockets due to the difficulty setting, note that this is after I cleaned the pockets on turn 2 and without doing anything else, so I lost 18.000 men cleaning up pocketed forces (yes, that annoyed me greatly):




This is meant to show what's possible, not for bragging. As the first turn setup is set in stone, anybody should be able to achieve a similar result.

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< Message edited by ComradeP -- 12/24/2010 3:05:25 PM >


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RE: Moses(axis) vs. Tophat1812. - 12/24/2010 4:19:34 PM   
Avenger


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I don't want to clutter up someone elses AAR with screen shots, but I thought I would drop in my own campaign shot to illustrate a point. This is me straight out of the tutorial into a full blown campaign on normal. by comparison I think Moses is doing great against a human.



I have totally forgotten how this bulletin board works regarding photos. Sorry, every other board I visit this is how I post screens.


< Message edited by Avenger -- 12/24/2010 4:44:19 PM >

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