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Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 12:47:58 AM   
notenome

 

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Just a comment from my 41 campaign. It seems that Axis KIA to disabled is to high right now. Historically this should be about 2 disabled for 1 KIA, but instead its nigh even (on turn four I have 48k killed, 45k disabled).
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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 1:08:36 AM   
elmo3

 

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What is your source?  Note that in the game some disabled men will be returned to duty as that number includes lightly wounded along with more serious casualties.

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 1:48:45 AM   
pompack


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Note that the "disabled" total is the currently disabled, not the total disabled.

When you are killed you stay dead, but when you are disabled you are patched up and sent back into the fight

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 1:49:51 AM   
EisenHammer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3
Note that in the game some disabled men will be returned to duty as that number includes lightly wounded along with more serious casualties.



More reason why there should be a higher disabled to KIA ratio.

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 1:53:57 AM   
EisenHammer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

Note that the "disabled" total is the currently disabled, not the total disabled.

When you are killed you stay dead, but when you are disabled you are patched up and sent back into the fight


That makes more sense.

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 2:58:45 AM   
elmo3

 

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I thought was what I said.

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 3:19:47 AM   
el hefe


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The historical KIA to wounded (to include sickness and frostbite) for the Germans as reported by OKH in the first seven months (Jun 41 - Jan 42) in the East:

245k KIA
681k Wounded

or about 2.8 wounded per KIA

Trey



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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 6:45:13 AM   
EisenHammer


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What I think elmo3 & pompack are saying is that the disabled are permanent, like missing arms & legs and not the lightly wounded.
If lightly wounded were add then it would be almost 3 (disabled) to 1(KIA)as el hefe numbers show above.

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 8:15:38 AM   
Joel Billings


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Yes, disabled are more seriously wounded. Light wounds are damaged elements that repair themselves quickly or return to the pool quickly to be used as replacements.

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/18/2010 11:02:23 AM   
ComradeP

 

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You don't see the lightly wounded or temporarily out of action (through shock or collapsing due to fatique, for example) casualties as those are damaged elements, so it's difficult to track the total casualties, especially as not all go back to the unit, but some end up disabled. The disabled pool represents more serious casualties, but 1% returns to the manpower pool each turn.

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RE: Casualty tweaking - 12/21/2010 10:12:38 AM   
notenome

 

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For reference purposes:

Month / Dead / Wound. / Miss. / Illness + Frostbite

June / 8,883 / 29,474 / 2,701 / 54,000

July / 36,144 / 120,409 / 8,435 / 17,000

Aug. / 39,334 / 142,807 / 7,672 / 34,000 (estimated)

Sept. / 27,492 / 99,635 / 4,560 / 56,800

Oct. / 23,804 / 86,396 / 3,562 / 66,000 (estimated)

Nov. / 16,945 / 64,116 / 2,990 / 73,092

Dec. / 14,752 / 57,747 / 4,594 / 90,907
1942 :
Jan. / --> 87,182 (combined) <-- / 127,718

Feb. / --> 88,014 (combined) <-- / 85,086

Mar. / --> 105,042 (combined) <-- / 62,858
========================================
Total : / --> 1,082,690 (combined)<-- / 567,461

For the 93% of these "ncl" (Non combat losses) the average time of beeing unfit for action was roughly a month. About 5 % were
only to be used for work or garrison duties, 1 % unfit for any duty and 0.67 % died.

Now for the kind of losses that WitE models, 'bloody losses' (losses due to weapons fire):

Of all the "bloody losses" in the first year of the russian war, 22.9 % were immediate dead, 8.6 % died of their
injuries within 3 month, 2.5 % became unfit for duty, 10 % were only to be used for work or garrison duties, and
56 % of the wounded became ready for duty again in the average time of about 98 days.

source: The German Reich and the Second World War

So roughly 1/3 of combat cassualties died, and the rest should return to the manpower pool eventually in one shape or another. if we think about a mean time of 98 days, thats 14 weeks: 14/100, that equals about 7% a week, bit higher than we have right now.

This is no means a game breaker or anything, just something that been on my mind.


< Message edited by notenome -- 12/21/2010 3:13:04 PM >

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