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Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal (No Jrcar or Tony)

 
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Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal (No ... - 12/10/2010 11:56:25 AM   
aoffen

 

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Well Mark and I for our sins have submitted ourselves for slicing and dicing by the two gurus who demolished two of the games principal designers. We are the Allies and given the disparity in our experience levels, I would say the Japanese have a pretty reasonable chance to win this one. Mark is a long time gamer but hasn't played WitP very much. I have played for a while but this is my first game against a live opponent. Well enough of the excuses. Lets hope we get under estimated and can get a few licks in when they don't expect it.

Mark is taking China, India, Burma and I have the rest. On my side of the world, the plan at this stage is to run like hell initially and but fight hard for a few key locations to slow the Japanese timetable and buy time. Positioning supplies and engineers into these locations early will be a priority. On my side that will mean fortifying Bataan and Clarke, creating two mountain fortresses in Java, building up Port Moresby and maybe trying to hold on to Timor - or at least force him to deploy major forces there. As far as possible want to try and protect our naval assets except the subs, which I want to use aggressively early as the S boats are pretty well expendable (with apologies to their crews). Will aim to do most of the fighting with land forces and land based air early. Battle plans however rarely survive first contact with the enemy so lets see how we go.

Regards
Andrew

< Message edited by aoffen -- 12/10/2010 11:57:04 AM >
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/10/2010 12:45:10 PM   
Itdepends

 

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What scenario are you playing Andrew?

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/10/2010 2:41:19 PM   
aoffen

 

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We were going to play Da Babes light but I think we eventually decided to go with standard scen 1 with the all the new patches applied. Waiting for the exe patch now.
Rgds
Andrew

(in reply to Itdepends)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/10/2010 8:20:31 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Mark is taking China, India, Burma and I have the rest.


Does this mean you're responsible for Malaya and the East Indies? If so, Mark's getting off light . . .

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(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/10/2010 11:13:00 PM   
aoffen

 

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He has taken Malaya, I am doing the DEI at least initially anyway. After he has a bit more game time under his belt we may review that.
Rgds
Andrew

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/13/2010 9:21:25 AM   
aoffen

 

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....and so it begins. First (sub)turn returned. We are playing ahistorical first turn with some house rules, so we had an opportunity to set up fighter patrols and move existing TF's prior to the first action/combat phase.

Force Z runs from Singapore at full speed towards Surabaya as do any units of the US Asiatic fleet that had already been formed up. Hope to create a decent sized SAG down here that can at least keep the Japanese honest early on - until the main carrier force turns up anyway.

The at start British troop convoys are diverted to west coast India. The troops will be unloaded in India rested and trained and then committed to the India-Burma border as part of the stop line we want to set up to protect India. Will send at least one Oz division there too when they arrive.

Subs are set up on patrol. The US subs are concentrating on the West coast of Luzon, the Dutch on the North coast of Borneo in between Vietnam & Malaya. The last area is dangerous as its shallow but I figure its worth a risk early on.

Lets see what disasters the first turn visits upon us.

Regards
Andrew

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/19/2010 12:15:19 PM   
aoffen

 

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We finally sorted a few teething problems with the beta patch and got through the first action phase. PH attack results were interesting. The hits on the battleships were spread around surprisingly evenly so whilst all the big ships were hit, none so far have actually sunk. KB is still sitting 3 or 4 hexes north of PH so we have sent a welcoming committee of subs, aircraft and two surface fleets of cruisers and destroyers from the survivors of the Pearl attack. If KB sticks around it could be quite an interesting night. Elsewhere pretty much as expected. The Boise was sunk exting the Phillipines. So far all the British naval units in Singapore have survived with most of the heavy fleet units in transit to Soerabaja.

I have started pulling units back to my initial defence lines. Clarke and Bataan in the PI, Soerabaja and the two mountain strongholds in the DEI. Reorganizing behind the lines in Australia, NZ, Canada and the US being the remaining focus. Once units are in place will start setting up the logistics system. My main line of defence on the right half of the map will run Darwin - Townsville - Port Moresby (hopefully) - Noumea - Fiji - Pago Pago - Canton - Palmyra - Johnston - Midway - Adak. I plan on using PH and Auckland as major supply hubs fed by lightly protected regular convoys running safe routes with material then distributed forward from there to the main line by more heavily escorted convoys. I am nervous about these guys doing deep raids so plan on making sure they don't get any easy massacres of unescorted AK's. All this of course may not survive first contact with the enemy but one must dream.

Regards
Andrew
The PH results :






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by aoffen -- 12/19/2010 12:18:14 PM >

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/21/2010 8:13:42 AM   
aoffen

 

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2nd turn now done. KB came back and visited PH again. Not very friendly, but we got lucky. One of the surface groups I sent out last night managed to stumble across the CV group and whilst it didn't do much damage seems to have scared them off to extended range. No torpedoes and only light bombs used on the second day raid, so the BB's suffered a bunch more Sys damage but nothing that will sink them. Those bad boys are out for a while now though - a couple of them are just floating hulks - it will probably be over a year in the yards for 3 or 4 of them. KB is now out about 10 hexes to the west. Hopefully that's the end of them but we shall see. Vectoring more subs and surface ships in on them meantime and evacuating all the aircraft except fighters and all ships that can make way are running East just case they are REALLY persistant.

Elsewhere the Japanese have landed in Phillipines north of Lingayan and have taken Khota Baru in Malaya. We have scrambled all the naval units in the Phillipines. Non combatants are running south and subs have headed to sea to confront the IJN. Got a hit on an AK off the Vietnam coast and have sent a secret 4 sub mining raid to visit Cam Ranh Bay.

Early days but could be worse.

Regards
Andrew

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/21/2010 11:41:22 AM   
aoffen

 

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Forgot to mention, I have almost finished assembling a reasonably powerful surface force in Soerabaja now, based around the Repulse, the Prince of Wales and a bunch of Dutch cruisers. Once they are in action they should be able to threaten anything but KB down in the DEI theatre and up around Borneo and the Celebes. IJN aircraft carriers will rip them to bits but they can take on any thing from cruisers down and win. Lets see if there is a chance to use them aggressively.

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/21/2010 12:23:51 PM   
Itdepends

 

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So where's mini KB? want to bet DEI?

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/21/2010 12:37:22 PM   
aoffen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

So where's mini KB? want to bet DEI?

I am not 100% sure where it is headed, but yesterday it was off the west coast of the Philipines. The Boise was nailed by CV born torpedo planes, so that's a bit of a hint.

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/26/2010 1:43:06 PM   
aoffen

 

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Turn 3 and 4 now done. KB had another go at PH on the 3rd day but it had finally outstayed it's welcome. Some general airfield damage and a few planes lost on the ground but nothing critical on the BB's in the harbor. I did however nail about 40-50 aircraft with fighters and flak so that will have hurt some. I think I will choose to believe that combat report as it makes me feel a lot better. All 8 BB's have survived, which is nothing short of amazing given the amount of attention he lavished on them. Will post a damage summary tomorrow but I think I will be able to get 3 back in service in 6 months and the rest are out for a year or more.

The units which fled PH are now returning and the first troop convoy is leaving SFO for PH with engineers, base units and infantry. Some will stay and some move on to Australia. Will start my regular supply runs next turn as the tankers and AK's are almost assembled in SFO.

Air unit training is starting with naval air in San Diego and army air at March Field and a few others. Using 80% training levels on all. Have also started training 4 Wirraway squadrons in Oz as specialized ASW units. They will upgrade to Hudsons and Beauforts eventually and I hope they can lead the anti submarine charge.

Elsewhere not much. I tried to mine Cam Ranh Bay with 4 subs from Manilla but they hit a minefield themselves (ironically) which cost a sub and gave away their position, so now he knows I may have laid mines. His blocking forces south of the Phillipines are taking a toll on my fleeing auxiliary vessels and AK's. Have lost a couple now including and AO which is not good. Preparation for the defense of Clarke Field in the PI and the mountain fortresses in Java are going to plan. Malaya is also coming together and a major effort is on to get supplies into Rangoon to feed up to China before the IJA arrives is underway.

Some pictures tomorrow.

regards and merry Christmas
Andrew

< Message edited by aoffen -- 12/26/2010 1:45:17 PM >

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/29/2010 11:28:50 PM   
aoffen

 

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Sorry but still no pictures. not organized enough yet. Big turn last turn. We lashed out and sent two surface TF's out hunting for the enemy. We spotted a small IJN task force with a CA and some DD's SE of Tarakan cleaning up our various naval units fleeing from the Phillipines. Sent a cruiser TF (4 CL's and 4 DD's) on a high sped run up past Balikpapan to try and catch them out. Looks like it worked - we lost a Dutch CL and a DD but I think we nailed the CA Nachi.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Donggala at 67,97, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, Shell hits 28, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Kuroshio, Shell hits 1
DD Oyashio, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CL Danae
CL Dragon, Shell hits 1
CL Durban, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Marblehead, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Edsall, Shell hits 2, on fire


Over on the other side of Borneo Force Z made a run at Kuching. This one didn't go as well as our TF was spotted before it started its run and they were waiting for us. Still, I guess we gave a reasonable account of ourselves considering. Looks like we nailed the Haruna in exchange for a CA (Houston) and a Dutch CL and DD. Damage to the Repulse and Prince of Wales is moderate but they can still make full speed so will get away OK I think.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 3
BB Haruna, Shell hits 25, and is sunk
CA Takao, Shell hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 1
CA Mogami, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Mikuma
DD Asashio, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DD Oshio, Shell hits 3
DD Michishio, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Arashio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Shirakumo, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 21, on fire
BC Repulse, Shell hits 11, on fire
CA Houston, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
CL Java, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
DD Van Nes, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Witte de With, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
DD Electra, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage


I am hoping they will be a little more wary of us after that. We took more losses than I was hoping for but we did sink 2 major capital ships and we still have a credible surface force intact. Most of the losses, except the Houston were Dutch and therefore expendable and attriting IJN units for Dutch seems like a good deal.

Elsewhere no real news. Their subs are a real nuisance and have been picking off 3 or 4 ships a turn. Only AKL's and the like at this stage but we will have to work hard to counter them and stem those losses as the game progresses. The invasion of the PI continues. Japanese are now ashore at Naga in the SE of Luzon. We are withdrawing to Clarke and Bataan and fortifying and prepping as fast as we can. In Malaya the Japanese are ashore and moving inland. Mark is planning on making a stand in the middle of the Peninsula before withdrawing to Singapore. Probably around Malacca as it is the where all the roads and rail come together. Terrain isn't great though so it will be interesting to see what happens. Mark is also trying to reinforce and hold Port Blair. Not sure that will succeed but will be interesting. Light air action only across the front.

In PH the damage to the BB's is worse than I at first realised. I have put the least damaged 3 in the shipyards so I can get them seaworthy and move them back to the West Coast to finish off repairs. Only 1 of those will be ready in 6 months, the other two will be closer to 12. The remaining 5 are all going to be out of action for at least a year. They are clogging the PH yards so want to get them back to the West coast as soon as they can move with a reasonable chance of not sinking enroute.

Will try and post pictures next time.

Regards
Andrew

< Message edited by aoffen -- 12/29/2010 11:33:56 PM >

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 12:13:41 AM   
Nemo121


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Sinking an IJN BB and CA at this stage is good going....

Keep trading your ships as much as you can. Shipping is Japan's real weak point. They just can't replace their losses.


As to PH.... Just get the flooding controlled and then send them to CONUSA. The larger yards there will repair them much more quickly than PH can.

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Well, that's that settled then.

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 12:24:10 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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Your baby seal analogy is holding up but the other side is the baby seal so far.

How did you manage that intercept off Pearl? That doesn't work very often.

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 2:06:26 AM   
Itdepends

 

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RE the BB's- shouldn't you get the Sys damage down to zero (using pierside repair) before moving them as well?

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 3:08:46 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

RE the BB's- shouldn't you get the Sys damage down to zero (using pierside repair) before moving them as well?

Highly recommended You need all your pumps and electrical systems working if you are going to try and move a ship with a badly compromised hull 3,000 miles.

I triage the damaged BBs. If Major Float and Engines under 50, tie them up to the pierside until sys is 0 and then send to West Coast. If Major Float or engines over 50, put them in the PH yard until they get down to 50, then move to pierside if sys still not 0.


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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 3:21:43 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aoffen

Night Time Surface Combat, near Donggala at 67,97, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Japanese Ships
CA Nachi, Shell hits 28, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Kuroshio, Shell hits 1
DD Oyashio, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CL Danae
CL Dragon, Shell hits 1
CL Durban, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Marblehead, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Edsall, Shell hits 2, on fire


Over on the other side of Borneo Force Z made a run at Kuching. This one didn't go as well as our TF was spotted before it started its run and they were waiting for us. Still, I guess we gave a reasonable account of ourselves considering. Looks like we nailed the Haruna in exchange for a CA (Houston) and a Dutch CL and DD. Damage to the Repulse and Prince of Wales is moderate but they can still make full speed so will get away OK I think.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 3
BB Haruna, Shell hits 25, and is sunk
CA Takao, Shell hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 1
CA Mogami, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Mikuma
DD Asashio, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DD Oshio, Shell hits 3
DD Michishio, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Arashio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Shirakumo, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 21, on fire
BC Repulse, Shell hits 11, on fire
CA Houston, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
CL Java, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
DD Van Nes, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Witte de With, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
DD Electra, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage


Regards
Andrew


These were both excellent actions for the capabilities of your forces in theatre. Interesting that one was night and the other day. I generally try and fight during the day at this stage of the war (unless solely with RN forces), but you got Nachi at night with torps from U.S. flush deckers!

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 10:24:19 AM   
aoffen

 

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Finally got my act together and have finally taken some screeshots. Seems only one per post is allowed so will post each one in an individual message.

Its Dec 15th.

Last night saw no major actions, but his subs are becoming a real pain. As Force Z was conducting a full speed advance to the rear, they finished off one of the damaged Dutch CL's and then nailed the remaining undamaged one as well. The poor old Dutch are down to a few DD's now so we have paid a heavy price to kill a BB and a CA.

Submarine attack near Singkawang at 55,87

Japanese Ships
SS I-165

Allied Ships
CL De Ruyter, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

ASW attack near Singkawang at 55,88

Japanese Ships
SS I-162

Allied Ships
CL Tromp, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Express


The rest of Force Z got away but is battered. PoW has non fatal sys damage but will need a few weeks of repairs to be at full capability. Only Repulse will be back in action again soon.

His mini KB continued with the slaughter of the innocents and polished off half a dozen AKL's from the PI escapees. More annoying than painful I guess.

We had a crack with the PT's at Vigan in the PI but were repulsed. Will try again from closer range so they come in at night next time.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 19,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Naka
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
PT-31, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-33
PT-34, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-35
PT-41, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT Q-111
PT Q-112
PT Q-113


PI situation as below





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by aoffen -- 12/30/2010 10:27:12 AM >

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 10:26:47 AM   
aoffen

 

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The situation in the approaches to Soerabaja looks like this now. I think they will all get back OK now and we will have to reorganize the survivors into an effective surface group with the damaged remnants evacuating to maybe Colombo for repair.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 10:31:28 AM   
aoffen

 

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The situation on the NE coast of Borneo. My subs have so far been completely inneffective in this area. Maybe my patrol lines are too long and I need more subs. Maybe Allied subs just suck for the first year.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 10:45:33 AM   
aoffen

 

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The position in Malaya. (later edit : sorry just realised the northern circle and arrow point to the wrong hex. It should be the hex immediately to the north east)

Two Indian Brigades were cut off at Alor Star, so have now become a major delay position (hopefully). The other units are withdrawing to Malacca where we will stand and hopefully hold the IJA up for a bit before falling back to Johore Baru then Sinagpore.




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< Message edited by aoffen -- 12/30/2010 12:35:29 PM >

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 10:52:16 AM   
aoffen

 

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The repair situation at PH. As you can see, the situation is not good. Most are out for at least a year I would guess. The plan was to get a cluster of BB's to float damage less than 40, sys damage less than 20 and a min speed of 2 hexes, then send them together with a repair ship and a strong DD escort to Seattle or LA. Only the Pennsylvania is near that position at the moment. Open to any suggestions on whether those criteria are the rights ones and if a repair ship will help or not.




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< Message edited by aoffen -- 12/30/2010 10:53:09 AM >

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 10:58:41 AM   
aoffen

 

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Finally, an interesting situation off San Francisco. He is gathering subs to interdict the flow of material to PH. Have one ASW patrol operating with air search and air ASW support and am bringing in some Canadian KV's to help form a second group. I clearly need to get some crack ASW capable air units trained up and into action as his subs are really providing an unexpected pain in the arse. This could be an interesting game within a game.

Thats it for the moment. All advice gratefully appreciated. Us baby seals need to show those evil seal clubbers that we have teeth.

Regards
Andrew




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(in reply to aoffen)
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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 11:24:59 AM   
Alfred

 

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The repair ship will provide no benefit on the trip to the West Coast. The criteria you have for the "cripples" TF is on the conservative side. A more enterprising approach is to send cripples back once their non major damage has been removed.

Alfred

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RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/30/2010 1:41:14 PM   
Itdepends

 

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I'd suggest you move those Indian troops at least one hex SE of their current position. Georgetown can be bypassed using the rail line- they can go straight past you (that force directly to your east can go SW past Georgetown if they want to). You're also better off defending in jungle (for the terrain bonus) and in an are he hasn't prepped for.
RE your subs- the dud rate on the US versions will make your curse- the dutch can do pretty well though. Concentrate them in choke points- e.g. closer to where you expect him to land (e.g. Mersing) or where there are straights or natural funnels- plenty in the DEI. Expect to take higher losses/damage while operating in shallow waters. You're BB's are in reasonable shape- I'd put all of them on pierside except for Maryland. You get better mileage out of pierside repair- and the less ships you have in a shipyard- the faster they repair.
What scenario did you end up playing?

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 26
RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/31/2010 1:45:22 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aoffen
Thats it for the moment. All advice gratefully appreciated. Us baby seals need to show those evil seal clubbers that we have teeth.

Regards
Andrew





You are in serious trouble on the Malaya. 3 Bdes of 9 available are going to be destroyed for little benefit and will not be available for the defence of Singers or to be evacuated for future ops.

I would not try and defend anything North of Singers if he has committed historical force levels to the campaign.

I would try and get everything you can back behind the straits. You could give massing every single transport aircraft and all your PBYs to try and get as much of those two bdes at Alor Star out by air before they are overrun. He may sweep the hex with fighters in which case you may lose a few transports...

What is going on in China? Don't recommend trying to defend ANY open terrain hex.

Using the Canadian KVs as ASW is the best you can do in a while.

(in reply to aoffen)
Post #: 27
RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/31/2010 3:31:03 AM   
Itdepends

 

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Worth checking out what you can convert to at the moment too. You've got plenty of AK's- convert some to AP's. There's one or two that can convert to AKV's as well (Tracker is good for finding those). Find your fast transports (e.g. QE) and use them for long distance unescorted runs (their too fast for escorts- send an escort to meet them a dozen hexes out of port as that's where the subs will be concentrated).

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 28
RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/31/2010 3:14:19 PM   
Chief_Chemist


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The China Front:

We are digging in where the terrain is good. We are running where it is not. Important Rail heads and Bridges are being covered and some small units are being sent behind the lines. Reserves are training up. The OOB is finally sorted out and Leaderships is being attended to. Believe it or not, after a while this front starts to make sense.





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(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 29
RE: Aussies v Aussies - Being clubbed like a baby seal ... - 12/31/2010 3:30:19 PM   
Chief_Chemist


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China OOB

WA's 1-4 my notes with a # are for the map above







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(in reply to Itdepends)
Post #: 30
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