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Production!

 
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Production! - 12/6/2010 7:55:40 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1402
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		Being relatively new, I am not fully aware of what this forum has done over the past year or two, to this might be somewhat redundant, and if so, I apologize in advance! I have noticed that the manual is very much outdated (and getting more so with each patch). However there is one area that is really lagging behind that I can find and that is "Production". Indeed, there is no screenshot or explanation about the Production button on the menu bar. Can someone point me in the "right" direction? Before I set off on "the big game" I really need to understand what is actually going on! Again, thanks... Hal
Post #: 1
RE: Production! - 12/6/2010 9:21:44 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3612
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Not a direct response but I'd recommend you read the production mistake thread below for helpful information.

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 2
RE: Production! - 12/7/2010 1:39:21 AM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1402
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		But what can be done from an ALLIED perspective? What can I do in relation to allocation of resources? I have that big long list (production button), and I don't seem to see anything in terms of what to do with it.... very frustrating. The IJ production thread really deals with the Japanese perspective, which I can understand, as it is far more complicated, but I still want to know about both sides! Thanks, Hal

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 3
RE: Production! - 12/7/2010 1:43:40 AM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1695
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline 		Production is automatic for the allies.

Send some resources to Pearl and fuel to OZ.

Planes are in the list when they arrive the replacement pool is there also.

Try and get as many supplies into China as you can.

There's not really anything to do with Allied production, it's all automatic.

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 4
RE: Production! - 12/7/2010 2:50:07 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7110
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		About all you can do as Allies is turn off upgrades for aircraft factories and turn off automatic repair of factories.  Everything else is automatic.  The Industry screen for the Allies is useful to see where resources are short.  If you don't ship enough fuel to Australia and Inida, industry there will strangle.  Most places have enough Resources for the Allies, but a few places will run short of Resources (Pearl Harbor is one of them which has some light industry, but no resources, there are enough resources to keep Pearl going on the big island of Hawaii, but you'll have to ship it).

Bill


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Post #: 5
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 2:41:22 AM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1402
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		Well I have questions about the allies side of things given the above wdolson. In terms of A/C, there are only four types listed that are currently in production and 28 "in research" and all of them are in centers that are on the board. I am assuming then (assuming being a dangerous thing) that all the other allied A/C and R&D is being done in centers NOT on the board. Do you agree? Yet, when I try to turn upgrade off for any of them, the message "Changes not available" is shown and nothing happens. This too happens when I try to shut down repair of the resource. The message is "changes not available".

If it becomes available over time, if I shut down repairs of upgrades (who in their right mind wants Warramway (SP?) aircraft build OR upgraded!) does that free up resources, HI or LI industry? Nothing is said about that.

What about the WHOLE bunch of AC that are NOT listed on the Production Button, do I get a choice there (it would appear the answer is no)? In short, if we are given things to toggle and change and yet there is NO change, why is it there? Can anyone say? I just want to know my options as a player.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 6
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 2:51:56 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4573
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From: AE:96,160 @ 103,55
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Well I have questions about the allies side of things given the above wdolson. In terms of A/C, there are only four types listed that are currently in production and 28 "in research" and all of them are in centers that are on the board. I am assuming then (assuming being a dangerous thing) that all the other allied A/C and R&D is being done in centers NOT on the board. Do you agree? Yet, when I try to turn upgrade off for any of them, the message "Changes not available" is shown and nothing happens. This too happens when I try to shut down repair of the resource. The message is "changes not available".

If it becomes available over time, if I shut down repairs of upgrades (who in their right mind wants Warramway (SP?) aircraft build OR upgraded!) does that free up resources, HI or LI industry? Nothing is said about that.

The message "changes not available" is related to expanding the factories. The toggle actually changes the option from "yes/no", "UPG/Keep". Production of Planes,engines,Arm,Veh,Navy or Merch ships for the Allied side doesn't use Res/HI/Oil/Fuel.
quote:


What about the WHOLE bunch of AC that are NOT listed on the Production Button, do I get a choice there (it would appear the answer is no)?

No .. no choice
quote:

In short, if we are given things to toggle and change and yet there is NO change, why is it there? Can anyone say? I just want to know my options as a player.

It is changing things - just not in the way you suppose

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Post #: 7
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 3:04:58 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7110
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		It may be a bug.  It toggled when I created the screen, but michaelm is the one doing maintenance on the code these days.

Bill


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Post #: 8
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 3:06:21 AM   
n01487477


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

It may be a bug.  It toggled when I created the screen, but michaelm is the one doing maintenance on the code these days.

Bill


Bill I think he's talking about the message on the top right of the screen ...

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Post #: 9
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 12:06:37 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1402
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		I'm actually talking about both.... the message and the toggle... the toggle seems to do nothing not matter what you change, either upgd "yes/no" or the factory repair... on/off.... I have no problems with the game giving me options, that's good, builds towards complexity and hopefully realism. However if the choice does nothing.... hmmmm. I guess I simply want to know what can happen in the allied camp... I can see the Japanese have their hands full...

(in reply to n01487477)
Post #: 10
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 12:12:59 PM   
n01487477


Posts: 4573
Joined: 2/21/2006
From: AE:96,160 @ 103,55
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I'm actually talking about both.... the message and the toggle... the toggle seems to do nothing not matter what you change, either upgd "yes/no" or the factory repair... on/off.... I have no problems with the game giving me options, that's good, builds towards complexity and hopefully realism. However if the choice does nothing.... hmmmm. I guess I simply want to know what can happen in the allied camp... I can see the Japanese have their hands full...

What do you mean it does nothing ? Doesn't it toggle between the both option and therefore isn't it actually changing things ? I think the point is if you keep a factory it does infact stay producing that plane type... If you need to repair a factory (not usually necessary for the Allies) then this works too ... doesn't it ??

Screen shot please to explain cause I'm bewildered ...

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Post #: 11
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 4:08:10 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1402
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		n148777 I too am bewildered, as there seems to be nothing happening when any of the toggles are changed. And indeed, my question to the forum is just that, does something happen, and if you shut down an upgrade, does that mean the plane is made for the rest of the war? What about the Warramway? There are no upgrades in the data bank, yet there is a toggle for it... which makes no sense. You can't upgrade something that has no upgrades. Those that have played the Allies and had factory damage, what happened?? Did you repair OR if in danger of capture did you choose to NOT repair and what was the outcome? Thoughts? Hal

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Post #: 12
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 8:10:31 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 3291
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		dr. Hal,

Your questions have already been answered but it seems you fail to understand them because you retain erroneous preconceptions. So once more unto the breach...

1. A common interface is used for both the Japanese and Allied player. However because the Japanese player can modify his production, his interface allows for more tinkering. Read chapter 13 of the manual which goes into detail and the “Interface Addendum – v1094b” found in the “Manuals” subdirectory. When reading the latter continue repeating to yourself – only Japan modifies production, Allies enable production only.

2. The Australian Wirraway light bomber does upgrade. You are simply not looking in the right place to see the upgrade path. Click on the Information Button (short key “I”) then click on aircraft replacements. All aircraft upgrade paths are listed on the extreme right hand column. For the Wirraway, it upgrades to the Boomerang C-12 which enters production in February 1943.

3. Allied on map “industrial” production facilities can be classified into three categories:

(a) raw material production – (resources and oil)
(b) consumer goods production – (both heavy and light industry, plus refineries)
(c) elaborately transformed manufactures – (aircraft factories, repair shipyards)

In all three categories, the Allied player can not, repeat again, can not modify his production. An Allied player is limited to enabling his “industry” to produce. Hence an Allied player can determine whether to:

(i) allow his damaged industry to be repaired (applies to all three categories) – this will consume supply
(ii) allow his on map elaborately transformed manufactures (aircraft factories only) to auto upgrade to the next aircraft model on the scheduled predetermined upgrade path or remain producing the older superseded model
(iii) ensure his on map consumer production facilities have the necessary raw material feedstock to enable the production of the consumer goods.

4. To see how paragraph 3 above operates in practice, look at Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor has 1 raw material production facility (resources), 2 consumer goods production facilities (heavy industry and light industry), and 1 elaborately transformed manufacture facility (repair shipyard). If any of the three categories of “industrial” facilities is damaged, you can repair them at the cost of expending local supply. For the consumer goods production facilities to produce their consumer goods they need to have their raw material feedstocks (resources and fuel to feed the heavy industry, resources to feed the light industry) present locally. Pearl Harbor has no refinery production at all to produce fuel and its local resource production is insufficient to fully feed its two consumer goods production facilities. Accordingly you must import both fuel and resources.

Alfred

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 13
RE: Production! - 12/8/2010 11:38:04 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1402
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		Well I must say, I feel really foolish, here I am thinking that "upgrade" meant taking an existing airframe and modifying it to do something different from the preceding airframe or change the airframe to do what it did, but only better! It would appear that it also means that you cease production of an aircraft, retool and produce a new aircraft. Thanks for the redirection.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 14
RE: Production! - 12/9/2010 1:56:12 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4573
Joined: 2/21/2006
From: AE:96,160 @ 103,55
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Well I must say, I feel really foolish, here I am thinking that "upgrade" meant taking an existing airframe and modifying it to do something different from the preceding airframe or change the airframe to do what it did, but only better! It would appear that it also means that you cease production of an aircraft, retool and produce a new aircraft. Thanks for the redirection.

Yep ... Alfred certainly went above and beyond... guess we both have something to learn about communicating properly...

Good luck with it.

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EconDoc
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Post #: 15
RE: Production! - 12/9/2010 2:14:23 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7110
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Well I must say, I feel really foolish, here I am thinking that "upgrade" meant taking an existing airframe and modifying it to do something different from the preceding airframe or change the airframe to do what it did, but only better! It would appear that it also means that you cease production of an aircraft, retool and produce a new aircraft. Thanks for the redirection.


Upgrade in this context is what the factory builds next, not changes to a particular aircraft's production lineage. A given aircraft factory can build something completely different from one month to the next.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 16
RE: Production! - 12/9/2010 2:56:38 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 1402
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		Yes n01487477, there is a lot to learn. However as a professional educator, I also understand that it takes both correct knowledge content and effective knowledge delivery to maximize the learning process. Sadly that is not always understood when knowledge is transferred.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 17
RE: Production! - 12/22/2010 4:29:24 AM   
RedCharlie65

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2010
Status: offline 		Superb thread.  A lightbulb just went off in my head!

(in reply to dr.hal)
Post #: 18
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