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Dates - 12/3/2010 7:40:27 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Please tell me that the dates used in the game are of a changeable format? I've only just noticed they are in US format - there is a setting so you can change it, right?

EDIT
Don't hold the game up - but if it's not changeable, I'd like to see that in a patch...either changeable in the interface or at least in an ini file.

Thx

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 12/3/2010 7:49:06 AM >


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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 8:42:26 AM   
Flaviusx


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Curiously, games made by American developers use our barbarous dating system. That's just the way we roll. We also spell kind of funny, as you may have noticed from the released documentation.

No such option exists but it probably could be added easily enough.



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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 9:11:21 AM   
JudgeDredd


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I know - I was slagging anyone off for using it.

But as developers sell outside their own region, you should actually cater for other formats. As a developer od database and Windows interface systems, I know.

It's not actually something you need to think about. You create your software and as a matter of course, you include some way of changing the date format....be that through the interface or as part of an ini file the game reads. It's a very simple feature to implement - allow the user to specify a format and display it that way.

If you're used to seeing 7th June 1941 displayed as 07/06/1941, it's VERY confusing to see it displayed as 06/07/1941 and the very first thing you think is that it's 06th July 1941. It's a "gray matter" thing.

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 10:14:55 AM   
Adam Parker


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They tried the Soviet calendar system too but they thought it would be too confusing: "Thirty days have September, April June and November unless Stalin says otherwise".

I dunno. I thought it had historical grit.

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 10:59:05 AM   
Joe 98


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Way back in 2002, Uncommon Valour was released.

I suggested the date format be changed from 12/7/41 to "7-Dec-1941"

But on the other side of the dateline Pearl Harbour happened in July.

Some years later, War in the Pacific was in production and I made a suggestion.........

I then learnt this game was in production and I made a suggestion............

In the meantime both the Russians and the Germans measure in kilometers. So, what is the size of each hex?

-





-




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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 11:19:15 AM   
JudgeDredd


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mmm....but I'm not asking them to fix it for Brits/French/Aussies or any other region...I'm only asking that they do "the norm" and allow the date format to be changeable to certain different common settings

Miles/Kilometers don't really bother me as much as I'm not "confused" by those and in the context of gaming they are too relevant - but seeing a date and having to hcange it in your head so you know what it means is difficult...especially when you are playing other games that show you the date in the format of your "system setting"...so if I'm playing Decisive Campaigns and then fire this up the next day, I'll be mightily confused.

Like I said - no need to hold up the game - but I think you should maybe think about the issue going forward (with patches and any new games you create).

I wonder how much of a massive failure Microsoft Windows, Office, SQL Server (or any other database tool), programming language or the internet would be if they just thought "Sod it - people can use our date format regardless of where they are in the world"?

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 11:34:34 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Just think how annoying as a US player you would find it if the dates were fixed the other way round (in UK format)...

I'll leave it at that. Hopefully an update will be out which allows it to be changed. I doubt I'll put off buying until that update - but I would like to see it being added in the future as an option. Even fixing it to use the system date which is also an accepted standard...

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 11:38:54 AM   
Flaviusx


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Point in fact, if I were playing a British game I would expect the dating and spelling and distance measurements and other such things to conform to British standards and regard those as part of the charm of the thing. It wouldn't annoy me in the least.







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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 12:05:18 PM   
cmurphy625


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LOL Evil Evil JD!!.. I thought this was a post about Game Release Date!!!..

Just kidding.. I know your date format confuses me at times when I see it, I agree, dates in a game/program should run off the 'system' format.. You wouldn't want to show up at the battle too late!

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 12:09:23 PM   
Helpless


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There is no strict rule on the date display in WITE. In most cases month is named and/or there date is in mm-yyyy format, i.e. no day. Adding an option wouldn't be a problem, but not a 5 minute task either. It is just matter of of priority. I wish the date display "issue" would be the biggest problem of the game.





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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 12:37:40 PM   
DBeves

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Point in fact, if I were playing a British game I would expect the dating and spelling and distance measurements and other such things to conform to British standards and regard those as part of the charm of the thing. It wouldn't annoy me in the least.








Point of fact - these days most coding simply formats the date based on the computer its running on regional settings ... Cant really - as a programmer myself - see why this is considered rocket science for any piece of software ?

Personally I dont care how the release date is formatted - just tell me what it is ...

< Message edited by DBeves -- 12/3/2010 12:43:10 PM >

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 12:49:34 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I didn't want to start a big ho-ha about it or turn it into an us and them mud fight

tbh the comment "Curiously, games made by American developers use our barbarous dating system" did make me feel like it was "It's our code, deal with it" I don't mind your spelling differences - they are not confusing. But using a date system that isn't native to the country it's being used in IS confusing - or can be. I'm sure there are lots of people out there that do not agree. Fine. But it unfortunately it is confusing to me.

So sorry - about that. A nice patch that addresses it would be nice. I know for a fact I will find those dates bloody confusing - not annoying (I did use that word but just used the wrong word) - confusing.

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 12:52:46 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

There is no strict rule on the date display in WITE. In most cases month is named and/or there date is in mm-yyyy format, i.e. no day. Adding an option wouldn't be a problem, but not a 5 minute task either. It is just matter of of priority....

I understand that and I do realise that adding it now might not be a 5 minute job.

Where the dates STATE the month (11-Dec-1941) or when the day is not used, then there is no confusion. It's whilst I was looking at screenshots I noticed the date and it only stuck out when I saw a screenshot with the format 11/28/1941 that I realised it was in US format.


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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 12:56:25 PM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

Guys please... please... this is Gary Grigsby war simulation (I will not call it "game" - it is not "games" just like Gary Grigsby's UV / WitP /WitP-AE are not "game" as well)!

Also just look how all measurement units and dates are handled there (i.e. UV, WitP and WitP-AE) and everything will be clear (and note how they had and still have most excellent support)...


Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 1:08:49 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Curiously, games made by American developers use our barbarous dating system. That's just the way we roll. We also spell kind of funny, as you may have noticed from the released documentation.



The Real truth behind D Day comes out. It had to be on 6/6/44 to get the Yanks to turn up on time

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 1:47:12 PM   
Flaviusx


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JD, I'm mostly yanking your chain here, tbh. (Okay, borderline trolling on my part, I'll fess up.)

I really don't give a damn if they add an option to change the date to this or not at some point. But I am bemused this is such a big deal to you or anybody else, seems incredibly trivial to me.






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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 2:12:12 PM   
JudgeDredd


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I'm sure it does seem trivial to you. I have no doubt it would seem trivial to alot of others as well.

It's not such a big deal to me that it's a "buy or no buy" decision...but I would like the option. That's all I'm asking. I'm not bothered about it being applied later in a patch which will inevitably be forthcoming...and not even in the first patch.

I find the US date system (when dealing with days below 13th) to be confusing and regularly have to "think" about what the actual date is. That's because I've been brought up using a different system to yourselves. As I said, it's not the language differences - it's not the metric/imperial - they are not something I will have to bother with during the game - but the dates are.

It's a pity it didn't occur to anyone involved in the devlopment. Dare I suggest it is normal programming procedure to use the date system set by ones system.

I apologise to anyone who thinks I've wasted valuable thread space by posting this trivial issue.

You know what, seriously if it didn't bother anyone else, then I wonder why post - and now the thread is de-railed. I asked if it was changeable and if not could it be added in the future. I even said not to hold up release.

Thanks alot guys

Devs - don't worry about it. I'll get by

(mental note to self - don't post anything if I think it might be incredibly trivial to someone else)

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 3:04:55 PM   
Noakesy

 

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What an hilarious thread. I entirely agree with JD, being british means that we (not unreasonably ) expect everyone to do as we do. I much prefer the dates the correct way around. Similarly you can see that a small question like this can spur on many responses (I particularly enjoyed Joe's). I reckon this is all down to people getting so excited at the imminent release.

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 3:41:30 PM   
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Well, it was originally set for 4/6/44, so maybe the Yanks thought they were coming 2 months late and the Brits, Poles and Canadians would have secured the beaches for them? LOL

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 3:45:48 PM   
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How did they handle this during WW2? Did the USAAF use US date systems while the RAF used the British one? That must have caused endless confusion... I can almost hear the RAF top brass venting their frustrations at the 'bloody yanks'.

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 7:08:45 PM   
Flaviusx


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Redmarkus, I'm guessing that the fellows running the RAF and the USAAF during WW2 had something resembling a sense of proportion and got on by assuming each other's orders would reflect their national peculiarities and didn't make a fuss about it.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/3/2010 7:09:13 PM >


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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 8:05:07 PM   
planetbrain


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^
None the less it is bloody annoying, having to apply extra consideration to some thing as simple as the date!
I also have it with Panzer Command Kharkov that the game won't run unless I change the date format on my system to U.S., regardless of a patch that supposedly fixed this!

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 8:10:43 PM   
Captain B


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Actually, I believed everyone went off the standard "military time" format. Much less messy that way (and easier to coordinate attacks)

ddHHnnZmmmyy where dd is the date, HH is hours (24 hour clock thank you); nn is minutes; Z is Greenwich Mean Time or the time zone; mmm is the month and yy is the last two digits of the year.

So right now in Greenwich it would be 032007ZDec10 or locally 031507RDec10 here in sunny East Tennessee.





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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 8:30:17 PM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain B

Actually, I believed everyone went off the standard "military time" format. Much less messy that way (and easier to coordinate attacks)

ddHHnnZmmmyy where dd is the date, HH is hours (24 hour clock thank you); nn is minutes; Z is Greenwich Mean Time or the time zone; mmm is the month and yy is the last two digits of the year.

So right now in Greenwich it would be 032007ZDec10 or locally 031507RDec10 here in sunny East Tennessee.





Agreed

I was so used to that format and the shortformat (3dec10 without time for local) that I used it all the time. My friends and neighbors never once asked me what the date meant (although if I had ever used the GMT version they might have)

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 9:13:40 PM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Redmarkus, I'm guessing that the fellows running the RAF and the USAAF during WW2 had something resembling a sense of proportion and got on by assuming each other's orders would reflect their national peculiarities and didn't make a fuss about it.



Can I ask why my request for a simple, small change get your goat up? You have already admitted trolling and continue to do so by deliberately goading?

Why did my request for an option - as and when they could provide it annoy you so?

My request affected no-one except the developer and only when they could get it out in a patch - and it was a request - not a demand - and still you troll


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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 9:27:06 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: planetbrain

^
None the less it is bloody annoying, having to apply extra consideration to some thing as simple as the date!
I also have it with Panzer Command Kharkov that the game won't run unless I change the date format on my system to U.S., regardless of a patch that supposedly fixed this!


Strange. I run a UK platform still configured as delivered by Dell and Pz Cmd Kharkov runs just fine with adjustments. Was there a US download as well as an EU download option maybe?

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 9:29:31 PM   
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Thanks Capt B. I learned something :)

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 10:06:59 PM   
Flaviusx


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JD, I'm still getting bites, too.

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 10:33:55 PM   
Adam Parker


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Being an Aussie I totaly see Judge's point of view but in game terms I think it is much more relevant that we address driving on the right side of the road.

The right side is the left side.

Can all players of WitE please do that once they get their games.

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RE: Dates - 12/3/2010 10:34:26 PM   
JudgeDredd


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ok - I know boredom sets in when people are waiting for a game, but you have no reason to be bored - you've got the bloody thing!

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