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RE: DEI Question

 
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RE: DEI Question - 12/5/2010 6:21:21 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

I was merely wondering if a (PBEM) grand campaign scenario with the whole OOB (for all nations) on a regimental scale (without the ability to combine the stuff into divisions) would be a worthwhile thing to do (well, Chinese divisions would remain divisions, but they're mostly at a corps scale, currently).


I would absolutely love a game like that. The problem is just with a game engine limitation/proclivity, not at all with my preference.

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Post #: 31
RE: DEI Question - 12/5/2010 7:53:16 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Its hard on the AI

The Ai is bad at co ordinating units - one big all arms is better than  5 sub units

By all means for a PBEM only variant but the AI will struggle


Andy, the problem here is the way the game engine distributes casualties. Divisions take casualties, but companies, battalions and sometimes regiments get wiped out. Then, there is no ability to reconstitute those units from the pools.

I would love to have all units be able to break down to smaller units (well I know there would be some limit), but the engine doesn't handle combat elegantly enough for that.


I was merely wondering if a (PBEM) grand campaign scenario with the whole OOB (for all nations) on a regimental scale (without the ability to combine the stuff into divisions) would be a worthwhile thing to do (well, Chinese divisions would remain divisions, but they're mostly at a corps scale, currently).


Are there enough land unit slots?

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Post #: 32
RE: DEI Question - 12/5/2010 7:55:46 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Probably not

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Post #: 33
RE: DEI Question - 12/6/2010 10:22:12 AM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Its hard on the AI

The Ai is bad at co ordinating units - one big all arms is better than  5 sub units

By all means for a PBEM only variant but the AI will struggle


Andy, the problem here is the way the game engine distributes casualties. Divisions take casualties, but companies, battalions and sometimes regiments get wiped out. Then, there is no ability to reconstitute those units from the pools.

I would love to have all units be able to break down to smaller units (well I know there would be some limit), but the engine doesn't handle combat elegantly enough for that.


I was merely wondering if a (PBEM) grand campaign scenario with the whole OOB (for all nations) on a regimental scale (without the ability to combine the stuff into divisions) would be a worthwhile thing to do (well, Chinese divisions would remain divisions, but they're mostly at a corps scale, currently).


Are there enough land unit slots?


If one uses the slots in the lower part of the location database (not accessible via the stock editor but doable with a modified editor or with excel), yes. I'm currently testing if this does have any ill effects.


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Post #: 34
RE: DEI Question - 12/8/2010 8:58:51 PM   
AlaskanWarrior


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I would also look at creating seperate divisional/brigade HQ's to help with command aspects.

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Post #: 35
RE: DEI Question - 12/9/2010 5:58:38 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior
I would also look at creating seperate divisional/brigade HQ's to help with command aspects.

That's what I'm doing for the "Japanese Centrifugal Advance" scenario. Dropping the unit scale down an echelon or two requires dropping the HQ scale down accorgingly, to maintain the game relationship. The witch is that all the Div, Brig Grp, Brig leaders need to be tweaked in order to be selectable for a Div, Brig Grp, or Brig, HQ assignment. Woof!!

The basic scenario is done, and sent off to the group to play out, but there's tons of little things like this that have to be tweaked, before the scenario can be released to the gaming public. Should be getting some good feedback from the group and, combined with comments like AlaskanWarrior's, might be able to develop a fairly good, phase-1 kind of scenario, that will appeal to players on both sides.


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Post #: 36
RE: DEI Question - 12/16/2010 6:45:27 PM   
berto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue
I don't think any game has ever been hurt by the submission of intricate user designed scenarios trying to model particular match-ups of forces in some large or small corner of the world. It's not like AE seems to needs a lot of help, but shorter hot-box scenarios might still attract a lot of grogs that may not feel they have the time for long campaigns...

+1

My cup of tea. Hot-seat solitaire works for me, too. I wait for this with bated breath.

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Post #: 37
RE: DEI Question - 12/16/2010 7:31:34 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue
I don't think any game has ever been hurt by the submission of intricate user designed scenarios trying to model particular match-ups of forces in some large or small corner of the world. It's not like AE seems to needs a lot of help, but shorter hot-box scenarios might still attract a lot of grogs that may not feel they have the time for long campaigns...

+1

My cup of tea. Hot-seat solitaire works for me, too. I wait for this with bated breath.

Oh, bucko! Bait your breath! This one is gonna be an absolute nad churning, wicked witch 'o the West, scenario; the best we can do. This scenario is not your little sister's AE.

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Post #: 38
RE: DEI Question - 12/16/2010 7:38:53 PM   
berto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
My cup of tea. Hot-seat solitaire works for me, too. I wait for this with bated breath.

Oh, bucko! Bait your breath! This one is gonna be an absolute nad churning, wicked witch 'o the West, scenario; the best we can do. This scenario is not your little sister's AE.

I'd love to test this.

I'd die too for a later scenario, at this level of detail, covering Philippines 1944-45.

Heck, I'd give my right arm for a 1942-1944 Papua-New Guinea/Rabaul scenario.

< Message edited by berto -- 12/16/2010 9:18:10 PM >


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(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 39
RE: DEI Question - 12/17/2010 12:57:57 AM   
oldman45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
quote:

ORIGINAL: berto
My cup of tea. Hot-seat solitaire works for me, too. I wait for this with bated breath.

Oh, bucko! Bait your breath! This one is gonna be an absolute nad churning, wicked witch 'o the West, scenario; the best we can do. This scenario is not your little sister's AE.

I'd love to test this.

I'd die too for a later scenario, at this level of detail, covering Philippines 1944-45.

Heck, I'd give my right arm for a 1942-1944 Papua-New Guinea/Rabaul scenario
.


double +1

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Post #: 40
RE: DEI Question - 12/17/2010 3:12:57 AM   
stuman


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Wish I could send Scotch or Rum through the mail. I will try to remember to drop something off the next time I am driving through Mobile.

This seems like a fun scenario.

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Post #: 41
RE: DEI Question - 12/17/2010 2:12:29 PM   
Don Bowen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Wish I could send Scotch or Rum through the mail.



You can (or at least, I have)

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Post #: 42
RE: DEI Question - 12/17/2010 10:39:58 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1251
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From: Denver Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue
I don't think any game has ever been hurt by the submission of intricate user designed scenarios trying to model particular match-ups of forces in some large or small corner of the world. It's not like AE seems to needs a lot of help, but shorter hot-box scenarios might still attract a lot of grogs that may not feel they have the time for long campaigns...

+1

My cup of tea. Hot-seat solitaire works for me, too. I wait for this with bated breath.


+2

I also await with double bated breath..

Mac

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Post #: 43
RE: DEI Question - 12/18/2010 6:47:36 AM   
Bradley7735


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Wish I could send Scotch or Rum through the mail.



You can (or at least, I have)



Can't mail flamables. Well, you can, but you're not supposed to. They generally don't catch you, though.

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Post #: 44
RE: DEI Question - 12/18/2010 3:47:01 PM   
witpqs


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Try UPS Ground.

(in reply to Bradley7735)
Post #: 45
RE: DEI Question - 12/18/2010 7:34:48 PM   
JWE

 

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I've had mixed luck. Tried to send Mike (USS America) a wine sampler, a few months ago, but got caught. Have sent stuff by UPS Ground without a lot of trouble otherwise, so give it a try.

I like single malts best, drink Maker's Mark when I run out of Whiskey, drink almost anything 'brown' when I run out of the other stuff, drink almost anything when the cupboard is bare.

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Post #: 46
RE: DEI Question - 12/18/2010 8:29:11 PM   
witpqs


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I wonder if that's just a tax issue, sending liquor across state lines. If you make an online gift purchase, paid by you but delivered direct, should be OK.

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 47
RE: DEI Question - 12/19/2010 5:07:14 AM   
Central Blue

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue
I don't think any game has ever been hurt by the submission of intricate user designed scenarios trying to model particular match-ups of forces in some large or small corner of the world. It's not like AE seems to needs a lot of help, but shorter hot-box scenarios might still attract a lot of grogs that may not feel they have the time for long campaigns...

+1

My cup of tea. Hot-seat solitaire works for me, too. I wait for this with bated breath.


Solitaire would be great, but absent that elbow-grease from the scenario designer or design team, could something like a PBEM work with Leyte Gulf? Too short? Might not work even with one day turns? No interest? I would never knock designers for sticking to PBEM. If the piper ain't getting paid, he plays his own tune, or scratches his own itch.

Could be this design team or others using the Babes mod, or others working off stock. What are the limits for short scenarios in this game system and the minimum 24 hour turn length? Designer interest to start with i would think.

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Post #: 48
RE: DEI Question - 12/22/2010 3:48:15 PM   
JWE

 

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The PI part of this is done. A place for everybody and everybody in their place. It’s “basically” a Jan. 1 start, but some things are set up on a Jan 4, or 5 basis – just to make it work smoothly. This is the prep period for the first assault on Bataan by 14th Army and also the prep period for 2nd stage ops against the DEI (Manado, Kendari, Tarakan, and bears, oh my!). It’s set up so that units and TFs arrive and are prepped for certain targets, so that the first week of DEI ops should flow pretty much as it did. After that – cry Havoc!

Because of this, certain units are broken down in specific ways in order that specific operations may be performed. These units ‘may’ be recombined, if desired, but this is not advised during the first week, or so, of the scenario time scale.

For example, 1st and 3rd Yok SNLF are targeted for para ops (i.e., the drop at Manado). They were structurally organized like a typical 3 company SNLF, but only “elements” of 3 infantry companies were actually dropped at manado, and done so over a two day period (~490 total troops dropped out of ~850 total). So these are split into “drop” units, having most of the infantry squads, and “follow on” units, having the arty, remaining infantry, etc.. Don’t want to recombine the pieces of 1st and 3rd Yok SNLF if you want them drop capable.

Set up the navy transport squadrons, flying Tinas, for these (sub 21st air flotilla), and lo and behold! They actually pick up and drop ~500 troops. The amazing Timtom strikes again!

Allies in the PI and DEI (and OZ) are done. All that remains is Malaya. Woof! Getting there.

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Post #: 49
RE: DEI Question - 12/27/2010 4:27:53 PM   
JWE

 

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Well - When ya look at the PI, Malaya, and the DEI planning, maybe a Jan. 8 start is more like it. Here's where we are with unit/hex setups and the timelines that unit and ship arrivals/locations are 'generally' scheduled to conform to. If it is done as it was done, it works really smooth, but nothing is limited. One can do as they wish as of Jan. 9. The only real limitation is that 2nd Div doesn't become available on Taiwan to 16 Army till February. The others are suggested self-limitations; 48 Div really belongs to 16 Army for DEI ops (they are the ones who hit Java), and should be bought out is a player wishes to retain it for PI ops. It's cheap, because only the HQ unit belongs to an Army HQ (component LCUs belong to the Div HQ), but we cut PP points to the bone, and there is no monthly increase, so cost can become 'interesting' if the Scen is played as intended.

Malaya – Just after Slim River.
Jan. 08, 21, 42 Inf/5 Div at Kuala Lampur, moving on Gemas/Malacca;
Jan. 08, 11, 41 Inf/5 Div E of Kuala Lampur, moving on Gemas/Malacca;
Jan. 08, 18 Div at Kuantan, 55 Inf/18 Div prepping for landing north of Mersing;
Jan. 08, Gd Div at Pt Swettenham, 3 Inf/Gd prepping for landing at Batu Pahat, 4, 5 Inf/Gd moving on Pt Dickson;
Remnants of III Corps retreat into Johore, on the line Malacca/Gemas/Mersing.
Jan. 15, 3 Inf/GD landings at Batu Pahat (Muar), 55 Inf/18 landings at Mersing (Endau);
Jan. 15, 5 Div assaults Malacca/Batu Pahat (Gemas), preps Kluong and Johore Bahru;
Jan. 30, 5 Div, 18 Div take Johore Bahru, isolate Singapore.

DEI – Just after Jolo/Kuching/Singkawang.
Jan. 08, 124 Inf /18 Div, elements begin barge ops against North Borneo – ex Brunei;
Jan. 11, Yokosuka 1st jumps on, and Sasebo 1st and 2nd assault, Manado – ex Davao;
Jan. 11, Kure 2nd and 146 Inf (+)/56 Div, assault Tarakan – ex Davao;
Jan. 24, Sakaguchi (146 Inf) assaults Balikpapan – ex Tarakan;
Jan. 24, Sasebo 1st and 2nd assault Kendari – ex Manado;
Jan. 30, Kure 1st and 228 Inf /38 Div assault Amboina – ex Davao;
Feb. 09, Sasebo 1st and 2nd assault Makassar – ex Kendari;
Feb. 10, Sakaguchi (146 Inf) assaults Bandjermasin – ex Balikpapan;

PI – Just after Layac Junction.
Jan. 06, 48 Div and 5 Air Div relieved and transferred from 14 to 16 Army for DEI ops (oops);
Jan. 06, 48 Div replaced by 65 Brig;
Jan. 16, 16 Div elements attack Abucay, Siege/Battle of Bataan begins in earnest;

That’s the sitrep at the end of the first week of Jan. Needless to say, everybody is heavily depleted, disabled, disrupted, and fatigued. Unfortunately, there are no replacements (pools or otherwise) for Allied units; destroyed means gone forever. In the PI and Malaya, marginal (useless) units like BF vestiges, constabulary, LOC troops, and the like, are removed from the Scen. The troops are used to flesh out severely depleted combat units with bodies, and to add a bit to the Support elements. This is to reduce the display extravaganza of worthless units (i.e., AvSup squads with no wrenches serve better as abstracted stretcher bearers).

Units and Bases are pretty much done; just a skoosh more detail to mess with. Doing the Naval stuff, now; setting up the TFs and timing. Woof ! Almost as hard as the land stuff. Getting there, though. Soon.


< Message edited by JWE -- 12/27/2010 4:47:50 PM >


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Post #: 50
RE: DEI Question - 12/27/2010 8:41:17 PM   
Alfred

 

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Interesting that the start is on 8 January post Slim River rather than allowing the historical 7 January rout at Slim River to be played out by the players. Probably helps the Allied player who otherwise might be pursued and avoids the plethora of "display extravaganza of worthless units".

Alfred

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Post #: 51
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