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New Patch destroys R&D

 
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New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 4:25:19 PM   
cap_and_gown


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I had advanced both the Frank a version and Tony Id to January 1944. After applying the patch, however, their arrival dates have been pushed back to the original dates of 4/44. All my R&D did me absolutely no good.



< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 11/27/2010 4:28:56 PM >
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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 4:28:12 PM   
witpqs

 

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Have you tried the patch without OOB changes?

BTW, see my email too.

(in reply to cap_and_gown)
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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 4:56:26 PM   
hkbhsi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

I had advanced both the Frank a version and Tony Id to January 1944. After applying the patch, however, their arrival dates have been pushed back to the original dates of 4/44. All my R&D did me absolutely no good.




I have the same problem and the Tojo also immediately switched to use the Ha 34 Engine messing all my production. Me and my opponent have decided to not upgrade the database changes. OTOH if you do not update the database you will still be able to use drop tanks on the Judys so we agreed on a HR that will prohibit Japan to use them.

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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 5:41:32 PM   
RUDOLF


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IT works all ok for me.

My Franks still arrive in August 1943... and my Tojos use Ha-35...
Patch is installed and work properlly, it has not effected the Scenario/Database of my already ongoing game.

Are you sure you updated in the correct way?

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Post #: 4
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 5:58:33 PM   
Bradley7735


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RUDOLF

IT works all ok for me.

My Franks still arrive in August 1943... and my Tojos use Ha-35...
Patch is installed and work properlly, it has not effected the Scenario/Database of my already ongoing game.

Are you sure you updated in the correct way?


Are you playing modified scenario? The patch only updates the official scenarios.

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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 7:38:19 PM   
RUDOLF


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735


quote:

ORIGINAL: RUDOLF

IT works all ok for me.

My Franks still arrive in August 1943... and my Tojos use Ha-35...
Patch is installed and work properlly, it has not effected the Scenario/Database of my already ongoing game.

Are you sure you updated in the correct way?


Are you playing modified scenario? The patch only updates the official scenarios.




Well yes, we play a scenario allowing IJN fighters to upgrade to any type of availeble IJN fighter.
Mabye that is the reason then.

I do get the code changes however, my Radar stations now detect B24's 160 NM out.



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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 7:51:12 PM   
Smeulders

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RUDOLF


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735


quote:

ORIGINAL: RUDOLF

IT works all ok for me.

My Franks still arrive in August 1943... and my Tojos use Ha-35...
Patch is installed and work properlly, it has not effected the Scenario/Database of my already ongoing game.

Are you sure you updated in the correct way?


Are you playing modified scenario? The patch only updates the official scenarios.




Well yes, we play a scenario allowing IJN fighters to upgrade to any type of availeble IJN fighter.
Mabye that is the reason then.

I do get the code changes however, my Radar stations now detect B24's 160 NM out.




That would be it then, the code changes affect all games, but the database changes only affect the stock scenarios.

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Post #: 7
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/27/2010 10:36:33 PM   
viberpol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

I had advanced both the Frank a version and Tony Id to January 1944. After applying the patch, however, their arrival dates have been pushed back to the original dates of 4/44. All my R&D did me absolutely no good.



I feel your pain cap_and_gown. I checked my PBEM game and it's the same.
Weird though, that engine acceleration seems to be preserved only aircrafts fall back to the original dates...
That does seem to ruin games.. feel like changing terms of the game during play is not fair nor understandable.


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Post #: 8
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 12:24:13 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol


quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

I had advanced both the Frank a version and Tony Id to January 1944. After applying the patch, however, their arrival dates have been pushed back to the original dates of 4/44. All my R&D did me absolutely no good.



I feel your pain cap_and_gown. I checked my PBEM game and it's the same.
Weird though, that engine acceleration seems to be preserved only aircrafts fall back to the original dates...
That does seem to ruin games.. feel like changing terms of the game during play is not fair nor understandable.


"Just say no"

That is the reason you are asked if you want to accept the database changes. If you just say no, no changes will be made to your on-going game.

(in reply to viberpol)
Post #: 9
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 12:42:41 AM   
cap_and_gown


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Back up, rerun the last turn using the old version, then install the patch again, only this time, do not do the database update. That is what I did.

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Post #: 10
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 1:27:54 AM   
michaelm


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The dates are only updated if there is no current development on the aircraft or engine.
This means that there is a window when the database update could kick in and wipe out the R&D advancement - just after the R&D advanced (by reaching 100 development points) and it reset the development counter back to 0.

That is why it probable worked for you by going forward a day and updating again - a development point was most likely added in that turn and no update would happen. [edit just re-read post and noticed you didn't update at all. That works too.]
[You could have used new EXE and just said no to the database update for first turn, and then yes the next time.]

I'll make a simple change to always keep at least one R&D point available once development kicks.


< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/28/2010 1:47:50 AM >


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Post #: 11
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 1:42:45 AM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

"Just say no"

That is the reason you are asked if you want to accept the database changes. If you just say no, no changes will be made to your on-going game.


Right, some people holler that all changes should be automatic for everything ... other people holler about the changes that are applied to ongoing games. For me, I would not want to change an ongoing game. We started a game, we were dealt the cards, we should finish it!



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Post #: 12
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 2:14:45 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Back up, rerun the last turn using the old version, then install the patch again, only this time, do not do the database update. That is what I did.


Actually there is no reason to revert the version. Instead just rerun the last turn and this time say NO to database changes. As long as you load a turn saved under the old version, you will always be asked if you wish to update the database.

(in reply to cap_and_gown)
Post #: 13
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 2:19:36 AM   
cap_and_gown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Back up, rerun the last turn using the old version, then install the patch again, only this time, do not do the database update. That is what I did.


Actually there is no reason to revert the version. Instead just rerun the last turn and this time say NO to database changes. As long as you load a turn saved under the old version, you will always be asked if you wish to update the database.


You should always do the turn resolution using the version the orders were issued under. Once the turn has been resolved, then you do the upgrade. That is why I suggest rerunning under the old version before upgrading.

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Post #: 14
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 2:41:31 AM   
ADB123

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

"Just say no"

That is the reason you are asked if you want to accept the database changes. If you just say no, no changes will be made to your on-going game.


Right, some people holler that all changes should be automatic for everything ... other people holler about the changes that are applied to ongoing games. For me, I would not want to change an ongoing game. We started a game, we were dealt the cards, we should finish it!




Joe - I've always assumed that Data Base changes were like bug fixes, and made things better/more correct/fixed, and so on. So I've always assumed that the DB changes were necessary. So I happily said "yes" and now almost all of my subs have fresh System Damage - mainly to their deck guns but also in a few cases to torpedo tubes. So in this case, what I thought would be an improvement has turned into a bug...

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Post #: 15
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 6:23:40 AM   
michaelm


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The update process has been around since first patch and is generally sound.

quote:

So I've always assumed that the DB changes were necessary.


It is up to the player(s) if they wish to apply the DB changes while a game is in progress. The reason for the question "Do you want to..".
It is not mandatory.

The issue why all your subs have SYS damage would not be due to the patch update itself, but something else. Please attach the save you used to update from to the post in the support forum.

[edit]
Ships are not touched by the DB updates, just the Device, Aircraft, Ship class and TOEs.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/28/2010 6:31:29 AM >


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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 10:56:21 AM   
d0mbo

 

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I loaded the turn on an old databse sent to me by my opponent. It only said the database was changed? I had the choice of accepting the turn and loading it OR i could say no and then the turn wouldnt load.

WHat gives?

Did my opponent update already? (I am the JAP side).


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Post #: 17
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 11:25:03 AM   
viberpol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack
"Just say no"
That is the reason you are asked if you want to accept the database changes. If you just say no, no changes will be made to your on-going game.

For me, I would not want to change an ongoing game. We started a game, we were dealt the cards, we should finish it!


That's OK, I 100% agree. Cards are on the table. Play with it.
But... I have no problem with fixing clear mistakes in the database. It's always good news. But... if this database update resets my 2 years old R&D program, then there is something wrong with it.

Especially if you find that ALL aircraft R&D is reset to default level while engine R&D is preserved... How come?

< Message edited by viberpol -- 11/28/2010 11:55:29 AM >


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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 1:52:20 PM   
michaelm


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It is a timing thing.
It will only reset to the old date if at the end of a R&D cycle which 1 in 100 chance (assuming it gains 1 R&D point per day, that is 1 in every 100 days it would be likely to get reset)

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Post #: 19
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 3:05:56 PM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It is a timing thing.
It will only reset to the old date if at the end of a R&D cycle which 1 in 100 chance (assuming it gains 1 R&D point per day, that is 1 in every 100 days it would be likely to get reset)


michaelm:
It also resets a/c that have already completed R&D. It is a 1% probability for a/c in R&D but 100% for a/c who have completed R&D for games currently before the original completion date

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Post #: 20
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 3:21:45 PM   
viberpol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

It is a timing thing.
It will only reset to the old date if at the end of a R&D cycle which 1 in 100 chance (assuming it gains 1 R&D point per day, that is 1 in every 100 days it would be likely to get reset)


Yeah, right...
See the Tracker info below. It's a part of the PBEM research program.

You suggest that those not-so-important planes researched got just bad dice rolls/"timing" and are in the wrong time in the wrong place???
Sorry, but I am not buying this explanation.

533 is the database upgrade day (today). As I see it it resets almost all researched and already accelerated frames!
While the change in actually produced frames is understandable, I cannot accept the idea behind resetting all aircraft R&D.
Note also that none engine R&D has been reset.







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by viberpol -- 11/28/2010 3:23:21 PM >


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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 5:17:02 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol
That's OK, I 100% agree. Cards are on the table. Play with it.


Follow your own advice - don't apply the in game update and your R&D will be fine.




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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 5:19:08 PM   
castor troy


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Patched the game and didn´t even got asked for db changes or not.

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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 5:20:43 PM   
cap_and_gown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Patched the game and didn´t even got asked for db changes or not.


If you are playing the allied side, you wouldn't be asked, would you?

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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 5:23:22 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Patched the game and didn´t even got asked for db changes or not.


If you are playing the allied side, you wouldn't be asked, would you?




but how does the game know what I´m playing when I just click the patch exe? And what if I would like to start an IJN game after updating?

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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 5:26:21 PM   
Smeulders

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Patched the game and didn´t even got asked for db changes or not.


If you are playing the allied side, you wouldn't be asked, would you?




but how does the game know what I´m playing when I just click the patch exe? And what if I would like to start an IJN game after updating?


Updating the DB for games in progress would be done when opening the save file I think.

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Post #: 26
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 5:49:00 PM   
Rainer

 

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quote:

If you are playing the allied side, you wouldn't be asked, would you?



Playing Allied vs AI you ARE asked.

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Post #: 27
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 7:17:37 PM   
ChezDaJez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

I loaded the turn on an old databse sent to me by my opponent. It only said the database was changed? I had the choice of accepting the turn and loading it OR i could say no and then the turn wouldnt load.

WHat gives?

Did my opponent update already? (I am the JAP side).





Does sound like your opponent upgraded and then sent you the turn. Not sure if you simply upgrading and running the turn will take care of it but subsequent turns should be ok I would think.

Chez


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RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 7:47:48 PM   
michaelm


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Upon request, I went back and check the code for 1106i. It is different to my current new code which I had checked.

The original code updates the date if R&D points are 0 (as I have said) OR there are no planes in the pool.

The second condition is missing from my new code so I must have at some stage determined that this was a problem.

This also explains why the a/c engine seems to be okay as it only checks the first condition in both my old and new code.

Sorry for my mistake. Trying to balance two codes at the same time is difficult at the best of time.

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Post #: 29
RE: New Patch destroys R&D - 11/28/2010 10:00:28 PM   
viberpol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol
That's OK, I 100% agree. Cards are on the table. Play with it.

Follow your own advice - don't apply the in game update and your R&D will be fine.


But I also do want to play game with as much mistakes corrected as possible AND, at the same time, the game that does not ruin the production program.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
Upon request, I went back and check the code for 1106i. It is different to my current new code which I had checked.
The original code updates the date if R&D points are 0 (as I have said) OR there are no planes in the pool.
The second condition is missing from my new code so I must have at some stage determined that this was a problem.

Sorry for my mistake. Trying to balance two codes at the same time is difficult at the best of time.


This explains why R&D frames (= 0 produced/0 in the pool) are reset with the latest patch.
It gives us hope for correcting clear data mistakes with proper update patch working.

Thanks a lot Michael! Great insight & nice job in pinpointing the problem, as usual.
If only you more frequently believed in what the players say...
Sometimes, they're right...

< Message edited by viberpol -- 11/28/2010 10:01:33 PM >


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