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RE: How much - 12/8/2010 2:56:18 AM   
Zemke_4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Whew. I love price threads. Anytime I can't get indulge in self-flagellation I just read these posts. Joel Billings gave the perfect and sensible response. Hell, if Matrix or any company knew "exactly" what people would pay then what a sweet life they would have. But this entire thread is proof of the difficulty in determining a particular price point. I really thought this game would be even more expensive and I was shocked that it was not. It seemed after that years of work a monster game of this quality would be in the $120-140 range. I would have paid just about any price for this game. If I could not afford $89 or $99 today, then I would wait for a price drop or holiday sale.

Despite the fact that I have the mentality of a young child(according to..) how can someone say $70 I can afford, but not $19 more? Jeez, nineteen bucks in most places is about what two movie tickets go for. Two people eating at most fast food places spend $10-$17(says the WSJ). I just do not believe most of us can't cough up an extra $20 or $30. If not this minute then maybe in a week or four?

This thread was

Ok, beat the crap out of me because I dare think $20 is nothing. Go ahead, it's easy to beat up someone like me-'cause I intellectual mentality of a seven year old(so says....)!


Right On! I was surprised by the price too, I was thinking a monster gem like this would cost well over a $100, and I would not have thought twice about paying it, because this is the wargame I have been waiting on for many years. TOAW was just too general, and HPS was just to small scale, this game is my "Fire in the East" game without the 4x8 sheat of plywood to play it on.

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Post #: 121
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 3:00:14 AM   
jhak


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104$ for digital download.. Gotta love living in EU. I guess i'll be waiting past christmas.

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Post #: 122
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 3:03:44 AM   
hgilmer3


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This is going to be another War in Russia for me.  I'll be playing it 10 years from now.  I'm usually very pessimistic - (I have some other games from here that I have just bit my tongue because others like them and I don't want to rain on their parade.  You can probably deduce which ones if you knew me well enough and were on all the websites I am on.  That's all I will say on that!)  But, I'm optimistic on this one.  

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Post #: 123
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 5:18:27 AM   
jomni


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Not surprised with the price.  I think it is appropriate for the scope and quality of the game.

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Post #: 124
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 5:31:55 AM   
yoshino


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I thought too.As a comparing to WitP,this price is understandable.
Although,recently I have bought Distant Worlds(and will buy with the upcoming expansion),I would have to be waiting a while.

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Post #: 125
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 5:47:35 AM   
Aurelian

 

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I wasn't happy at first with the price. But I bought it anyway.

Spent far more than that on the SPW WW1 board game series, still have the Ottoman game to buy.

Witp and Witp AE combined cost far less than Decision Games WiTp.

And take up far less room.

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Post #: 126
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 6:06:23 AM   
Sheytan


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I will agree with that. I owned SPI's War in the East and War in the West. The maps took up my living room floor. Thats the best thing about computer games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

I wasn't happy at first with the price. But I bought it anyway.

Spent far more than that on the SPW WW1 board game series, still have the Ottoman game to buy.

Witp and Witp AE combined cost far less than Decision Games WiTp.

And take up far less room.


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Post #: 127
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 6:27:39 AM   
dlazov66


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I have been playing war games since about 1978 and started with computer war games in the early 90s.

I can very well remember when the folio games from SPI (paper and cardboard wargames) were 5 bucks a piece now DG is redoing them again for about 20 a piece. Also back in 78 SPI's War in East was like 30 and War in Europe was 40 and War in the Pacific came in at 50. When DG re-released War in Europe in 1999 it sold for $199.00 and War in the Pacific sold for $450.00.

I still play and purchase board war games, sometimes spending 200-500 at a time for a few games, today the average paper and card board game (one map and 200 counters) is around 45 to 50 dollars and larger games go for 60 to 300 per game. It's just part of the hobby and times.

In the early nineties you could buy Steel Panthers or COW for about 35 to 40 bucks and the prices now have gone up.

The one thing I can say from testing the **** out 1943 to 1944 is that you'll have many, many hours, days and years to play the snot out of this game. It's that good, that addicting and that well made, a true classic in computer war games.

I have about $800 to $1200 invested in my favorite board war game, Advanced Squad Leader (I have stuff stashed all over the house...), and it's all money well spent for my and others I play enjoyment. You can't get that kind of return on movie (at least a clean one...lol), sports event (unless it involves lots of cheer leaders) or most other types of entertainment and War in the East delivers that and more.

To summarize this and put price into perspective to get a basic starting kit of ASL; the rule book, 10 maps, 24 scenarios and all the Russians and Germans costs $195.00 plus shipping (ASLRB = $80, Beyond Valor = $115). They may seem like a lot but after a year or so the investment pays off. In my mind War in the East is the same, the return on investment (money and or time or both) pays off when you realize its 4:00 am on a Monday morning and you realize you have been bashing the keyboard since Friday night with little or nothing to eat for 3 days.

priceless


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Post #: 128
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 7:05:27 AM   
Aurelian

 

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$80 is kind of steep on its face. But you really, really, get alot for it. This very well could be in the $400 range if it was a board game.

Then again, way back when I remember ads in S&T, or was it MOVES, for computer Bismarck. It was called the $2,160 wargame. (The game was $60.)

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Post #: 129
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 7:45:07 AM   
randallw

 

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Maybe someone from Matrix, 2x3, or whoever would be in the know, can shed some light on this: how do the production costs for a game like this compare to some high selling first person shooter with 3D gourad shading, ammo casings plinking on the ground, and all that good stuff?

I know that giving full info would probably be a no-no, company secrets and all that, but maybe some thing that would be meaningful?

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Post #: 130
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 7:49:24 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Maybe someone from Matrix, 2x3, or whoever would be in the know, can shed some light on this: how do the production costs for a game like this compare to some high selling first person shooter with 3D gourad shading, ammo casings plinking on the ground, and all that good stuff?

I know that giving full info would probably be a no-no, company secrets and all that, but maybe some thing that would be meaningful?


Can't compare. You also have to take into consideration the number of units you can sell. Producing fancy 3D stuff takes a lot of work and a big development team. Costs run in the millions. But sales can compensate as these can sell millions of copies worldwide.


Even if Matrix games costs a fractin of this, the potential sales volume is also considerably less.


< Message edited by jomni -- 12/8/2010 7:50:20 AM >

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Post #: 131
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 8:13:09 AM   
Lützow


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As a side note: WitE demanded almost same bucks as I had to pay for the Steam version of CoD and this game just provides a 6h single player campaign. Not that I would consider to acquire a mindless Egoshooter, but many people do and even the average video game on vendor shelf takes about $ 65,- here. For German standards there is no large price gap toward the more expensive Matrix titles.

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Post #: 132
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 8:27:27 AM   
boudi

 

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Who can give 80 € VAT included for a videogame ? who ?

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Post #: 133
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 8:32:56 AM   
fsp


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For me, they got the price just right. Obviously, I would have enjoyed a price of $1, but that's not realistic.

It boggles my mind how some people seem to forget how many hours of gaming they will get out of this. If you divide the price by the number of hours you will be playing this, you will surely result with x Cents/hour. Regarding the price, this is about one of the cheapest pastimes you can have.

I do understand that some have a personal limit to what a game may cost. If any game was above $100, I would very seriously have to think about it and very, very likely not buy it. That is an arbitrary limit set by myself, so I cannot judge others whose limit might be 60, 70, 80, or whatever.

If you don't believe you will get at least 100 hours of gaming out of this, maybe you should consider not buying it. If you do, I don't see the problem with the price tag, honestly. If I just think about the monthly bill for my mobile (we used to live without those...)...

I think that a full demo will not be released as it might be too easy to simply remove the time-limit. I would be wary as well as a developer.

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Post #: 134
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:07:33 AM   
jmlima

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boudi

Who can give 80 € VAT included for a videogame ? who ?


I'm baffled by the above. At today's rate and including 17.5% VAT, 80$ are 70€. Where are the extra 10 going?

(BTW, price is as expected. If it works, it will be worth the price. But I'm still waiting for the patches to roll in before buying it.)

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Post #: 135
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:29:09 AM   
Apollo11


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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima

But I'm still waiting for the patches to roll in before buying it.)


You really don't have to wait...

The WitE is perfectly playable and enjoyable as it is right now (of course we hope that there are no glaring problems that would hamper the gameplay)!

As for patches - you don't have to worry at all - the 2By3 and Matrix are famous for their continued support and care!!!

Just look at older Gary Grigsby titles like UV / WitP and WitP-AE and support and patched they all received (and still receive) after all these years!


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 136
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:29:22 AM   
E

 

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Aren't price threads fun!! Okay, I bought the original version game (pictured below) for $60.00 in the 80's. I bought the DOS version for $40.00 in the 90's. So it is obvious that this version should be $20.00!! And as it is being sold during the Christmas sale-time, it should have 33% off, so figure $14.00 (if YOU'RE paying, always round down!). Now, If I use some of the logic used in the thread above, I won't be playing it 24 hours a day, but 18 tops. So the price should be reduced to $9.00 (if YOU'RE paying, always round down!). Now, I certainly won't play it every day either. There are "family" holidays that she-who-must-be-obeyed will makes sure that I can't. So after removing those days from the price, and adjusting for consumer price indexing, cost of living increases, inflation, leap years, etc, etc. To make a long story short...


Matrix, you owe me a download link, serial number, and $25.00!


(you know that I KNOW Who's on first!)







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Post #: 137
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:42:39 AM   
boudi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: boudi

Who can give 80 € VAT included for a videogame ? who ?


I'm baffled by the above. At today's rate and including 17.5% VAT, 80$ are 70€. Where are the extra 10 going?



63,99 EUR + VAT(19,6% France) 12,54 EUR = 76,53 EUR. (rounded to 80 € in my previous post).

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Post #: 138
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:44:50 AM   
jmlima

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boudi


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmlima


quote:

ORIGINAL: boudi

Who can give 80 € VAT included for a videogame ? who ?


I'm baffled by the above. At today's rate and including 17.5% VAT, 80$ are 70€. Where are the extra 10 going?



63,99 EUR + VAT(19,6% France) 12,54 EUR = 76,53 EUR. (rounded to 80 € in my previous post).



That being the case we would need different prices for different VAT rates. VAT is not 19.6 in the UK.

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Post #: 139
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:45:41 AM   
dobeln

 

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I trust that Matrix know what they are doing here (I.e. charging a niche market a premium price). 20 bucks is not a major issue to me, so I don´t really care on a substantial level, but as reactions to price are to some degree determined by rules of thumb ("X should cost about Y dollars", etc.) the price does raise an eyebrow.

As a side note, a demo would be nice, perhaps of Road to Minsk, etc?

Also, to expand the market, perhaps it´s time to start up iPhone / iPad development? Good interface for wargaming - putting Panzercorps on the iPad at a reasonable price point could probably shift a lot of copies while also building brand awareness and goodwill for wargaming in general. There are already some iOs PG clones, so the market is there to be fought over.

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Post #: 140
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:50:38 AM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

Funny most people will drop 100 bucks just going to the movies and a dinner and not think a thing about it.


More!!!

Dinner (for 2) with a decent steak and wine = $150.00+
Movie (for 2) with food and drink = $50.00.

Entertainment is no longer cheap.


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Post #: 141
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 9:52:49 AM   
ratdeath

 

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The price is fine.

Advanced Squad Leader + Beyond Valor costs a lot more.
Some other boardgame (east front) from MMP (operational) costs like $160 (preorder $120).

While it's a lot cheaper to make copies of a computer game I think there other costs that need to be cowered compared to a boardgame, like making sure that it works on as many computers as possible and hunt down and eliminate bugs. A boardgame should without much testing be compatible with most tables :P

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Post #: 142
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 10:03:31 AM   
redmarkus4


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I think the price reflects the standard marketing strategy for niche or luxury products.

First you pull in the early adopters at the highest possible price. Then the followers come on board as the price falls over 12-18 months. The price point has to reflect the small size of the market/small number of units sold, the development cost and channel costs, plus margins. 2by3 and Matric both need to make a profit, after all...

Personally, as an early adopter, I don't plan on buying anything else for the next several months and I will probably play WiTE and WiTP AE exclusively for the next 12 months. So, the price of this game is only about 20% of my normal gaming budget for that kind of time period.

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Post #: 143
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 10:04:47 AM   
redmarkus4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratdeath

The price is fine.

Advanced Squad Leader + Beyond Valor costs a lot more.
Some other boardgame (east front) from MMP (operational) costs like $160 (preorder $120).

While it's a lot cheaper to make copies of a computer game I think there other costs that need to be cowered compared to a boardgame, like making sure that it works on as many computers as possible and hunt down and eliminate bugs. A boardgame should without much testing be compatible with most tables :P

I am not sure about that - I never did find a table to fit Grand Europa ;)

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Post #: 144
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 10:07:31 AM   
jomni


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Buying all HPS Campaings titles relating to WW2 Eastern Front will cost you $350 (7 titles at $50).
At least this game has similar coverage (and maybe more) and costs significantly less.
You get better graphics and UI as a bonus.
Downside is less scenarios but you get to play a grand campaign from start to finish.

< Message edited by jomni -- 12/8/2010 10:09:11 AM >

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Post #: 145
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 11:50:54 AM   
JudgeDredd


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£65 is over my "normal" limit of £50 for a game - but I was expecting it this time and also held off purchases of other games in order to get this

Bearing in mind that the price includes 17.5% VAT (UK tax), a physical copy and delivery, I was pleasantly surprised by the price.

Thx

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Post #: 146
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 11:53:51 AM   
cantona2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jhak

104$ for digital download.. Gotta love living in EU. I guess i'll be waiting past christmas.



I'm in the EU and ive paid $79.99 for digital download which equates to roughly £50. Beats all these latest consol games at the same price

< Message edited by cantona2 -- 12/8/2010 11:54:32 AM >


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Post #: 147
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 12:06:04 PM   
Templer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2

quote:

ORIGINAL: jhak

104$ for digital download.. Gotta love living in EU. I guess i'll be waiting past christmas.



I'm in the EU and ive paid $79.99 for digital download which equates to roughly £50. Beats all these latest consol games at the same price


Exactly!

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Post #: 148
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 1:14:23 PM   
Harald1050


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I wonder why the price is Euro 63,99 for the DL-Edition and after clicking on the button to buy it the price is Euro 64,99 plus VAT.

Can anyone tell? Thanks.

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Post #: 149
RE: How much - 12/8/2010 1:28:43 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10890
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quote:

ORIGINAL: E

Aren't price threads fun!! Okay, I bought the original version game (pictured below) for $60.00 in the 80's. I bought the DOS version for $40.00 in the 90's. So it is obvious that this version should be $20.00!! And as it is being sold during the Christmas sale-time, it should have 33% off, so figure $14.00 (if YOU'RE paying, always round down!). Now, If I use some of the logic used in the thread above, I won't be playing it 24 hours a day, but 18 tops. So the price should be reduced to $9.00 (if YOU'RE paying, always round down!). Now, I certainly won't play it every day either. There are "family" holidays that she-who-must-be-obeyed will makes sure that I can't. So after removing those days from the price, and adjusting for consumer price indexing, cost of living increases, inflation, leap years, etc, etc. To make a long story short...


Matrix, you owe me a download link, serial number, and $25.00!


(you know that I KNOW Who's on first!)








Haha, you nailed it :)

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Post #: 150
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