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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Lock ‘n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad >> Happy Thanksgiving! Page: [1]
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Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/24/2010 7:16:19 AM   
Gunhawk

 

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Don't eat too much! Have a good time! And let's all meet next year to see the next screen shot!
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RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/24/2010 7:21:36 AM   
V22 Osprey


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A thanksgiving thread reviving an otherwise dead forum?

Anyway, happy thanksgiving.

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(in reply to Gunhawk)
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RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/24/2010 11:10:22 AM   
undercovergeek

 

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keep on trying gunhawk, im sure each and every snarky forum post you write makes Mark think 'oh god yeah id forgotten about this, and id promised gunhawk a game too!!!! id better get right on it'

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RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/24/2010 4:05:44 PM   
Gunhawk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

keep on trying gunhawk, im sure each and every snarky forum post you write makes Mark think 'oh god yeah id forgotten about this, and id promised gunhawk a game too!!!! id better get right on it'


Sorry if I offended you. So occasionally I make a sarcastic comment. So what? (shrug) There really isn't anything else to talk about in this forum. Is there? I haven't seen a post for a couple of weeks because there's nothing to say. I dunno. Maybe getting somebody's attention at Lock n' Load every once in a while *might* keep their interest up. Otherwise why should they bother trying to move this project along. The way PC games have been changing over the years there might not be a decent market for this game anymore. The *real* money is in on-line games like World of Warcraft, shoot 'em ups like the Medal of Honor series, and well established franchises like Civilization. Yes, I know that Lock n' Load is not Blizzard Entertainment. This has been patiently explained to me many many times before, but eventually, for *any* game company, no matter how small, there comes a point where it isn't worth it to produce a game anymore no matter how much time and effort has been put into it because it's marketability is long past. That's what I'm mostly concerned about with "Waiting for Stalingrad". That the opportunity to sell to this niche fan base is slipping away year by year and that eventually the project will be dropped. If Mark's businessman's eye is on the ball, it's a matter of how much return he can get for his investment. Nothing else.

(in reply to undercovergeek)
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RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/25/2010 1:28:15 AM   
wodin


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Unless all of us wargamers suddenly drop the hobby I can't see how it wouldn't have a market anytime in the future...just wont happen, I mean Wargaming is in a golden age at the moment with loads of great board wargames being developed aswell as a steady supply of PC wargames.

Go check consim world forum....thousands of wargamers who post there and with games like Conflict of Heroes doing very well indeed I can't see how this PC game when ever it gets released would have few buyers because it missed the boat...there is no boat...The games appeal is the same as ASL, ATS, COH and the Lock n Load tactical games...some of the most popular boardgames and one has being going on for well over 20 years...

The game will sell as many copies if it came out tomorrow as it would if it is in another 5 years time if it plays well.

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(in reply to Gunhawk)
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RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/25/2010 5:26:25 AM   
Gunhawk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Unless all of us wargamers suddenly drop the hobby I can't see how it wouldn't have a market anytime in the future...just wont happen, I mean Wargaming is in a golden age at the moment with loads of great board wargames being developed aswell as a steady supply of PC wargames.

Go check consim world forum....thousands of wargamers who post there and with games like Conflict of Heroes doing very well indeed I can't see how this PC game when ever it gets released would have few buyers because it missed the boat...there is no boat...The games appeal is the same as ASL, ATS, COH and the Lock n Load tactical games...some of the most popular boardgames and one has being going on for well over 20 years...

The game will sell as many copies if it came out tomorrow as it would if it is in another 5 years time if it plays well.


I disagree that wargaming is in it's "golden age". The "golden age" of "IGOUGO" historic board simulations is *long* past. I can remember when Avalon Hill and SPI games were in bookstores and toy stores everywhere. SPI went bankrupt in the 80's and Avalon Hill stopped publishing in 1998. In it's current form AH publishes a few titles and there are some from small publishers like "Lock n' Load", and yes, there are a few good PC wargames out there too, but *nothing* like the number of wargames available during the true "Golden Age" of the 70's and 80's. If you attend the World Board Gaming Championships you can see that historic wargames are being replaced by Euro type games, and many of today's PC games that are *really* popular are "real time" or first person shooters. In short, if you think that wargaming, as we play it, is going to be remain popular in the future, you are just not paying attention. The fact that consimworld has a couple of thousand members doesn't really mean anything as World of Warcraft has a couple of *million* players that are willing to pay a monthly fee. *That's* the future of gaming.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 6
RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/25/2010 11:24:44 AM   
undercovergeek

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunhawk


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Unless all of us wargamers suddenly drop the hobby I can't see how it wouldn't have a market anytime in the future...just wont happen, I mean Wargaming is in a golden age at the moment with loads of great board wargames being developed aswell as a steady supply of PC wargames.

Go check consim world forum....thousands of wargamers who post there and with games like Conflict of Heroes doing very well indeed I can't see how this PC game when ever it gets released would have few buyers because it missed the boat...there is no boat...The games appeal is the same as ASL, ATS, COH and the Lock n Load tactical games...some of the most popular boardgames and one has being going on for well over 20 years...

The game will sell as many copies if it came out tomorrow as it would if it is in another 5 years time if it plays well.


I disagree that wargaming is in it's "golden age". The "golden age" of "IGOUGO" historic board simulations is *long* past. I can remember when Avalon Hill and SPI games were in bookstores and toy stores everywhere. SPI went bankrupt in the 80's and Avalon Hill stopped publishing in 1998. In it's current form AH publishes a few titles and there are some from small publishers like "Lock n' Load", and yes, there are a few good PC wargames out there too, but *nothing* like the number of wargames available during the true "Golden Age" of the 70's and 80's. If you attend the World Board Gaming Championships you can see that historic wargames are being replaced by Euro type games, and many of today's PC games that are *really* popular are "real time" or first person shooters. In short, if you think that wargaming, as we play it, is going to be remain popular in the future, you are just not paying attention. The fact that consimworld has a couple of thousand members doesn't really mean anything as World of Warcraft has a couple of *million* players that are willing to pay a monthly fee. *That's* the future of gaming.


mark sells his board games when 500 people have preordered, thats his magic number - i anticipate hell have one for this game too, i dont think he intends to convert the masses, it could be just 3000 - and theres that many waiting already. A good review in the mags and on the net and more people will become interested. Subscription fantasy s*** might be the future of gaming, but we who are here will always be left behind by that - Wodins right about ASL and its loyal fans, and god knows how many are waiting in the wings for World in Flames.

I took no offense in your comment and meant none in my reply, i just dont believe someone nudging mark in the ribs and saying hey that Gunhawk guys asking for the game again is ever, ever going to make him go faster - if you follow them on facebook you can see that board games are their priority and thats what pays the bills - this is a luxury, a toy even, fiddled with and tinkered when there is absolutely, positively nothing else to do after youve put food on the table and paid the wages. Were all waiting Gunhawk and i believe as ive got older and busier i understand more marks frustrations - if he said well guys March 2012 is that going to make you feel better? if he came on daily and said i dont know, will that make you feel better?

(in reply to Gunhawk)
Post #: 7
RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/25/2010 11:35:13 AM   
wodin


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Gunhawk,

Many of the older boardgamers on Consim world forums say it's the golden age at the moment and they've been around for years....just look at how many games are in development...how popular boardgame review websites are.....yeah Avalon Hill went and SPI but have you seen how many companies are producing games? A fair amount to be sure...ANother thing alot of new wargames have done away with igougo mechanic...the production values have risen ten fold aswell...so they must be making money somewhere along the line.

What has Warcraft got to do with wargamers??? Wargaming has never been a mass market hobby....but there will always be people playing wargames and some probably play Warcraft but there is no rule you can only play one is there? Your kidding yourself if you really think all those wargamers out there are suddeny going to stop because of WoW or the latest FPS....it's a very odd comparison...I mean football is way more popular than say mountian climbing but people still do it and companies still sell the stuff needed...there is a thing called a niche market, not everything in the world is mainstream, the music I like is far from mainstream but the CD's I like still get made, even if they don't sell a million copies..

Take a look at how many new games have come out just in the Matrix catalogue over the last few years....also I think there is a few more than 2000 consim forum users...blimey some games have over 7000 posts alone..

Your argument is clouded by your frustration over the release of this one game I feel....

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/25/2010 11:43:12 AM >


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Post #: 8
RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/25/2010 3:17:51 PM   
Gunhawk

 

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>>if you follow them on facebook you can see that board games are their priority and thats what pays the bills - this is a luxury, a toy even, fiddled with and tinkered when there is absolutely, positively nothing else to do after youve put food on the table and paid the wages.<<

You may not realize it, but you're just paraphrasing all of my past statements about this game. It's obviously not a priority, so we might not see it for a very long time. In fact, we may not ever see it at all. So why advertise that it's coming if it might not be released for a decade? In any case, you didn't answer my question. What *else* is there to talk about except the status of the game?


(in reply to undercovergeek)
Post #: 9
RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/25/2010 4:21:09 PM   
Gunhawk

 

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>>Many of the older boardgamers on Consim world forums say it's the golden age at the moment and they've been around for years<<

I've been around for years too. My first AH games were the classic titles like "D-Day" and "Stalingrad" back in the 1960's. And I'm here to tell you that there are nowhere *near* as many historic hex based board wargames being sold as in the era of SPI and Avalon Hill. Back in the day I kept running into people that were not what we would call wargamers that had at least one AH wargame title in their closet. There were large book stores in New York City that had whole sections devoted to board wargames because SPI was releasing so many of their flat boxed titles. We couldn't even begin to play all of the wargames that were released during that era.

>>they must be making money somewhere along the line.<<

Really? As popular as the "Memoir '44" series is Richard Borg told me that his best selling games are *not* wargames. Historic wargaming is hardly a big money maker. If they were you'd see more of them in mainstream stores. As it is you'd be lucky to see any of the Axis & Allies series.

>>What has Warcraft got to do with wargamers??? Wargaming has never been a mass market hobby....but there will always be people playing wargames and some probably play Warcraft but there is no rule you can only play one is there<<

None at all, and that's the point. There is always competition for the gamer's time and money. Historic wargamers don't confine themselves to that type of game. In the group that I used to play with, which were mainly historic board wargamers, there were *many* kinds of games played. What I saw happen over the years was a boom in historic wargaming, then some erosion when D&D was produced, more erosion with Games Workshop and "Magic", then more erosion when "German" type games started to become popular. I believe that if role playing games, PC role playing games, real time PC wargames, first person shooter wargames, "Magic" and Games Worshop didn't exist there would be a *lot* more historic wargamers. For example; I have teenaged neighbor that got interested in playing "Memoir '44" with me, and until he went off to college we played on a fairly regular basis. In fact, he referred to himself as my "coach" for the World Boardgaming Championships. But he *much* preferred playing "Medal of Honor" on line. If that game, and others like it, didn't exist he'd probably play M44 more often than he did and would be more easily introduced to more complex wargames.

>>Your kidding yourself if you really think all those wargamers out there are suddeny going to stop because of WoW or the latest FPS<<

No, I don't think that they will either, but as I said before, those games *will* compete for their time an money, and more importantly, *new* players are less likely to join the ranks. Will there be a radical change within a couple of years? No. But "Heroes of Stalingrad" has been in the works for several years now and time marches on.

>>Your argument is clouded by your frustration over the release of this one game I feel....<<

It's true. I'm frustrated and a bit angry at having the carrot dangled in front of us for so long, but I believe i'm being pragmatic when I say that leisure time gaming has gone through many phases over the years and wargaming of the type that "Heroes of Stalingrad" is will decrease in popularity in the future, which might be the cause of it's demise before publication.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 10
RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 11/29/2010 6:25:33 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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All of the eco supply and demand factors aside.  I think that it's disrespectful that a Matrix moderator or a game developer/designer has not been forthcoming in this forum with some sort of time line for release or dev dairy post. This game had my $$ a while back after getting back into WWII squad level type gaming after playing a few of the GMT 'Combat Commander' titles.

If the game is actually dead, then just let us know and remove this game from the forum.  Don't think that is too much to ask?

(in reply to Gunhawk)
Post #: 11
RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 12/1/2010 1:13:50 AM   
Alex777


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

All of the eco supply and demand factors aside.  I think that it's disrespectful that a Matrix moderator or a game developer/designer has not been forthcoming in this forum with some sort of time line for release or dev dairy post. This game had my $$ a while back after getting back into WWII squad level type gaming after playing a few of the GMT 'Combat Commander' titles.

If the game is actually dead, then just let us know and remove this game from the forum.  Don't think that is too much to ask?



+1

(in reply to kirkgregerson)
Post #: 12
RE: Happy Thanksgiving! - 12/1/2010 7:40:23 AM   
Gunhawk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alex777

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

All of the eco supply and demand factors aside.  I think that it's disrespectful that a Matrix moderator or a game developer/designer has not been forthcoming in this forum with some sort of time line for release or dev dairy post. This game had my $$ a while back after getting back into WWII squad level type gaming after playing a few of the GMT 'Combat Commander' titles.

If the game is actually dead, then just let us know and remove this game from the forum.  Don't think that is too much to ask?



+1



+2

(in reply to Alex777)
Post #: 13
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