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Barrage baloons - 11/23/2010 7:15:20 PM   
Hotschi

 

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March 1944, I am bombing Truk since ages, rendering it useless for the Japanese. Currently I am flying airfield, ground, port as well as city (mining) attacks with Liberators at 5,000 feet.

March 9, about a dozen B-24's were damaged by barrage balloons. Fine with me, seems I have to change to a higher altitude then.

And here's the questions;

a) What conditions must be met for a base to set up barrage baloons - is it a question of supply, base size, units and/or fortress present?
b) At which altitudes do they hang around, or better, what's the maximum ceiling of a barrage baloon?
c) How to destroy them other than flying straight into one?
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RE: Barrage baloons - 11/23/2010 7:38:25 PM   
Schanilec

 

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I wonder if a fighter sweep would destroy barrage balloons?

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RE: Barrage baloons - 11/23/2010 8:11:21 PM   
USS America


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Balloons are part of the defenses for bases with a combined port and airfield size over a certain number.  I think it is around 6, but I can't remember.  They cannot be destroyed, but are easily avoided if you have your bombers fly at 7k feet or higher.  Balloons can only reach up to 6k feet. 

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RE: Barrage baloons - 11/23/2010 8:12:05 PM   
Hotschi

 

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Worth a try.

Ponape (10 hexes away) is already controlled by the Allies, but there's no airgroup there yet - need to ship a Corsair squadron there, which has adequate range. I also got 2 carrier Task Forces nearby enroute to Woleai, thinking of diverting them to make a sweep and see.

It's not the case that I badly need to destroy them baloons (Truk is 100 percent airfield and port damaged) it's just a matter of interest.

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RE: Barrage baloons - 11/23/2010 8:15:24 PM   
Hotschi

 

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Ooops, hit the reply button before you now posted, which answers my question.

Actually my plan, before starting to post this thread, was to simply bomb at a higher altitude, increasing in 1,000 ft steps.

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RE: Barrage baloons - 11/23/2010 9:59:22 PM   
Chickenboy


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This Thread:  http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2206908&mpage=1&key=� has information from one of the programming types about the baloon's appearance.

One of my very early addition to counter low level attacks.

The Balloon effect is determined by maximum value of (a) plus (b) below. The overall maximum of the sum is 9.
(a) Balloons are present in a base if the AF + port > 6. The value is the fort level of the hex.
(b) Balloons can be added to a base/LCU by creating a device of type BALLOON. The value is the number of devices. [not currently in use]

They affect aircraft flying below 6000'.

Twin-engine or higher planes increase the number of balloons by 4.

Balloon level is not reported but is usually the fort level if the combined value of the base is >6.
Pilot experience should help to avoid balloons (except for the bug I just found which is not always using the right pilot!!!)

< Message edited by michaelm -- 4/6/2010 4:09:22 AM >


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RE: Barrage baloons - 11/24/2010 8:16:43 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Balloons are part of the defenses for bases with a combined port and airfield size over a certain number.  I think it is around 6, but I can't remember.  They cannot be destroyed, but are easily avoided if you have your bombers fly at 7k feet or higher.  Balloons can only reach up to 6k feet. 




IIRC there are ones that reach up to 6000ft and others to 8000ft? One of the devs posted it but I can´t remember it exactly nor the exact conditions to have them. If I meet balloons somewhere I go up to 10000ft, never encountered them at that height and you should also avoid any light flak.

edit: chickenboy posted the thread I´ve meant. I can say that this:

They affect aircraft flying below 6000'.

isn´t correct though because I never use my USAAF heavies BELOW 6000ft and I just recently had an attack when I lost no less than 7! B-24 to balloons and the bombers were all AT 6000ft.


< Message edited by castor troy -- 11/24/2010 8:19:54 AM >


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RE: Barrage baloons - 11/24/2010 11:33:42 AM   
michaelm


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Your correct it should have read at or below 6000'.

6000 feet is mystical number in WITP and AE.


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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/29/2012 2:36:21 PM   
peacemaker1945

 

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Just a few turns ago bombed a base with balloon defense presented, made quick search and found this thread. Regarding a post by Chickenboy, as now it is not possible to add balloons as device to LCUs, does it mean that only cumulative size of port+airfield will affect number of balloons deployed for defense?

Would be glad if someone instruct me on this matter. Thank you in advance.

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/29/2012 10:26:40 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Balloons are part of the defenses for bases with a combined port and airfield size over a certain number.  I think it is around 6, but I can't remember.  They cannot be destroyed, but are easily avoided if you have your bombers fly at 7k feet or higher.  Balloons can only reach up to 6k feet. 


I did not know that!! Thanks USS Amerika!!


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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 8:41:16 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

I wonder if a fighter sweep would destroy barrage balloons?



nope

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 4:47:07 PM   
crsutton


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I almost always bomb at 7k unless there is super heavy flak and can't remember ever seeing a balloon. (Not saying it has not happened) Remember, if you are using a 4E or non attack type medium at 6k or below then you are only getting half a bomb load. So why do it?

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 4:58:36 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

This Thread:  http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2206908&mpage=1&key=� has information from one of the programming types about the baloon's appearance.

One of my very early addition to counter low level attacks.

The Balloon effect is determined by maximum value of (a) plus (b) below. The overall maximum of the sum is 9.
(a) Balloons are present in a base if the AF + port > 6. The value is the fort level of the hex.

(b) Balloons can be added to a base/LCU by creating a device of type BALLOON. The value is the number of devices. [not currently in use]

They affect aircraft flying below 6000'.

Twin-engine or higher planes increase the number of balloons by 4.

Balloon level is not reported but is usually the fort level if the combined value of the base is >6.
Pilot experience should help to avoid balloons (except for the bug I just found which is not always using the right pilot!!!)

< Message edited by michaelm -- 4/6/2010 4:09:22 AM >



Michael,

I'm curious about what I put in bold above, in particular the piece I made larger. Is the possibility of Barrage Balloons in the scenario file (as a device at the base) implemented in code, but no scenario was using it? Or not even implemented in code?

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 5:12:33 PM   
dr.hal


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I have to ask as historical question here, as I've seen the photos of these things about London, etc. Where they really effective in WWII????

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 5:14:20 PM   
Alfred

 

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No.

But they gave some lift to civilian morale.

Alfred

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 5:16:41 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

This Thread:  http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2206908&mpage=1&key=� has information from one of the programming types about the baloon's appearance.

One of my very early addition to counter low level attacks.

The Balloon effect is determined by maximum value of (a) plus (b) below. The overall maximum of the sum is 9.
(a) Balloons are present in a base if the AF + port > 6. The value is the fort level of the hex.

(b) Balloons can be added to a base/LCU by creating a device of type BALLOON. The value is the number of devices. [not currently in use]

They affect aircraft flying below 6000'.

Twin-engine or higher planes increase the number of balloons by 4.

Balloon level is not reported but is usually the fort level if the combined value of the base is >6.
Pilot experience should help to avoid balloons (except for the bug I just found which is not always using the right pilot!!!)

< Message edited by michaelm -- 4/6/2010 4:09:22 AM >



Michael,

I'm curious about what I put in bold above, in particular the piece I made larger. Is the possibility of Barrage Balloons in the scenario file (as a device at the base) implemented in code, but no scenario was using it? Or not even implemented in code?


Obviously I can't answer for michaelm but my understanding is that no scenario designer has included the balloon device. The option is however there for an "enterprising" modder.

Alfred

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 5:18:22 PM   
dr.hal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No.

But they gave some lift to civilian morale.

Alfred

Is that a play on words Alfred? I didn't know you had it in you!

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/30/2012 8:20:55 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No.

But they gave some lift to civilian morale.

Alfred

Is that a play on words Alfred? I didn't know you had it in you!


Yes, He does... <grin>

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/31/2012 2:25:22 PM   
tanjman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

This Thread:  http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2206908&mpage=1&key=� has information from one of the programming types about the baloon's appearance.

One of my very early addition to counter low level attacks.

The Balloon effect is determined by maximum value of (a) plus (b) below. The overall maximum of the sum is 9.
(a) Balloons are present in a base if the AF + port > 6. The value is the fort level of the hex.

(b) Balloons can be added to a base/LCU by creating a device of type BALLOON. The value is the number of devices. [not currently in use]

They affect aircraft flying below 6000'.

Twin-engine or higher planes increase the number of balloons by 4.

Balloon level is not reported but is usually the fort level if the combined value of the base is >6.
Pilot experience should help to avoid balloons (except for the bug I just found which is not always using the right pilot!!!)

< Message edited by michaelm -- 4/6/2010 4:09:22 AM >



Michael,

I'm curious about what I put in bold above, in particular the piece I made larger. Is the possibility of Barrage Balloons in the scenario file (as a device at the base) implemented in code, but no scenario was using it? Or not even implemented in code?


Obviously I can't answer for michaelm but my understanding is that no scenario designer has included the balloon device. The option is however there for an "enterprising" modder.

Alfred


The following are the Barrage Balloon device stats from UV.

Range = 0
Accuracy = 0
Penetration = 0
Effect = 1
Ceiling = 4,000
Anti-Soft = 0
Anti-Armor = 0
Load Cost = 16

I don't know if these stats will work in WitP AE.

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/31/2012 5:38:11 PM   
ALF1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Your correct it should have read at or below 6000'.

6000 feet is mystical number in WITP and AE.



Michaelm can you please confirm that this is true:

(a) Balloons are present in a base if the AF + port > 6. The value is the fort level of the hex.

I read somewhere that already from combined size 6 baloons appeared. Or is really as written from size 7 ?

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RE: Barrage baloons - 7/31/2012 7:45:40 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I have to ask as historical question here, as I've seen the photos of these things about London, etc. Where they really effective in WWII????


They would of course be a danger to any aircraft flying a low level mission, especially at night. However, most missions probably did not fly low enough to make them effective.

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