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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi

 
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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 2:49:48 AM   
Igard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

argh, now i dont want to play non expansion distant worlds 


I'm trying desperately to finish the couple of games I've got going before the expansion renders them unplayable. I know what you mean though. It's worse when you have to build a fleet of ships and you know it's going to be easier with the new mass-produce funtions.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 10:40:27 AM   
WoodMan


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quote:

I imagine...
The Shakturi on their way with their minion race of robots leading the way. Distant Worlds galaxy seems certainly doomed to be conquered.

Some unforeseen and unusual event causes the robotic minion race to become independent of the Shakturi. The robotic race arrives first in the galaxy and decides to prepare to face their former masters who will also soon arrive. The robotic race cares little for the galaxy races but will consider cooperating with them to better confront the Shakturi.

Now, it seems, the Distant Worlds galaxy races MAY have a chance to compete with the Shakturi. It may require much cooperation... or much conquering.


Or... The Shakturi return, the ancient alliance that fought them in the distant past had prepared for this day by leaving buried deep under the surface of an ice moon, a dormant race of artificial intelligence.  Its now up to the DW races to follow the clues throughout the galaxy and awaken them

I doubt it, but it kinda would be cool.


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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 2:22:35 PM   
Wade1000


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Or...

The Shakturi, an extreme biological technology race, have been waring for eons against their opposite and final arch nemesis, an extreme robotic technology race.

Both races are now starting to extend their war to the Distant Worlds galaxy for more resources. Any seemingly minor races to them can choose a side or hope to survive as neutral.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 2:52:57 PM   
J HG T


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

Or...

The Shakturi, an extreme biological technology race, have been waring for eons against their opposite and final arch nemesis, an extreme robotic technology race.

Both races are now starting to extend their war to the Distant Worlds galaxy for more resources. Any seemingly minor races to them can choose a side or hope to survive as neutral.


Or...

The AI are Meklars!

Seriously though, my guess is that the AI are either a powerful ancient nation that turned a blind eye to upstart Shakturis at the time and are now waging war against their new nemesis, rallying other empires to their cause. Or, they were machines of work for the shakturi that evolved into a real Artificial intelligence demanding freedom from Shakturis grasp leading to conflict. Damn, that last one sound like the geths.
I have a feeling that there may be some good/bad thing going on with AI/Shakturi and player and AI controlled empires can choose sides or remain neutral. Probably wishful thinking, but it would be nice.
Woodman had actually quite a nice theory also.
Oh well, We'll see it then.


< Message edited by J HG T -- 11/29/2010 2:54:16 PM >


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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 4:35:41 PM   
Tycow


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Some interesting theories being mooted here... ;)

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 5:03:59 PM   
nammafia

 

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This expansion will come out before Christ-mass? Yes! No? Can't wait!

Thanks.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 8:14:35 PM   
ASHBERY76


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The only scary NPC races in sandbox games I have played were the New Orions in MOO3 due to just being overpowered from the start of the game and the Kra'hen Empire in ImperuimGalactica2 due to massive cheats.I am curious how Codeforce will balance this.A lame duck Shakturi will not fly.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 8:47:33 PM   
Litjan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hondo1375


2. Fuel. In principle, this is a good mechanic, but the current execution is often frustrating. For example, I had a fleet on an offensive in a distant enemy system, and I was moving a resupply ship into place to deploy to refuel the fleet. However, the fleet was low on fuel. Even though the ships were set to manual, they started warping away to refuel at a distant star which would have put them out of action for a long time. If they'd hung around a few more minutes they could have refueled at the resupply ship. I kept grabbing them manually and bringing them back. It felt like herding cats in the end and I gave up. Some way to disable this automated behaviour would be welcome.

More to the point, I think some mechanic where tankers can be sent with fleets and auto refuel the fleet would take a lot of the pain out of this. Other games and RL do it like this, so why not? Also, tankers set to auto should be able to fly around your empire tracking down out of fuel ships limping around and auto refuel them Currently, micomanaging this is zero fun.

--------------


The behaviour for fleets has been cause for much debate. If you have ships stay with their fleets, then people complain about half of the fleet not being battle-ready. If you have them wisk of by themselves, people complain about them flying away uncontrollably. I think part of the job of the commander is to make sure they are fueled appropriately - i.e. have them fuel up before going on missions.
If you take away this part of the game, it will loose an important and fun decision making point: How much fuelcells do I put on my ships? Do I make them short-legged, but more powerfull, or do I make them a little "weaker" but have more stamina?
If you feel the fueling logistics are a big hassle for you, just add some more fueltanks to your ships - it is (in a way) the same as adding a "fuel tanker" to your fleet: For the same "money" you will get either (just an example) 10 ships with 10 firepower each plus one tanker. Or 20 ships with 5 firepower each with no tanker.

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Post #: 158
RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 9:20:25 PM   
hondo1375


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Thanks for the reply Litjan. My view is that the current arrangement requires too much micromanagement, especially for a game that is supposed to automate a lot of stuff for you. Also, I'm not sure I agree with your fleet analysis. It makes a lot more sense for all ships to have fuel tanks large enough for short range missions, and use that extra hull capacity for other useful things like weapons, and only add a tanker to the fleet for long range missions. It is a lot more flexible and a better use of hull capacity.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 10:54:48 PM   
Igard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Litjan


quote:

ORIGINAL: hondo1375


2. Fuel. In principle, this is a good mechanic, but the current execution is often frustrating. For example, I had a fleet on an offensive in a distant enemy system, and I was moving a resupply ship into place to deploy to refuel the fleet. However, the fleet was low on fuel. Even though the ships were set to manual, they started warping away to refuel at a distant star which would have put them out of action for a long time. If they'd hung around a few more minutes they could have refueled at the resupply ship. I kept grabbing them manually and bringing them back. It felt like herding cats in the end and I gave up. Some way to disable this automated behaviour would be welcome.

More to the point, I think some mechanic where tankers can be sent with fleets and auto refuel the fleet would take a lot of the pain out of this. Other games and RL do it like this, so why not? Also, tankers set to auto should be able to fly around your empire tracking down out of fuel ships limping around and auto refuel them Currently, micomanaging this is zero fun.

--------------


The behaviour for fleets has been cause for much debate. If you have ships stay with their fleets, then people complain about half of the fleet not being battle-ready. If you have them wisk of by themselves, people complain about them flying away uncontrollably. I think part of the job of the commander is to make sure they are fueled appropriately - i.e. have them fuel up before going on missions.
If you take away this part of the game, it will loose an important and fun decision making point: How much fuelcells do I put on my ships? Do I make them short-legged, but more powerfull, or do I make them a little "weaker" but have more stamina?
If you feel the fueling logistics are a big hassle for you, just add some more fueltanks to your ships - it is (in a way) the same as adding a "fuel tanker" to your fleet: For the same "money" you will get either (just an example) 10 ships with 10 firepower each plus one tanker. Or 20 ships with 5 firepower each with no tanker.




If I could just add to this, another fun decision to make is where and when to deploy your resupply ship. You really have to plan your large scale operations so that you can avoid fleets splitting apart due to lack of fuel. I suppose fuel tankers would be realistic, but I love the way resupply ships are implemented and it really adds to my enjoyment of the game.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/29/2010 11:57:57 PM   
WoodMan


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I've never even bothered to build a resupply ship!  I will make that one of my goals when the addon comes out.


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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 1:03:17 AM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan



I've never even bothered to build a resupply ship!  I will make that one of my goals when the addon comes out.



It is a great strategy WoodMan to have a resupply ship deployed in a Hydrogen Gas Cloud about a
sector away from the battle zone. Makes either "Hit & Run" or Direct Assault missions more
viable. {Especially against the Shakturi...which you'll soon know, and be THANKFUL for Resupply
vessels)

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 1:34:43 AM   
Igard


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I didn't like them at first until I figured out how to use them to good effect. They really allow you to take the fight to your enemy. I like to create a small defence fleet for the resupply ship, of which I usually have about 2. I'll quick select them as buttons '9' and '0'. Then pick a system with the appropriate fuel source and make that your 'staging' area for the offensive. Usually somewhere about a sector distance from the enemy controlled star system(s), so as to decrease the chances of detection on their long range sensors (maybe closer depending on tech level).

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 2:58:40 AM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Usually somewhere about a sector distance from the enemy controlled star system(s), so as to decrease the chances of detection on their long range sensors (maybe closer depending on tech level).


...and I thought you Romulans had cloaking devices on your ships.... LOL

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 4:11:52 AM   
Igard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Usually somewhere about a sector distance from the enemy controlled star system(s), so as to decrease the chances of detection on their long range sensors (maybe closer depending on tech level).


...and I thought you Romulans had cloaking devices on your ships.... LOL


I've been thinking about Romulan style cloaking devices and how they could be implemented in DW without making them overpowered. Here are a few ideas if anyones interested :-

* They would need to be a race special tech so not everyone has them.
* It wouldn't be practical to have a toggle button so why not only engage it when it's needed? This would be when an attack order is given or when a resupply ship is being deployed at a gas giant.
* The level of long range sensor tech could be used to detect cloaked ships (as it does now). However in this case, the cloaked ship would remain undetected until it finally opens fire or receives a non tactical order (move, refuel, etc.)
* The ship should attempt to re-cloak when it retreats. The cloak should use alot of energy, so there may not be enough left for it to re-cloak itself when retreating leaving it vulnerable.

Not easy to implement I would think, but it would be a nice tech. I might start a thread about cloaking devices once I see what the expansion has in store for me.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 6:12:25 AM   
ehsumrell1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard


I've been thinking about Romulan style cloaking devices and how they could be implemented in DW without making them overpowered. Here are a few ideas if anyones interested :-

* They would need to be a race special tech so not everyone has them.
* It wouldn't be practical to have a toggle button so why not only engage it when it's needed? This would be when an attack order is given or when a resupply ship is being deployed at a gas giant.
* The level of long range sensor tech could be used to detect cloaked ships (as it does now). However in this case, the cloaked ship would remain undetected until it finally opens fire or receives a non tactical order (move, refuel, etc.)
* The ship should attempt to re-cloak when it retreats. The cloak should use alot of energy, so there may not be enough left for it to re-cloak itself when retreating leaving it vulnerable.

Not easy to implement I would think, but it would be a nice tech. I might start a thread about cloaking devices once I see what the expansion has in store for me.


It may be possible that Elliot could look into "tweaking" the Stealth Cloak component that's in
the game now without much effort? I can kind of see how a "distance versus range to a system" type
formula (by percentage) might work!

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 12:26:19 PM   
Nibelung44


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Sorry to ask, but has any of you no problem at all with how the game windows get refreshed? Sometime I'm under the impression they are redrawn 6 times before being done. Hopefully, there was some improvements on that in the expansion?

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 1:09:34 PM   
Litjan

 

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Hmm, I know what you mean. But if you avoid all tough decisions, then the game would be just easy and not much fun - I feel.
Of course it would be very convenient to have extra fleet-tankers to fly along. But it would be even more convenient to have everlasting fuel, right? And even more convenient to have supercannons on your homeworld that could shoot every ship no matter how far away - then we wouldn´t even need fleets!
I know, I am exaggerating - my point is that the hardship that comes with "herding the cats" and "worrying about fuel levels" is fun to some weird people - like me


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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 1:50:38 PM   
hondo1375


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I think it is a matter of degree and personal preference. The game is designed to allow you to automate whatever you'd rather not worry about, and I think that is one of its strengths. Personally, I like a little bit of logistics management, but currently I'm having to spend a lot of time trying to refuel constructor ships and fleets scattered around the galaxy limping around without fuel. Sometimes I wish I could just automate a tanker to fly around and refuel all those ships as it gets pretty boring. If you personally like doing that manually, or planning out fuel capacities and miner refuelling points to avoid it in the first place, then that's great, but that level of logistics isn't to everyone's taste ... well at least not mine. Being able to automate something like that (or not, as you please) seems within the design philosophy of the game.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 3:41:57 PM   
Joubarbe

 

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A good thing would be to have different objectives per race. For example, agressive races would win more strategic value points if they conquer planets than pacific races. Same thing, for happiness, budget, private funds, infrastructures etc. In some way, a system like in Armada 2526 :)

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 3:42:24 PM   
Spacecadet

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hondo1375


I think it is a matter of degree and personal preference. The game is designed to allow you to automate whatever you'd rather not worry about, and I think that is one of its strengths. Personally, I like a little bit of logistics management, but currently I'm having to spend a lot of time trying to refuel constructor ships and fleets scattered around the galaxy limping around without fuel. Sometimes I wish I could just automate a tanker to fly around and refuel all those ships as it gets pretty boring. If you personally like doing that manually, or planning out fuel capacities and miner refuelling points to avoid it in the first place, then that's great, but that level of logistics isn't to everyone's taste ... well at least not mine. Being able to automate something like that (or not, as you please) seems within the design philosophy of the game.


I think fuel management is more about realism than anything else.
You also need to consider that you have to manage multiple types of resources.
If you don't have all the resources you need, then you're not going to be building anything.
Fuel is just more glaring because it's used by pretty much everything.

As for manually having to control refueling, I find I have to do very little of that.
I almost never have to manually refuel a Constructor unless I'm manually controlling it and repairing multiple ships in a no-hyper zone or something similar.

For automation, I believe there are settings for when you want your automated ships to be refueled (it may even impact your non-auto ships).




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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 4:34:13 PM   
Wade1000


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-Unique/special technologies restricted to a certain race are superficially restrictive. If they are able to be researched and developed then anyone should be able to do it. Think about it. Yes, even some sort of strange biological, crystal, psychic, etcetera, technology.

-I support true full energy shield type cloaking. It might be a very advanced technology. There could be three levels: 1. the current Stealth. 2. Energy Cloak. 3. Phased Energy Cloak.
They are advanced and powerful. The defense to them are three types of scanners: 1. Stealth Scanner. 2. Cloak Scanner. 3. Phased Cloak Scanner.
Each cloak and scanner can have higher levels required to defeat each other.

-An unlimited energy generator is a good thing. It can be a very advanced technology.

-Race specific victory conditions are superficially specific. True victory is when you reign supreme with no real threats(at least forseen for awhile). This can be achieved with alliances using some diplomacy, also good economics and research, but it requires complete military superiority and often war.

Superficial, artificial limitations are annoying and seem to limit the epic civilization feeling to civilization/empire game.

< Message edited by Wade1000 -- 11/30/2010 5:27:47 PM >


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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 8:57:13 PM   
noname

 

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One question: will the expansion include the patches for the original Distant Worlds? Reason I ask is that I have put off buying DW because I do not have a high speed capability, just an old fashioned modem dial up. It would take me an impossibly long time to download that huge patch. Thanks for the infomation.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 9:58:50 PM   
hondo1375


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quote:

I think fuel management is more about realism than anything else.
You also need to consider that you have to manage multiple types of resources.
If you don't have all the resources you need, then you're not going to be building anything.


I'm not sure I agree, I have plenty of fuel, but distributing it to where it needs to be is a pain. The rest of the resources in the game are automatically handled by private ships, so I'm not sure your analogy works. Any way, I must have a different playing style/preference to you and the other posters here who aren't finding this an issue.


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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 11/30/2010 10:00:37 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: noname
One question: will the expansion include the patches for the original Distant Worlds? Reason I ask is that I have put off buying DW because I do not have a high speed capability, just an old fashioned modem dial up. It would take me an impossibly long time to download that huge patch. Thanks for the infomation.


Yes, it definitely will.


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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 12/1/2010 12:00:46 AM   
Igard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hondo1375

quote:

I think fuel management is more about realism than anything else.
You also need to consider that you have to manage multiple types of resources.
If you don't have all the resources you need, then you're not going to be building anything.


I'm not sure I agree, I have plenty of fuel, but distributing it to where it needs to be is a pain. The rest of the resources in the game are automatically handled by private ships, so I'm not sure your analogy works. Any way, I must have a different playing style/preference to you and the other posters here who aren't finding this an issue.





We all have different styles of play hondo. It's actually pretty cool that we do. I'll not tell you how to play the game, but try to find a system that works for you. If you want some advice just ask away.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 12/1/2010 12:48:53 AM   
hewwo

 

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without adding to the discussion I'll say the expansion looks absolutely awesome!

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 12/1/2010 1:22:51 AM   
pipewrench


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hondo , I know where you are coming from and there is nothing wrong with your playing style. Have a great time and experiment with whatever makes you happy.

spacecadet's realism point is what I shoot for.

To take it further I wish that fuel systems on warships was taxed even harder when weapons are used. For me ,it should create a situation where supply becomes the game changer. Proper protection of your fleet freighters and supply routes are the key to your survival. Reminds me of convoys in WW2.

and to add:
If a ship or fleet could just click on a base or freighter and select supply point it would force the ship ,when low, to go back to that freighter to replenish. With this in mind a freighter route is set up automatically to replenish to fleet freighter or fleet base from resource bases throughout the empire. To counter you just need the AI using fast or cloaked ships to sit in those shipping lanes and force all my big guzzling warships to keep close to home because extended supply lines would become deadly without escort protection.

oh Sh^t!! now I'm back in the Atlantic ocean in 1940 peering through my binoculars, searching for those damn cloaked U-boats. I know they are after the tanker I'm protecting with my little corvette. Damn Igard and his cloak, I need more research in detection systems or an escort carrier to scout the area and torpedo these little pests.

no worries , the game is great!!


< Message edited by pipewrench -- 12/1/2010 1:33:21 AM >

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 12/1/2010 12:08:24 PM   
Joubarbe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000
-Race specific victory conditions are superficially specific. True victory is when you reign supreme with no real threats(at least forseen for awhile). This can be achieved with alliances using some diplomacy, also good economics and research, but it requires complete military superiority and often war.


I disagree because I don't like to have to be the "master of universe" to win a game. I had a random game where the two first empires were absolutely the best ones, far beyond the others, and unbeatables. In fact, when the player auto generates auto empires, he can't specify the tech level ; so these two empires had excellent research capacities. A way to be the first, in every situations and without spending 30 hours a game would be great :) But it's just an idea, Distant Worlds is already a great game !

< Message edited by Joubarbe -- 12/1/2010 12:09:56 PM >

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RE: Distant Worlds: Return of the Shakturi - 12/1/2010 2:10:06 PM   
hondo1375


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It's good that you brought up the WW2 analogy pipewrench, and also the question of realism others have brought up, as I'm basing my comments on systems like Uncommon Valor which I thought handled supply and fuel logistics pretty well and also with some element of realism IIRC.

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