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WC Islands - 11/12/2010 7:14:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6166
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online 		I spent the morning running many, many trials and iterations of the WC reinforcement triggers on various real estate. I was VERY surprised by some of the results. I think they offer the more devious Japanese player some interesting options. I'm off to the gym now, as we have snow coming (finally!), but I'll try to get this last of the Allied tests up this PM.

I also have a new save with USN TFs standing just off the HI, ready to do a Japanese trigger test. I know what I expect to see. The problem is with the plethora of Japanese islands in the vicinity. I need to figure out a methodology to test them enough to get a feel for the triggers, without having to run tests unitl doomsday. Until I did the WC tests I thought I understood the dev's logic, but now I'm not so sure.

(This is known in the ad biz as a "tease."


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The Moose
Post #: 1
RE: WC Islands - 11/12/2010 7:21:22 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12398
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

(This is known in the ad biz as a "tease."



Evil ruminant.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 2
RE: WC Islands - 11/12/2010 7:27:58 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 6163
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		I'm betting that any of the main islands and Shikuka for sure would trigger any reinforcements. I also bet Iwo Jima area and Osumi islands might do the trick...that is if Japanese reinforcements are even triggered at all.

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Post #: 3
RE: WC Islands - 11/12/2010 7:41:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9025
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: online 		No way the Bonins trigger reinforcements.

I know that the Kuriles do.

Bullwinkle is a tricky ungulate, aint he? (Or should that be quadruped?)

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 4
RE: WC Islands - 11/12/2010 8:12:47 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1871
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		You are an evil,evil man Bullwinkle, but I do have to thank you for running these tests.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5
RE: WC Islands - 11/12/2010 9:04:38 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3612
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Ditto. Fortunately, there's no Rocky about so Bullwinkle's probably only operating at half evil genius power.

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Post #: 6
RE: WC Islands - 11/12/2010 9:09:23 PM   
stuman


Posts: 3852
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I spent the morning running many, many trials and iterations of the WC reinforcement triggers on various real estate. I was VERY surprised by some of the results. I think they offer the more devious Japanese player some interesting options. I'm off to the gym now, as we have snow coming (finally!), but I'll try to get this last of the Allied tests up this PM.

I also have a new save with USN TFs standing just off the HI, ready to do a Japanese trigger test. I know what I expect to see. The problem is with the plethora of Japanese islands in the vicinity. I need to figure out a methodology to test them enough to get a feel for the triggers, without having to run tests unitl doomsday. Until I did the WC tests I thought I understood the dev's logic, but now I'm not so sure.

(This is known in the ad biz as a "tease."




Man what are you talking about, there are no devious Japanese players around here !

< Message edited by stuman -- 11/12/2010 9:10:09 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 12:49:10 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8198
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Quick check for this:
Japan national ownership code is 100.
Any Allied force occupying a hex with said code will trigger mobilization.

Pressing key '4' should show the national code of the hex.

FYI
Original hex nationality:

10    USA (excluding Hawaii and Alaska) mainland
20    Canada
30    Australia
33    New Zealand
42    India
100    Japan (excluding Kuriles/Ryukyus/Izu Islands)

[edit]
The base icon can cover up the code in the current build.

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/13/2010 1:11:13 AM >

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Michael

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Post #: 8
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 12:58:08 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6166
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Quick check for this:
Japan national ownership code is 100.
Any Allied force occupying a hex with said code will trigger mobilization.

Pressing key '4' should show the national code of the hex.

FYI
Original hex nationality:

10    USA (excluding Hawaii and Alaska) mainland
20    Canada
30    Australia
33    New Zealand
42    India
100    Japan (excluding Kuriles/Ryukyus/Izu Islands)




Michaelm--I think you just saved me a lot of work.
Thanks.

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The Moose

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Post #: 9
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 1:10:04 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6166
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Quick check for this:
Japan national ownership code is 100.
Any Allied force occupying a hex with said code will trigger mobilization.

Pressing key '4' should show the national code of the hex.

FYI
Original hex nationality:

10    USA (excluding Hawaii and Alaska) mainland
20    Canada
30    Australia
33    New Zealand
42    India
100    Japan (excluding Kuriles/Ryukyus/Izu Islands)




Also, looking at the map, it looks like the two middle Kuriles don't have codes. Are they safe for the Allies to invade? Also, it looks like most of the rings of islands around the HI are also safe. Interesting that Paramushiro-Jima WILL trigger reinforcements, but Aogashima, much closer, will not.

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The Moose

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Post #: 10
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 1:16:46 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8198
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Base icon is covering up the codes.

One way to get around this would be to create a scenario with all AF/port set to 0 so that the icon doesn't show. [This information is held in the pwhex file so is same for ALL scenarios]

I have offset the code in 'future' build so that it is partially visible - you can make out at least some of the digits.

All hexes should have some code value.
Here is the full list:
  0    No nationality
10    USA (excluding Hawaii and Alaska)
11    Alaska
12    US Pacific islands (including Hawaii Islands, Line Islands, American Samoa, Howland and Baker Islands, Wake, Guam)
13    Philippine Islands
20    Canada
30    Australia
31    Papua/Australian New Guinea
32    Australian mandate (excluding Papua New Guinea)
33    New Zealand
34    New Zealand islands (including Samoa, Cook Islands)
40    UK
41    UK Middle East/Africa (including Italian Somaliland and Port Stanley)
42    India
43    Nepal
44    Burma
45    Ceylon
46    Malaya (not including Singapore)
47    Hong Kong
48    Sarawak
49    North Borneo
50    British Pacific mandate ((excluding Solomon Islands, but including, Fiji, Tonga, Gilbert & Ellice Islands, Line Islands, Phoenix Islands)
51    Solomon Islands
52    New Hebrides
53    Brunei
54    Andaman Islands/Maldives/Diego Garcia
55    Bhutan
60    Netherlands East Indies
70    Nationalist China (including Japanese occupied China)
71    Tibet
80    New Caledonia
81    French Polynesia
82    Wallis and Futuna
83    Kwangchowan
90    Soviet Union
91    Mongolia
92    Tannu Tuva
100    Japan (excluding Kuriles/Ryukyus/Izu Islands)
101    Japanese Home islands (Kuriles/Ryukyus/Izu Islands)
102    Japanese Pacific mandate (including Marianas except Guam, Carolines, Marshall Islands)
103    Formosa
104    Korea
105    Manchukuo
106    Indochina (except Vietnam)
107    Vietnam
108    Thailand   





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/13/2010 1:19:40 AM >

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Michael

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Post #: 11
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 1:23:03 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8198
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Quick check for this:
Japan national ownership code is 100.
Any Allied force occupying a hex with said code will trigger mobilization.

Pressing key '4' should show the national code of the hex.

FYI
Original hex nationality:

10    USA (excluding Hawaii and Alaska) mainland
20    Canada
30    Australia
33    New Zealand
42    India
100    Japan (excluding Kuriles/Ryukyus/Izu Islands)




Also, looking at the map, it looks like the two middle Kuriles don't have codes. Are they safe for the Allies to invade? Also, it looks like most of the rings of islands around the HI are also safe. Interesting that Paramushiro-Jima WILL trigger reinforcements, but Aogashima, much closer, will not.


The offshore islands are not part of the 'Japan' mainland hexes that will trigger mobilization.
Not sure why Paramushiro-Jima has a code 100 when all the rest of offshore islands are 101.
You may want to bring this to the attention of Andrew as he set up the map definitions.



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Michael

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Post #: 12
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 1:31:32 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8198
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		To complete the picture, there are some conditions for the following mobilizations:
US/Canada: invasion hex must be east of VANCOUVER base hex.
India: invasion hex must be west of DELHI base hex +2.
Australia: invasion hex must be east of BRISBANE base hex.

Plus, the triggering unit has to have several devices present (#devices x load cost >10) - this is to stop a small fragment from triggering it.


< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/13/2010 2:26:58 AM >

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Michael

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Post #: 13
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 1:43:43 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 3263
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

To complete the picture, there are some conditions for the following mobilizations:
US/Canada: invasion hex must be east of VANCOUVER base hex.
India: invasion hex must be west of DELHI base hex.
Australia: invasion hex must be east of BRISBANE base hex.


Clarification please.

If Japan moves to hex north east of Delhi, reinforcements are not triggered?

Alfred

(in reply to michaelm)
Post #: 14
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 2:29:10 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8198
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		<post In error - see clarification below>

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/13/2010 2:34:39 AM >

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Michael

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Post #: 15
RE: WC Islands - 11/13/2010 2:33:42 AM   
michaelm


Posts: 8198
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Hold it. I got my x,y orientation backwards.

To complete the picture, there are some conditions for the following mobilizations:
US/Canada: invasion hex must be south of the VANCOUVER base hex row (y).
India: invasion hex must be north of the DELHI base hex +2 row (y).
Australia: invasion hex must be south of the BRISBANE base hex row (y).


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Michael

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Post #: 16
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