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Emergency Reinforcements--Tasmania

 
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Emergency Reinforcements--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 9:54:33 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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On the heels of yesterday's test of Indian/Socotra emergency reinforcments, I decided to also test Tasmania as a trigger for Oz reinforcments. Both targets are islands, both are past the x,y trigger line for their respective theater. Socotra did not trigger reinforcments for India.

An invasion of Tasmania, OTOH, DID trigger reinforcments for Oz.

Methodology:

1) Using the same test-bed game as yeasterday, I loaded an earlier save just after Singapore fell, but before the Socotra invasion TF launched. I loaded a small amphib Tf there with one full, and one partial, infantry regiment, and sent them on a Direct route to Perth. I wanted to verify that Perth WILL NOT trigger reinforcments. It should not based on x,y coordinates vis a vis the believed trigger line around the latitude of Brisbane.

2) After a transit of about ten days, the TF landed, attacked, and took a cleaned-out Perth. No reinforcments were triggered. I refueled, reloaded a smaller TF than before, and launched it on Direct to Launceston, Tasmania. While in transit, I sent the lone xAP there to mainland OZ, placed the one defense unit on Strat to cripple it, and changed its planned destination to Canberra to further weaken it.

3) The Japanese TF landed and attacked, but did not take Launceston on the landing turn. However, this attack DID trigger emergency reinforcments, as seen in this Ops Report:

OPERATIONAL REPORT FOR Feb 03, 42
Coastwatcher Report: harbor at Perth is reported empty
No additional repairs possible on SS KXV
using currently assigned resources at Soerabaja
Coastwatcher Report: harbor at Perth is reported empty
Coastwatcher sighting: 2 Japanese ships at 82,176 near Launceston , Speed 6 , Moving Southeast
No additional repairs possible on SS KXV
using currently assigned resources at Soerabaja
Ship Withdrawals: 1 overdue (20 Daily PP, 40 Accumulated PP)
Group Withdrawals:
13 overdue (171 Daily PP, 2178 Accumulated PP)
Australia invaded! Counter invasion forces released.
Bateson, R.N. reassigned
xAK Charles McCormick arrives at Cristobal
xAK Ganges arrives at Cape Town
AM Kiwi arrives at Auckland
AM Moa arrives at Auckland
44th British Division arrives at Cape Town
2nd British Para Brigade arrives at Cape Town
1st AA Bde arrives at Aden
7th SA Armoured Brigade arrives at Cape Town
9th Australian Division arrives at Aden
Invasion Mobilstn Supply Convoy arrives at Cape Town
27th Rhodesian Brigade arrives at Cape Town
Natal Mtd Rifles Regiment arrives at Cape Town

-----------------------------------------------

The Combat Report which triggered this Ops Report:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 03, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Launceston

Japanese Ships
xAK Fukko Maru
xAP Naminoue Maru

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

xAK Fukko Maru firing at Launceston RAAF Base Force
xAK Fukko Maru fired at enemy troops
xAP Naminoue Maru fired at enemy troops
xAK Fukko Maru fired at enemy troops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Launceston

TF 13 troops unloading over beach at Launceston, 82,176

10 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 41st Infantry Rgt /2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Launceston

Japanese Ships
xAK Fukko Maru
xAP Naminoue Maru

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

xAK Fukko Maru fired at enemy troops
xAP Naminoue Maru fired at enemy troops
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Invasion Support action off Launceston

Japanese Ships
xAK Fukko Maru
xAP Naminoue Maru

xAK Fukko Maru fired at enemy troops
xAP Naminoue Maru fired at enemy troops


Conclusions:

1) When it comes to islands and triggering, not all islands are created equal.

2) Extrapolating, any base of any size, south of the Brisbane-area trigger line, should trigger reinforcments.

3) The Oz reinforcments come onto the board at less advantaged locations for the Allies than do the Indian emergency units. Long transits will be necessary to bring them to bear versus trivial transits from Aden to Karachi.

4) The units are pretty typical (I don't want to post ten more jpegs.) The emergency supply convoy arriving at Cape Town has this composition:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 11/9/2010 1:51:28 AM >


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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:07:57 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Bateson, R.N. reassigned

OK, I'll bite. Who is Bateson?

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:08:38 PM   
Pascal


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You're still getting a jumbled end of list in the convoy display.  Is this typical or are you using an older version?

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:10:51 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Australia invaded! Counter invasion forces released.
Bateson, R.N. reassigned
xAK Charles McCormick arrives at Cristobal
xAK Ganges arrives at Cape Town
AM Kiwi arrives at Auckland
AM Moa arrives at Auckland


Why does it also release 2 xAK's and a AM's? Same thing for India. Weird. Anyway,you know what to do here, In order please Invade:
New Zealand
U.S. Mainland
Canada


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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:20:40 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

You're still getting a jumbled end of list in the convoy display.  Is this typical or are you using an older version?


I'm patched up to current. This is the only screen (and the other one from Aden on the test yesterday) I get jumbled. Perhaps it's my old hardware, or perhaps this is a DB issue that can't be addressed until a DB patch, or it's a display glitch in the original game files never looked at in a patch since it's triggered so very rarely. I don't know. I do know I can't fix it on my machine.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:23:37 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Australia invaded! Counter invasion forces released.
Bateson, R.N. reassigned
xAK Charles McCormick arrives at Cristobal
xAK Ganges arrives at Cape Town
AM Kiwi arrives at Auckland
AM Moa arrives at Auckland


Why does it also release 2 xAK's and a AM's? Same thing for India. Weird. Anyway,you know what to do here, In order please Invade:
New Zealand
U.S. Mainland
Canada



Funny guy.

I may later this week. I have a save pre-Tasmania landing, so New Z. would be an easy transit. To do CONUS I'd have to get some AO support rounded up, and probably launch a new TF from the HI, then just crank thorough transit turns for awhile. I'd need something more interesting on TV than the Vikings to do that.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:26:01 PM   
rjopel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Bateson, R.N. reassigned

OK, I'll bite. Who is Bateson?



Well here is a BIO for a RAF officer who was in Egypt at the time.

http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Bateson_RN.htm

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:33:58 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

I'd need something more interesting on TV than the Vikings to do that.

Eagles - Colts is not bad. I also have the Giants - Seahawks. That's not going anywhere. Sorry about the Vikings, Favre wasn't the answer with my Jets, he is not your answer either. Hey, at least you picked up a win today and the North is a wacky conference, you never know.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:36:34 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:



Well here is a BIO for a RAF officer who was in Egypt at the time.

http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Bateson_RN.htm


I love this group

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/7/2010 10:55:16 PM   
stuman


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Thanks again Bullwinkle for doing this.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 12:49:10 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Thanks again Bullwinkle for doing this.


No problem. It's kind of interesting to figure out the best way to cripple the game, make it prostrate, and just maneuver the forces you need to prove the point.

Watching the end of the Vikings' come-back OT victory, I did launch a New Zealand force as well as an AOed CONUS-bound TF with the full 4th Division aboard. I got them in range, but I have to do other things tonight. I'll put both ashore (Canada too) tomorrow and post the results.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 1:08:53 AM   
Razz


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Go Vikings.

Now win everygame.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 1:20:52 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Watching the end of the Vikings' come-back OT victory, I did launch a New Zealand force as well as an AOed CONUS-bound TF with the full 4th Division aboard. I got them in range, but I have to do other things tonight. I'll put both ashore (Canada too) tomorrow and post the results.

Thanks, Interesting stuff

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 11:38:02 AM   
michaelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

You're still getting a jumbled end of list in the convoy display.  Is this typical or are you using an older version?


Not enough room to show all 20 devices of the unit.
I think it might have been addressed by moving the block up one line, but not sure. [future patch]

< Message edited by michaelm -- 11/8/2010 11:59:46 AM >


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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 12:43:15 PM   
beppi

 

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If the supply is triggered in 1943, does it mean you get a lot of outdated AIF and British Suads for the pools ?

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 1:55:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: beppi

If the supply is triggered in 1943, does it mean you get a lot of outdated AIF and British Suads for the pools ?


That was a question I had too. It seems like a LOT of code for little return to have the reinforcments in every theater have to, on a device-by-device basis, keep up with the evolving OOB. And this for events which will happen in probably less than 1% of games.

OTOH, if the reinforcments are frozen into 12/7/1941 structures, they are a lot less fearsome if the player crosses a line in the fall of 1944, say. Especially the aircraft.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 2:05:25 PM   
Panther Bait


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Then again if the Japanese are invading Australia in the Fall of 1944, there's something very strange going on with that game already. Either:

1. The Japanese have run the table everywhere else and are just getting to Australian, in which case those planes/troops might be all that is left, or

2. It was some sort of super-commando raid in desperation, so a bunch of 1942 leftovers can probably handle it anyway.

Mike


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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 2:09:17 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Then again if the Japanese are invading Australia in the Fall of 1944, there's something very strange going on with that game already. Either:

1. The Japanese have run the table everywhere else and are just getting to Australian, in which case those planes/troops might be all that is left, or

2. It was some sort of super-commando raid in desperation, so a bunch of 1942 leftovers can probably handle it anyway.

Mike



True, but my point is also valid for Japanese emergency reinforcments if the Allied player lands in the Kuriles, for example. And while I agree that India, Oz, Canada or the USA are probably off the table in a late-war game, a Hail Mary at New Zealand for VPs, perhaps routed in secret around the west coast of Oz, might be possible if the Japanese player still holds Java or Sumatra in force. Might be enough to stall an Allied auto-vic for awhile.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 11/8/2010 4:57:14 PM >


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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 3:54:50 PM   
beppi

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Then again if the Japanese are invading Australia in the Fall of 1944, there's something very strange going on with that game already. Either:

1. The Japanese have run the table everywhere else and are just getting to Australian, in which case those planes/troops might be all that is left, or

2. It was some sort of super-commando raid in desperation, so a bunch of 1942 leftovers can probably handle it anyway.

Mike



It is not the fall of 1944 which is the problem. It is spring of 1943 where the problem alread occours. If you want to upgrade you sqads to 1943 ones all 1942 ones are useless. And as you cant stop a unit from upgrading if you want to accept replacement. You have a problem as damaged units will automatically upgrade to 1943 ones if they dont have a lot of sqads active.

And until summer of 1943 i think some offensive operations in Australia can be possible.

As a note i dont like the system at all that unused sqads remain in the pool forever. To avoid exploitation for example automatic upgrades for sqads in the pool after 6 month when the new sqads are available should be possible.

And thanks to Bullwinkle58 for the information. Comes quite handy.

< Message edited by beppi -- 11/8/2010 3:57:06 PM >

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:13:45 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Bateson, R.N. reassigned

OK, I'll bite. Who is Bateson?


FWIW, this guy did the "enless reassign" cycle for several turns after the invasion of Tasmania, while the TF was heading for New Zealand for the next test.

I'm not sure the Ops Report formatting is exactly chronological. I'm not sure Bateson or the merchant ships or the AMs at Aukland are part of the emergency reinforcment module code. I think the activation notice is made in the Ops Report, then the rest of the normal stuff that would happen on that turn anyway is logged, then the module activating the emergency LCUs is called. Just a hunch based on there being no real utility in activating a couple of miscellaneous xAKs and AMs while bringing the Big Hurt onto the board at the same time. If there was a free activation of some ETO capital ships or carriers I'd buy it, but some small fry merchies doesn't seem to fit.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:18:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

4) The units are pretty typical (I don't want to post ten more jpegs.) The emergency supply convoy arriving at Cape Town has this composition:





Since there seems to be a fair bit of interest in this topic, I thought I'd go ahead and post, for the archives, JPEGs of what gets activated in Oz.

1) 44th British Division








Attachment (1)

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:20:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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2) 2nd British Para






Attachment (1)

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:22:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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3) 1st AA Bde








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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:24:39 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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4) 7th SA Armoured






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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:26:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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5) 9th Aus Div






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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:28:14 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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6) 27th Rhodesian Brig






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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:31:44 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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7) Natal Mtd Rifles






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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 5:35:22 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Several things jump out of these emergency forces Andy Mac put together, First, they almost all are under-supported, in a few cases seriously so. They'll need some time to reconstitute either at their arrival base, or in a safe, well-supplied hex in Oz. Second, their stats, especially experience, are all over the board. Third, so is their leadership. Fourth, there are some odd devices in a few of them, such as the Natal Mtd Rifles. I don't know how well they'll do replacements if you get them banged up.

Enjoy.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 9:58:31 PM   
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I don't see much of a problem with the outdated OOBs. They are not so odious and every unit comes with a full compliment of squads and support weapons even if they are a bit dated. I would rather have them than not. Most important is that they all have a full compliment of vickers squads (never enough) and all have the 25 pounder guns instead of the weaker 18 pounders. Some have the 6 pounder AT gun. And, the SA armored brigade's valentine and stuart tanks are plenty good enough to whip any Japanese tank unit until 1945. In mid 1943 in my campaign I still have plenty of valentine equipped units. Biggest thing missing is the improved AT value that Commonwealth 1943 squads have but I see that every unit has the piat bren carriers which would help. Bigger problem is the low morale and experience of some units in my view.

If they get triggered late in the game, the Allied player should have plenty of surplus that the units would upgrade very quickly anyways.

Funny, I noticed that the India trip line units have a mix of 42 and 43 squads while one division has the Commonwealth 44 squads! A powerful unit indeed if it comes in in 1942.

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RE: Oz Emergency Reinforcments--Tasmania - 11/8/2010 11:00:01 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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OOB's and squads will upgrade quickly if they arrive later.

Most of the European TOE units are undersupported organically one of the Jungle changes is to reducve the amount of heavy weapons and increase the organic support % of these units

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