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Practical Question - 11/4/2010 1:08:58 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		First, a map that I've just started:




For those of you who may be curious, it's the Gulf of Salerno and surrounding land-mass.

I have a question for our readers, though.

I've rotated the map about 60 degrees so that more of it will be visible on a widescreen monitor (without scrolling).

Would you prefer the map laid on its side, like this, or would you prefer it running north/south?

If I go with the latter choice, about 40% of the 60k x 35k map will not be visible on a 1920x1200 monitor.

However, laid on its side, only about 10% is hidden.

Any preference, gentlemen?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 11/4/2010 1:13:25 AM >

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RE: Practical Question - 11/4/2010 1:31:20 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Keep it the way you have done it...

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RE: Practical Question - 11/4/2010 1:58:40 AM   
Franklin Nimitz

 

Posts: 541
Joined: 6/23/2007
From: The House of the Mouse
Status: offline 		Another vote for 'keep it'.

edit: of course you realize that you'll have to do the entire Italian campaign with maps like that.

< Message edited by Franklin Nimitz -- 11/4/2010 1:59:05 AM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Practical Question - 11/4/2010 3:15:07 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Thanks for your comments.

I'll attach an image of the map in SM, so you can see how dramatic the difference is with an elongated map:




Rotated more or less horizontally, I only lose about 7k. Left in the vertical, however, I'd lose about 25k.

Of course, someday, I'm going to catch hell for this from a user who hasn't quite thought things through..."THAT'S THE GULF OF SALERNO?"

Mark my words.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 11/4/2010 3:18:43 AM >

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Government is the opiate of the masses.

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Post #: 4
RE: Practical Question - 11/4/2010 4:16:28 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

edit: of course you realize that you'll have to do the entire Italian campaign with maps like that.


Yeah, I guess that's just the nature of the beast.

The peninsula runs roughly SE to NW, and the "front" will typically be perpendicular to the coast.


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RE: Practical Question - 11/4/2010 9:30:13 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I like attacking UP through the map rather than down, so your rotation works for me. However, I remeber a lot of Rome or Medieval: Total War maps were "distorted" (if that word has any meaning when trying to represent the globe on a flat surface) or rotated to get in certain countries, like India, given the hard coded map size limit. I felt it made navigating the map less intuitive, but considering how zoomed in the map is anyway i suppose it isn't an issue.

Just remember to put a North arrow or you're high school geography teacher will mark you down. Oh, a title, legend and scale!

PS. Ever played any of AGEOD's games? Like "Birth of America"? It has a full blown cartouche just off the playing area.

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Post #: 6
RE: Practical Question - 11/5/2010 12:46:45 AM   
Deathtreader


Posts: 656
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

I like attacking UP through the map rather than down, so your rotation works for me. However, I remeber a lot of Rome or Medieval: Total War maps were "distorted" (if that word has any meaning when trying to represent the globe on a flat surface) or rotated to get in certain countries, like India, given the hard coded map size limit. I felt it made navigating the map less intuitive, but considering how zoomed in the map is anyway i suppose it isn't an issue.

Just remember to put a North arrow or you're high school geography teacher will mark you down. Oh, a title, legend and scale!



Plus one.

Rob.

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Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)

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Post #: 7
RE: Practical Question - 11/8/2010 2:32:15 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Well, several hours later a map emerges. Twenty-one-hundred square kilometers and fifteen altitude-layers later, it's ready for towns, roads, rivers, vegetation and labels:




Attachment (1)

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RE: Practical Question - 11/8/2010 9:21:04 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
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Status: offline 		Is it possible to recreate beach landings using the est editor?

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Post #: 9
RE: Practical Question - 11/8/2010 12:08:52 PM   
simovitch


Posts: 3898
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		There is no amphibious movement class yet. The best way I found was to bring the groups in by reinforcement with high cohesion loss and variable casualties. Check out Assault on the Sauer for an example of an amphibious landing.

Nice map POE!

< Message edited by simovitch -- 11/8/2010 12:09:39 PM >

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RE: Practical Question - 11/8/2010 11:58:23 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Care to post the map(s) you're working from? Are you working off one or multiple, and how closely?

I've taken to using a radar DEM for the elevation layers and then simple maps from books for the vegetation & human geography. For my Syria-Lebanon project I picked up a really nice 1950's Lebanon tourist guide map from a charity shop the other day which i'm thinking of using instead of the GSGS style maps i have right now - its just so much cleaner!

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Post #: 11
RE: Practical Question - 11/9/2010 5:07:59 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

Care to post the map(s) you're working from? Are you working off one or multiple, and how closely?


See below.

It might appear to be a google map, but its not. When you go to Google/Terrain/Contours, they will offer you an option/redirect to "Earth Tools". The hook is that it offers superior contour definition to those that you'll get in Google Maps. I'm very much open to the whole "radar thing," but its nice to have other items defined like rivers, towns and roads.







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Government is the opiate of the masses.

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RE: Practical Question - 11/10/2010 10:31:08 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Huh, simple! I like it.

Maybe we should get a sticky thread with these kinds of hints and tips - i know my browser likes to default these forums to "show only forum posts from the last 6 months" which can make a forum/game look dead. If something were stickied with lots of pictures it might advertise the fact that this game is moddable, and how you go about it, for those that skip manuals and then forget!

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Post #: 13
RE: Practical Question - 11/10/2010 10:53:19 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Sorry for not posting a link to "EARTHTOOLS."

You can find it here:

http://www.earthtools.org/

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Post #: 14
RE: Practical Question - 11/27/2010 4:24:45 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Well, the "beta-version" is pretty much complete. I'll add some orchards, tobacco fields and vineyards later on, but this is basically it:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 11/27/2010 4:25:22 AM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Practical Question - 11/27/2010 9:18:31 AM   
OlegHasky


Posts: 147
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Hamburg
Status: offline 		Ive been waiting long time to see this diamond polished.
And the shine is magical.
PoE - your keeping the crossbar very high for any map/scenario maker.


< Message edited by OlegHasky -- 11/27/2010 9:21:48 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Practical Question - 11/28/2010 2:31:51 AM   
Chief Rudiger

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		That marsh behind the beach looks like a double edged sword. Restricts exists but pervents being overrun by Tanks. Doesn't look like there's much cover on the beach though, so i know which side i'd want to be on!

Thought about putting some "Islands" in the water to represent warships? I haven't read much about Salerno but I imagine, like in Normandy, the Naval Bombardment must've been crucial to consolidation and the "Battle of the Build Up" even after you've got some big guns ashore.

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Post #: 17
RE: Practical Question - 11/30/2010 12:36:39 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OlegHasky

Ive been waiting long time to see this diamond polished.
And the shine is magical.
PoE - your keeping the crossbar very high for any map/scenario maker.


Thank you for you comments, but you're being too kind.

I am but a humble/dedicated amateur, and that I shall evermore remain!

Hey, though, OlegHasky, you ought to try your hand at this stuff.

I bet you'd do a terrific job.


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RE: Practical Question - 11/30/2010 12:51:17 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

That marsh behind the beach looks like a double edged sword. Restricts exists but pervents being overrun by Tanks. Doesn't look like there's much cover on the beach though, so i know which side i'd want to be on!

Thought about putting some "Islands" in the water to represent warships? I haven't read much about Salerno but I imagine, like in Normandy, the Naval Bombardment must've been crucial to consolidation and the "Battle of the Build Up" even after you've got some big guns ashore.


The marsh behind the beach isn't the only problem. There's a drainage canal that runs through it that can only be transited by vehicles at a proper crossing or bridge.

Salerno was actually an opposed landing, BTW.

The German defenses weren't heavy, but the Allies eschewed a pre-invasion bombardment thinking that they could surprise the defenders. It didn't work out that way. And several USA units were pretty much wrecked by the end of September 9th.

Later the British and US navies did intervene, and were key in defeating the several German battlegroups that were roaming around the center of the Allied position. And I believe that it was in the Gulf of Salerno that the Germans first successfully employed their "mistel" guided bombs against Allied ships in response to that same shelling.

We'll have to make our navy sinkable!


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Post #: 19
RE: Practical Question - 12/2/2010 1:59:29 AM   
GoodGuy

 

Posts: 1469
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From: Cologne, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

And I believe that it was in the Gulf of Salerno that the Germans first successfully employed their "mistel" guided bombs against Allied ships in response to that same shelling.

We'll have to make our navy sinkable!



Hi Moe :-)

The "mistel" was in fact the "Fritz X" (radio) guided bomb, it was employed on Sicily first (mid 1943), with a notable following mission around September, where 6 Dornier 217, each armed with one "Fritz X", were tasked to take out the Italian capital ships (Battleships Roma and Italia), Roma was sunk and Italia damaged.
There's some German propaganda footage showing Luftwaffe bombing runs after the initial phase of the landings at Anzio (some US color film material shows some desperate Luftwaffe attempts, too), but I don't think that they had used Fritz bombs. During the Salerno operation, a cruiser got hit by a single "Fritz X", but the ship didn't sink. Other than that single run, I haven't come across info that would prove that more than this one Fritz was employed, but if so, the others had missed and just dropped into the sea.

In turn, the Mistel was a German "parasite airplane"-project, a setup where a bigger aircraft would carry a smaller aircraft (eg. interceptor or kamikaze plane).

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 12/2/2010 2:08:38 AM >

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RE: Practical Question - 12/2/2010 3:26:45 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2449
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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

During the Salerno operation, a cruiser got hit by a single "Fritz X", but the ship didn't sink. Other than that single run, I haven't come across info that would prove that more than this one Fritz was employed, but if so, the others had missed and just dropped into the sea.


I've been reading up on this, but to tell you the truth Salerno isn't particularly well-documented (IMHO). However, I do recall several references to ships that were assigned to support the landing being hit by guided bombs. Anyway, I searched the issue briefly, and found this link that details the damage done by the weapons in tabular form: http://www.ausairpower.net/Warship-Hits.html




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RE: Practical Question - 12/2/2010 9:38:34 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Tabular Form!!!!!!!!

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Post #: 22
RE: Practical Question - 12/2/2010 10:14:29 PM   
simovitch


Posts: 3898
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		You may want to consider some clear terrain (shaped like ships?) out in the Gulf to place your naval guns.

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