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House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 1:36:50 AM   
davbaker

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		I'm looking to add a section on some common house rules to my Newbie FAQ (and to also clarify some things in my mind).
I do realise they everyone has different views on these things, but want to try build a basic set of common sense rules.

All of these have been cut / pasted from 'looking for opponent' forum then I tried to group common ones together.

Any comments / suggestions / clarifications would be appreciated.

Cheers

Dave


1. TURN 1
No allied CV hunting on turn 1.
Japanese player knows where they are, too easy to find and sink.

2. 4 ENGINE BOMBERS
No 4 E naval bombing below 10,000ft
Too Effective / Not Historical ?

3. POLITICAL POINTS
Permanently Restricted Units must not cross national Borders.
Full PP for transfer of units from restricted HQs
i.e. PP to move out of Kwantung/Manchuko, India & China.
No switching land unit to air HQs etc. to do this cheaply
Full PP to transfer units from restricted HQs to allow movement across borders.
Thai forces can not move out of 3 hexes of their national frontier.
AVG must remain in Burma or China.
Various fixes to correct issues with the PP systems shortcomings.

4. NIGHT AIR ATTACKS
Restrict continuous night attacks or any night attack early in the war (until 1944?)
Not historical?

5. INVASIONS / LAND COMBAT
No sub invasions.
No airdropping 1 squad via airdrop.
Only allow landings/invasions at dots hexes or bases.
No use of portions of parachute units to seize hex's
No unit fragment to cut off retreat, Units blocking retreats must be of realistic size (brigade or above).
Only airdrop a unit on a target if it has at least 40 Prep Points on the target it’s dropped on.
Gamey Tactics ? 

6. STRATEGIC BOMBING
No strategic bombing in or out of China until 4/43
No Chinese City bombing until 1944.
No bombing of Chinese Industry.
Stop unbalancing of China Theatre?

7. NAVAL MOVEMENT
Malacca strait must not be crossed by IJN surface ships until Singapore is in IJA hands.
Workaround for Naval guns shortcomings at Singapore?

8. PT BOATS
All PT in the same hex must be in one TF.
Gamey?

9. ART
Only two independent artillery units may bombard for each division in the hex.
Stops Japanese Death Star Atrillery / Evacuation of all ART from Manchuria?

10.AIR COMBAT
Maximum mission altitude for fighters resticted to band with maximum maneuverability.
Helps with constant 'Dive' when using max altitude

< Message edited by davbaker -- 10/28/2010 1:57:33 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 1:43:33 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Air Combat
Maximum mission altitude for fighters resticted to band with maximum maneuverability.
I don't use this but sometimes it makes sense.

< Message edited by jomni -- 10/28/2010 1:45:20 AM >

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Post #: 2
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 1:48:12 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5266
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		RESTRICTED UNITS should be prohibited from crossing national borders. This is a necessary rule.

Others are fine, though many shouldn't need to be listed and are common sense (like dropping 2 para squads on a stack to reduce AV)

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Post #: 3
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 1:53:38 AM   
davbaker

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

RESTRICTED UNITS should be prohibited from crossing national borders. This is a necessary rule.



Thanks, thats what I meant to say will reword.


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Post #: 4
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 1:55:08 AM   
davbaker

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Air Combat
Maximum mission altitude for fighters resticted to band with maximum maneuverability.
I don't use this but sometimes it makes sense.


Think this may be force fixed in an upcoming patch to deal with the max altitude sweep / cap / dive etc.


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Post #: 5
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 2:12:01 AM   
topeverest

 

Posts: 1613
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Atlanta, GA - USA
Status: offline 		That's a-lot of meatballs...not my cup of tea,

but if you and your opponent agree...

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Post #: 6
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 2:31:14 AM   
davbaker

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		I'm not trying to create a definitive list, just get some input & clarification on various house rules I've seen suggested on the 'looking for players' forum.

Think of it as a smorgasboard that a player new to PBEM can look through and pick a few to suggest to their opponent.

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 7
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 2:36:09 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1356
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: chiang mai ,thailand
Status: offline 		1.My rule is the cap can fly at 26,000 feet Max and sweeps can not go over 25,000 feet Max works well for us helps defender.

2.PBYs no torps until june 42 to stop gamey use of these planes

3.Allied subs that are not at sea Dec 7 cannot go on attack missions until the new year as most were not able to...(if anyone has record and any sinkings by allied subs (1941) on the japanese please share )
4. US and the KB carriers return to port after Dec 7.

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Post #: 8
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 2:48:41 AM   
topeverest

 

Posts: 1613
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Atlanta, GA - USA
Status: offline 		OK, here are a few thoughts on some.  I think you know by now I believe in few and play with only one.

1.  If american CV's dont replot on T1, why shouldnt they be targets for KB
2.  Naval attack skill must be trained to be effective in LB's.  there should be no definitive extra hurdle.  
3.  Sub raiding / attacks have historical basis.  There is no reason to remove this.
4.  Attack only at bases...no historical basis for this.
5.  IJN restriction on Malacca straight.  Why would you limit the empire this way?
6.  PT boat 'fragment' TF's.  I get the target here, but disagree there is a need.  Also, Are players not allowed to have mulitple single DD TF's or any other ship type also?
7.  Artillery is a marginal multiplier.  no cutdown is needed
8.  prep points required for para...why?
9.  Uber A2A altitude advantage fix.  No need for this.


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Post #: 9
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 2:59:18 AM   
SuluSea


Posts: 1900
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Thai forces can not move out of 3 hexes of their national frontier.



I wonder why some insist on this when the developers hardcoded the troops to Thailand and didn't the RTA  bail on Imperial forces when the war went south?

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Post #: 10
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 3:12:42 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1356
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: chiang mai ,thailand
Status: offline 		The thai only join the japanese to keep the peace Because the thai people were not intrested in the war at all they just want to be left alone....same now days they dont give a Rats Ass..its great that is hard coded.

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Post #: 11
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 3:25:38 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3852
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

The thai only join the japanese to keep the peace Because the thai people were not intrested in the war at all they just want to be left alone....same now days they dont give a Rats Ass..its great that is hard coded.


I will use them to hold a few places like Tavoy, etc on the Andaman sea.

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Post #: 12
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 4:40:12 AM   
bigred


Posts: 2611
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		No rules. One day I will play this game w/ no rules. As japan I will probably have to deal w/the indian army at palembang.

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Post #: 13
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 4:57:54 AM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6199
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

3.Allied subs that are not at sea Dec 7 cannot go on attack missions until the new year as most were not able to...(if anyone has record and any sinkings by allied subs (1941) on the japanese please share )


The first US submarine left Manila on war patrol on Dec 8, 1941. The first left PH on Dec 11. This would be a pretty useless and ahistoric HR.

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Post #: 14
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 5:32:33 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1174
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

OK, here are a few thoughts on some.  I think you know by now I believe in few and play with only one.

1.  If american CV's don't re-plot on T1, why shouldn't they be targets for KB




How about "because the Japanese didn't have a clue where in several million square miles of ocean they were."? You (the player) may know with the advantage of hindsight..., but Nagumo & Co. certainly did not.

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Post #: 15
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 8:19:04 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1356
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: chiang mai ,thailand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

3.Allied subs that are not at sea Dec 7 cannot go on attack missions until the new year as most were not able to...(if anyone has record and any sinkings by allied subs (1941) on the japanese please share )


The first US submarine left Manila on war patrol on Dec 8, 1941. The first left PH on Dec 11. This would be a pretty useless and ahistoric HR.

They sent some and only a few but what did they do...zip....with full control in the game you can kill a lot of ships because there are so many japanese ship running around its far from what happend..so we use only the ones as sea, they get they day in the sun...as far as i can find around 30 ships were lost by the japanese to feb 42 all causes.

from were i set its fair....but each to his own.

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Post #: 16
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 8:41:55 AM   
JeffK


Posts: 4675
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: In a little tin hut in a big tin shed
Status: offline 		According to Silent Victory by Clay Blair

7 patrols left PH in December, 7 sinkings were claimed though JANAC only credited 4.
Due to the 20 day trip to japanese waters it was not until 31/12/41 Gudgeon fired on a Freighter.

There were a further 2 patrols at both Midway & Wake for no claims.


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Post #: 17
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 8:50:12 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 6227
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: online 		Just my comments:

Artillery death star got beat to death with the nerf bat. That rule is unnecessary now.

Aerial Mining: I generally play with a rule limiting this to 1 squadron per turn and not done at all until 1944 since the mission can not be intercepted.

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Post #: 18
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 9:17:41 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 12000
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

No rules. One day I will play this game w/ no rules. As japan I will probably have to deal w/the indian army at palembang.




probably not, because the Indian Army is mostly restricted so can´t be moved to Palembang without paying the pp, which is how it is supposed. Therefor also the rule about crossing borders with restricted units.

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Post #: 19
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 10:14:24 AM   
Dobey

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

3.Allied subs that are not at sea Dec 7 cannot go on attack missions until the new year as most were not able to...(if anyone has record and any sinkings by allied subs (1941) on the japanese please share )


The first US submarine left Manila on war patrol on Dec 8, 1941. The first left PH on Dec 11. This would be a pretty useless and ahistoric HR.

They sent some and only a few but what did they do...zip....with full control in the game you can kill a lot of ships because there are so many japanese ship running around its far from what happend..so we use only the ones as sea, they get they day in the sun...as far as i can find around 30 ships were lost by the japanese to feb 42 all causes.

from were i set its fair....but each to his own.


In all fairness saying "The allied player cannot fight a successful sub war in Dec 1941 cause it didn't happen in real life" would be about on par with a HR that says "The japanese player must allow 4 of his carriers to be sunk by mid 1942, because thats what happened...."

Just my 2c. Obviously Each to their own.

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Post #: 20
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 10:46:24 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 1356
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: chiang mai ,thailand
Status: offline

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Post #: 21
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 12:26:35 PM   
jrcar

 

Posts: 3598
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Seymour, Australia
Status: offline 		My thoughts below:


quote:

ORIGINAL: davbaker

I'm looking to add a section on some common house rules to my Newbie FAQ (and to also clarify some things in my mind).
I do realise they everyone has different views on these things, but want to try build a basic set of common sense rules.

All of these have been cut / pasted from 'looking for opponent' forum then I tried to group common ones together.

Any comments / suggestions / clarifications would be appreciated.

Cheers

Dave


1. TURN 1
No allied CV hunting on turn 1.
Japanese player knows where they are, too easy to find and sink.
agree

2. 4 ENGINE BOMBERS
No 4 E naval bombing below 10,000ft
Too Effective / Not Historical ?
No need. non attack bombers suffer a penalty when below 6000ft, and naval strike performance heavily dependant on pilot skill. If a player makes a (good?) tactical choice to focus on naval strike over other skills then they should be allowed to reap any reward. There are now enough cost/benefits (certainly compared to WITP) that makes this rule redundant. Also, in real life 4E bombers DID operate this way.

3. POLITICAL POINTS
Permanently Restricted Units must not cross national Borders.
Agree
Full PP for transfer of units from restricted HQs
i.e. PP to move out of Kwantung/Manchuko, India & China.
yep this is one area that wasn't "fixed" by the developers
No switching land unit to air HQs etc. to do this cheaply
Yep gamey
Full PP to transfer units from restricted HQs to allow movement across borders.
Already covered above?
Thai forces can not move out of 3 hexes of their national frontier.
Don't care :) but yes I think it is reasonable
AVG must remain in Burma or China.
Disagree, I thiought historically they did plan to or did operate out of Malaya/Singapore... They got a bounty for each Japanese kill claim wherever that kill was by the Chinese.
Various fixes to correct issues with the PP systems shortcomings.

4. NIGHT AIR ATTACKS
Restrict continuous night attacks or any night attack early in the war (until 1944?)
Not historical?
Mixed on this, I've seen limited effectiveness in game, but in real life the missions that were flown where even less effective... probably not doing it is a good thing for both sides.

5. INVASIONS / LAND COMBAT
No sub invasions.
No airdropping 1 squad via airdrop.
Only allow landings/invasions at dots hexes or bases.
No use of portions of parachute units to seize hex's
No unit fragment to cut off retreat, Units blocking retreats must be of realistic size (brigade or above).
Only airdrop a unit on a target if it has at least 40 Prep Points on the target it’s dropped on.
Gamey Tactics ?
Agree except for landings at Dot bases/hexes. Para landings maybe but you have to be able to capture them somehow! 

6. STRATEGIC BOMBING
No strategic bombing in or out of China until 4/43
No Chinese City bombing until 1944.
No bombing of Chinese Industry.
Stop unbalancing of China Theatre?

Yep agree with all these.

7. NAVAL MOVEMENT
Malacca strait must not be crossed by IJN surface ships until Singapore is in IJA hands.
Workaround for Naval guns shortcomings at Singapore?

Agree

8. PT BOATS
All PT in the same hex must be in one TF.
Gamey?

PT's are now far less effective and I don't think this is absolutely required... I often have 2 PT groups at a base, on on defence, one sweeping nearby bases. Having 10 1 PT boat squadrons is wrong... maybe sqndron size minimum of 4-6 boats?

9. ART
Only two independent artillery units may bombard for each division in the hex.
Stops Japanese Death Star Atrillery / Evacuation of all ART from Manchuria?

No longer required thankfully. The current system is much more like real life.

10.AIR COMBAT
Maximum mission altitude for fighters resticted to band with maximum maneuverability.
Helps with constant 'Dive' when using max altitude


I'm mixed on this, my Aircobras at 14k feet (their optimum) decimated KB when it came a visiting (one unit has 120 kills, all from KB). Despite being "swept". Altitude is important, but isn't everything. Part of the complaints are more to do with players not having the tactical nous in the first place. On the other hand in the Pacific few missions were flown about 25k feet. I think tweaks in the next patch will remove any need, and I don't think it is really there now... it certainly helps to have height but you can tactically work around it... just like in real life.


Cheers

Rob

< Message edited by jrcar -- 10/28/2010 12:28:01 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 12:37:23 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 3811
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline
quote:


1. TURN 1
No allied CV hunting on turn 1.
Japanese player knows where they are, too easy to find and sink.


Seems like common sense to me.

quote:


2. 4 ENGINE BOMBERS
No 4 E naval bombing below 10,000ft
Too Effective / Not Historical ?


Probably unnecessary, 4Es really are not very effective in the naval bombing role unless you train them up, and training bomber pilots is very hard for the Allies in 1942. I've used and abused them at low level and they've done nothing except die.

quote:

3. POLITICAL POINTS
Permanently Restricted Units must not cross national Borders.
Full PP for transfer of units from restricted HQs
i.e. PP to move out of Kwantung/Manchuko, India & China.
No switching land unit to air HQs etc. to do this cheaply
Full PP to transfer units from restricted HQs to allow movement across borders.
Thai forces can not move out of 3 hexes of their national frontier.
AVG must remain in Burma or China.
Various fixes to correct issues with the PP systems shortcomings.


Pretty much a given I would say if you're being sporting. I wouldn't demand it as a house rule I suppose but I'd expect most people to stick to it anyway. I think you also shouldnt allow people to change a corps HQ and thus get all the subordinate units switched out 'for free'. Otherwise even the PP restriction is minor. I think restricted corps should not be able to change their commands, at all.

That said I'm not sure PPs, even if used in this way, really provide much of a restriction. I got masses of them all the time, hardly ever use em.

quote:

4. NIGHT AIR ATTACKS
Restrict continuous night attacks or any night attack early in the war (until 1944?)
Not historical?


Yeah I agree with this in theory, night bombing is ridiculously good. it's better than it was in WITP I think. I'm amazed more people don't complain about it, I remember in WITP it was a major bone of contention.

I can live with it though.

quote:

5. INVASIONS / LAND COMBAT
No sub invasions.
No airdropping 1 squad via airdrop.
Only allow landings/invasions at dots hexes or bases.
No use of portions of parachute units to seize hex's
No unit fragment to cut off retreat, Units blocking retreats must be of realistic size (brigade or above).
Only airdrop a unit on a target if it has at least 40 Prep Points on the target it’s dropped on.
Gamey Tactics ? 


Probably a bit gamey but most of them are easy to stop, and sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Not sure it really makes any odds overall.

quote:

6. STRATEGIC BOMBING
No strategic bombing in or out of China until 4/43
No Chinese City bombing until 1944.
No bombing of Chinese Industry.
Stop unbalancing of China Theatre?


Probably the only rule on your list I would demand, this is essential or China is toast and there's nothing you can do.

quote:

7. NAVAL MOVEMENT
Malacca strait must not be crossed by IJN surface ships until Singapore is in IJA hands.
Workaround for Naval guns shortcomings at Singapore?


Doubt it really matters. If they really want to go up there, why not.

quote:


8. PT BOATS
All PT in the same hex must be in one TF.
Gamey?


Doubt it really matters. PTs arent all that good now. Use DDs to weed em out.

quote:

9. ART
Only two independent artillery units may bombard for each division in the hex.
Stops Japanese Death Star Atrillery / Evacuation of all ART from Manchuria?


Artillery got nerfed pretty hard, its not an issue now really except in open hexes. Do not defend in open hexes! Problem solved, no rule needed.

quote:


10.AIR COMBAT
Maximum mission altitude for fighters resticted to band with maximum maneuverability.
Helps with constant 'Dive' when using max altitude


Don't think this really helps anything personally, it just changes some numbers around (swap 15k feet for 36k feet) which might make some people happy but the results are basically indistinguishable, just a different number on the combat report.

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Post #: 23
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 3:19:08 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12401
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: davbaker

I'm looking to add a section on some common house rules to my Newbie FAQ (and to also clarify some things in my mind).
I do realise they everyone has different views on these things, but want to try build a basic set of common sense rules.

All of these have been cut / pasted from 'looking for opponent' forum then I tried to group common ones together.

Any comments / suggestions / clarifications would be appreciated.

Cheers

Dave


1. TURN 1
No allied CV hunting on turn 1.
Japanese player knows where they are, too easy to find and sink. Agree. They had no idea where they were.

2. 4 ENGINE BOMBERS
No 4 E naval bombing below 10,000ft
Too Effective / Not Historical ? No. Training requirements obviate this.

3. POLITICAL POINTS
Permanently Restricted Units must not cross national Borders. Agree.
Full PP for transfer of units from restricted HQs
i.e. PP to move out of Kwantung/Manchuko, India & China. Agree.
No switching land unit to air HQs etc. to do this cheaply Agree.
Full PP to transfer units from restricted HQs to allow movement across borders. Agree.
Thai forces can not move out of 3 hexes of their national frontier. Agree.
AVG must remain in Burma or China. Add Malaya to this list.
Various fixes to correct issues with the PP systems shortcomings. Like what?

4. NIGHT AIR ATTACKS
Restrict continuous night attacks or any night attack early in the war (until 1944?)
Not historical? No. Just don't abuse it.

5. INVASIONS / LAND COMBAT
No sub invasions. No. AFAIK only transport subs can conduct invasions anyway.
No airdropping 1 squad via airdrop. How about 2 squads? Just don't be gamey.
Only allow landings/invasions at dots hexes or bases. Nonsense!
No use of portions of parachute units to seize hex's Problem: Air transport is fickle. Player should make realistic effort to transport entire unit or large portion of same. "Just don't be gamey."
No unit fragment to cut off retreat, Units blocking retreats must be of realistic size (brigade or above). Agree. Just don't be gamey.
Only airdrop a unit on a target if it has at least 40 Prep Points on the target it’s dropped on. No. What is the reason for this? Player will lose effectiveness based on prep. It's their dime.
Gamey Tactics ? Agree. Silly to spell out most of the rules in this section, and some are wrong.

6. STRATEGIC BOMBING
No strategic bombing in or out of China until 4/43 No. No strategic bombing into or out of China before 1944.
No Chinese City bombing until 1944. Agree, but see above.
No bombing of Chinese Industry. No. Changes to OOB were made to account for this (much Chinese industry is now daily supply).
Stop unbalancing of China Theatre?

7. NAVAL MOVEMENT
Malacca strait must not be crossed by IJN surface ships until Singapore is in IJA hands.
Workaround for Naval guns shortcomings at Singapore? No. I think Singapore CD guns take care of this?

8. PT BOATS
All PT in the same hex must be in one TF.
Gamey? Why? I typically limit myself to 2 (~6 PT each). Why 1? Just don't be gamey.

9. ART
Only two independent artillery units may bombard for each division in the hex.
Stops Japanese Death Star Atrillery / Evacuation of all ART from Manchuria? No. Obviated by code patches.

10.AIR COMBAT
Maximum mission altitude for fighters resticted to band with maximum maneuverability.
Helps with constant 'Dive' when using max altitude No. Too much clicking. Pick a specific altitude for all planes (in multiple of 5,000ft). Supposedly code patch will obviate this in the future.


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Post #: 24
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 3:20:33 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12401
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub




You made assertions when proposing an HR. Several posters have gone to the trouble of finding citations that contradict the assertions you made, and this is the best you can do?

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 25
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 4:08:54 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1174
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub




You made assertions when proposing an HR. Several posters have gone to the trouble of finding citations that contradict the assertions you made, and this is the best you can do?



Probably is. Sounds like one of these poor folks who confuse their opinions with fact.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 26
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 6:30:02 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6199
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

3.Allied subs that are not at sea Dec 7 cannot go on attack missions until the new year as most were not able to...(if anyone has record and any sinkings by allied subs (1941) on the japanese please share )


The first US submarine left Manila on war patrol on Dec 8, 1941. The first left PH on Dec 11. This would be a pretty useless and ahistoric HR.

They sent some and only a few but what did they do...zip....with full control in the game you can kill a lot of ships because there are so many japanese ship running around its far from what happend..so we use only the ones as sea, they get they day in the sun...as far as i can find around 30 ships were lost by the japanese to feb 42 all causes.

from were i set its fair....but each to his own.


I don't see how it's "fair." There were only four subs in PH on Dec 7. The one that left on Dec 11 was not one of them. Subs move, like all ships.

If you're going to insert this HR, do you do the same for all ships? That they can't leave port until they historically did so? Why not? What's so magical about submarines?

The game is not on rails. It gives the player the tools to write game history as he sees fit. Just because USN subs didn't sink anything the week of Dec 11th, why would you go to the trouble fo inserting a HR stating they can't try? It makes no sense.

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Post #: 27
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 6:35:07 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 6199
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Just my comments:

Artillery death star got beat to death with the nerf bat. That rule is unnecessary now.

Aerial Mining: I generally play with a rule limiting this to 1 squadron per turn and not done at all until 1944 since the mission can not be intercepted.


As a result of this thread I did some research on aerial mining last night, whcih I had never done before. I was shocked at how massive was the mining effort in the PTO, and the results. Several HUNDRED Japanese ships sunk from mines, and several hundred more damaged. Singapore, Saigon, and Cam Rahn Bay essentially shut down in 1944 from aerial mining. Several hundred B-29s devoted solely to mining. In contrast, submarine mining, which is in the game in a pretty big way, was minor.

The ability of the Allies to mine in the game is tiny compared to RL. I don't see the use of further nerfing it by a HR. The JFBs are already getting a Santa's-bag of presents.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/28/2010 10:32:15 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/28/2010 10:30:49 PM   
Barb


Posts: 1479
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		Hi, I will add some more I and my pbem enemy are trying or considering:
Constant dive and sweep advantages:
1. fighters on sweep can do that only up to their max mvr altitude
2. fighters can be set to CAP up to second highest mvr rating
3. units with sweep orders could send max 50% of their planes on sweep
Pace of Air operations and operational loses:
4. Land based Air forces should have at least 30% of their planes on rest.
Night bombing:
5. Heavy bombers (4E) could only bomb strategic targets at night (city attack), not tactical - airfields and ports

Set of first three rules were introduced only 10 or so turns ago, so we cannot really tell what efect they had - except that sweeps are used less often :o)
Rules 4 and 5 will be introduced in next turn.


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(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 29
RE: House Rules Discussion - 10/29/2010 12:29:34 AM   
vettim89


Posts: 3234
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Toledo, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

3.Allied subs that are not at sea Dec 7 cannot go on attack missions until the new year as most were not able to...(if anyone has record and any sinkings by allied subs (1941) on the japanese please share )


From my post regarding the Asiatic Fleet sub dispositions at war's start.

quote:


USS Salmon was at sea off the west coast of Luzon on 7/8 Dec 1941
USS Snapper was at sea in bound to Manila (she actually arrived ther on the 8th)
USS Sturgeon was at Mariveles Harbor (game location Bataan not Manila)
USS Porpoise was at Olongapo undergoing refit - should start with some syst damage (game location Clark Field)

That alone should reduce the number of SS at Manila from 27 to 23. Now of those remaining 23, eight are listed as having departed on 8 December 1941 (Stingray, S-38, S-41, Sailfish, Sargo, Saury, Seawolf, and Pike). The remaining fifteen departed over the next week except for Sealion which was sunk at Cavite on 14 December


The game already pretty accurately models the USN problems with dud torpedoes. I think limiting the US sub forces any more than that is not really necessary. If the Allied player is able to use his sub forces more effectively than his/her RL counterparts, it is up to the Japanese player to counter it.

HR are by nature only meant to do one of two things in my mind:

1. Account for aspects of the code that are distorted to the point to give an unfair advantage to one side. The old "no 4E on naval attack below xxx feet" rule is a good example. As pointed out already, this seems to be fixed in AE, but it was very necessary in WiTP

2. Account for those things that game cannot or does not address that were part of the RL situation. This type of rule is put in when players desire a certain "historocity" to there games. The AVG was not part of the USAAC until July 1942. They were bought and paid for by the KMT (and sympathetic US donors). Ergo. historically they should be used to keep the Burma road open or defend China. The code does not bar them from being moved anywhere on the map. Some players may say a HR should be in place. If both parties agree then so be it.

Some of type 1 rules are quite necessary. The type 2 rules are optional and add flavor to the game that some players enjoy.

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(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 30
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