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U Boat Pens

 
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U Boat Pens - 10/27/2010 5:29:01 PM   
ool


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Far too easy in this game to destroy. Just had 45 Typhoons go and attack Lorient and cause 100% damage to the pens. This in my view is ridiculous. Any thoughts?
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RE: U Boat Pens - 10/27/2010 6:39:52 PM   
Dobey

 

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Never seen that happen before.
Never tried it either though. Normally they are actually pretty tough to crack.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 10/27/2010 10:37:51 PM   
ool


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Only bomb that I know of that took out a pen in one shoot was the RAF's 11 ton bomb. Took one Lancaster to carry one of those. Saw a picture of the aftermath once. Went right through the roof. Exploded and a U-boat docked in the pen was blown up onto the dock at a 35 degree angle. In previous games I've found the pens along the French coast far too easy in my opinion to be damaged by B-17's.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 10/28/2010 6:30:03 PM   
fochinell

 

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re: the problems of damaging the U-boat pens in reality - yes, but surely the point is for the game to force you to attack the mandatory targets to meet political criteria, rather than actually destroy them for real. So far as I know they have no influence on the game dynamics (unlike the damage and consequent loss of production caused to industrial targets, RR and PORTs) and so the actual damage inflicted is less important than meeting the political demands to attack them; high damage means political objective satisfied, rather than objective damage to output.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 10/28/2010 10:45:23 PM   
ool


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I disagree. The harder the pens are the more the Allied player has to go deeper into Germany. Deeper into Germany means more effective interception. Add a lucky break in cloud cover or just plain bad bombing and you can extend the political interference a while longer to save you damage elsewhere. Had it happen in other games. Political interference coupled with bad results can buy you some useful time to regain morale on some units.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 10/30/2010 9:01:15 AM   
invernomuto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ool

I disagree. The harder the pens are the more the Allied player has to go deeper into Germany. Deeper into Germany means more effective interception. Add a lucky break in cloud cover or just plain bad bombing and you can extend the political interference a while longer to save you damage elsewhere. Had it happen in other games. Political interference coupled with bad results can buy you some useful time to regain morale on some units.


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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/1/2010 1:41:46 PM   
fochinell

 

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Sure, the UPEN mandatory stuff can give a nice break for the Axis player in the game. However, this doesn't necessarily mean the UPENS in Germany will always be the ones bombed. In my experience, the harder the pens are to damage overall, the more the ones in France get bombed. They will always be the most accessible targets, and were always more important politically than the German pens in any case.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/10/2010 4:01:47 PM   
Hard Sarge


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you got to be a pretty poor allied player to get forced into bombing the UPEN's, so I think your idea is off center

but, to the other point, I think 45 tiffies would of done much better then most of the high level bombers ever day, the hassle would of been range and light AA, but, the tiffies would of been able to pin point there targets, and locks and gates would of shut down the pens (besides other major target points) that the high level bombers were just hoping to get lucky and hit, so most aimed dead center of the pen roof, with little to no chance of doing anything to

when you think about it, a high level bomber raid, is counting on near misses to do most of the damage, a sub pen is not a target that, that idea is worth much

along those same lines, tests and studies, worked out that Tiffies and other fighter bombers at low alt, were the best way to take out the V-Sites, but the powers that be, said no, Med and Heavy bombers were needed, and what most don't know, most V-sites were very lightly defended, the Germans didn't want to attract attention to them


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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/11/2010 12:12:50 PM   
Derfel


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That the V-sites ver lightly defended is not quite right.

As the progress of finishing them and the first sites very knocked off, the Germans made a second launch type that they then started to establish.
These sites were lightly defended and well camouflaged in order not to draw atraction.

The Lanchsites of the first generation was however very heavily defended and all work on them was discontinued, except to draw attention to them.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/11/2010 1:26:55 PM   
Hard Sarge


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right but most of the first ones, were more storage, and or planned weapon sites (like the super gun)

the Germans seen how attention they were going to get, so used that, to make decoys, away from the real sites

what is really shocking is how many of them there were 

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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/12/2010 1:24:34 PM   
Erkki

 

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I think the UPENs are OK. After all the function in the game they play is force the Allied player bomb something that doesnt have an impact of any kind on the war in the air. Not that the German player would lose subs or Allied reinforcements would increase through their destruction, or anything.

It would be nice to see the ground war maybe progressing somewhat slower than historically if the Allied player didn't bomb the ground targets, too.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/12/2010 1:51:58 PM   
Hard Sarge


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a lot of things would of been nice, but most of it is a limit of the game engine in use

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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/12/2010 8:19:11 PM   
kaybayray

 

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to the original post...  <S>

No Offense intended but....

Uhh yeah right... I dont think so.

Try running both sides so you can see what thw actual damage is to the pens. Run any kind of attack you wish.. I mean ANYTHING.. put your entire air force against one sub pen and see what happens.

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RE: U Boat Pens - 11/12/2010 9:12:03 PM   
Hard Sarge


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ahhh, tiffies going in at 12 K or so, will hurt them bad, if not bothered by enemy air

my last try, first tiffy raid took it out, the Mitchells coming in behind them, got hit HARD by the AA, then the follow up Tiffies got hammered by the AA, lost 16 planes to AA and crashes (with no enemy air)

so, the close target can be taken out, at a cost, now the real trick is to keep doing it down the coast, Tiffies really are going to be going all that much deeper, so that leave the Mossies (and I would hate to use them on a target like UPENs, you could, if unlucky, lose the entire raid to AA and tailing fightings) or Bostons/Mitchells, and that is asking for trouble also)

also, remember, the raid also pays for any damage it takes before it bombs, so Flak before or as it gets there, can hurt the aim, along with fighter attacks before the target


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