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Why do you like PTO so much?

 
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Why do you like PTO so much? - 10/25/2010 4:37:35 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		[Changed the thread to me more interesting.]

Why do you like to play a game about PTO? I know there are many people who are more interested about WW2 ETO.

But for me, I am interested in PTO because I have my roots here... I'm Chinese, born in the Philippines, now living in Singapore. I'm exposed to Japanese culture. Know a bit about the language. And is interested in WW2. I can relate to both Allies and Japan in WITP (not just one side).


< Message edited by jomni -- 10/25/2010 5:09:58 AM >

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 4:52:42 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10228
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline 		Since you're relatively new around here - I will assume your post is in good faith - however - in my experience these types of threads often end up badly.

It is actually not relevant to either the game or the history of WITP - what the background of current forum members might be. And somehow some people wind up bending these discussions into shoving matches.

Another idea - which has worked - to skirt this topic - is to talk about what your daddy or grandaddy did in the war.

We'll give your thread a go - but I'm not optimistic.


==

BTW - my father was attached to the Royal Navy and stationed in Ceylon from 1943 to 1946. He was a designated "M Team" leader. The "M Teams" were to parachute into Burma, intercept and retransmit "magic" intercepts. Fortunately, for me, he never went on his mission. The equipment for his team never showed up in Ceylon. The average "in the field" live expectancy of "M Team" members was about 3 weeks IIRC.



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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 5:08:26 AM   
Torplexed


Posts: 215
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: The Pacific
Status: offline 		Well, I was born in Fukuoka, Japan, but to American parents. My father was stationed at the former Itazuke Air Force Base when it was still a USAF base. He was stationed a few years later to Okinawa, which I remember much better than Japan.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 5:19:23 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 14226
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The PTO is interesting because of the drama of the naval engagements, both surface and air.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 5:21:49 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3041
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Yep, to me it's the closest thing to a naval war between fleets of comparable strength. Most of history saw naval wars that were one-sided, either quantitatively or qualitatively.


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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 5:37:40 AM   
Bradley7735


Posts: 2073
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Status: offline 		Naval warfare interests me. If I liked soldiers and tanks more, I'd be playing Europe WWII games. But, I like ships and planes.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 5:57:53 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1178
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		I am actually more interested in the ETO..., but there is no game out there that matches the strategic, operational, and tactical scope of WITP-AE.  So I guess you could say that for me it's the SYSTEM as much as the SUBJECT that attracts me to this game.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 6:11:43 AM   
noguaranteeofsanity


Posts: 257
Joined: 11/24/2009
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I enjoy the large scale combined operations of air, naval and land forces during wartime across a vast theatre, between two fairly evenly matched sides, that you don't find in other theatres of WW2 or during other conflicts, before or since.

Also being an Australian, it is as close as conflict has come to our shores and the only time the country was threatened and attacked, which saw the largest and most significant commitment of Australian forces during wartime. While also was somewhat of a historical turning point for the country, when Australia turned towards the US to replace Britain, as our most important ally and begin to act in its own interests, somewhat independently from the British.

< Message edited by noguaranteeofsanity -- 10/25/2010 6:12:36 AM >

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 6:20:39 AM   
Pascal


Posts: 1634
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: in 'Haboob' country weekdays; the OC on w/ends
Status: offline 		I agree with all the posters so far. Large scale combined ops, the logistical problems, vast and varied theaters. And I've been a wargamer for 35 years. I never expected to be able to play WitP on paper (SPI; I have two copies!) Finally here I can!

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 6:57:49 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1203
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		For me it can be boiled down into two words: Naval Aviation. The combination of seeing movie Midway and a presentation of the Blue Angels when I was a kid started my dream of being a naval aviator. Got all the way through 2 years of ROTC to become a naval officer when they told me my "rod to cone ratio" was off. (2000 guys going for 800 spots and they needed an excuse to weed folks out I suppose)

The PTO was obviously the theater to study (and game) for me since this was my main interest. There were some minor carrier ops in the Atlantic, but obviously the PTO was the main area. My interest in the theater in general grew from there.

That said I do find the ETO more interesting to study overall, but there is just something about those big fleet carriers (both USN and IJN) that grabs me viscerally. To this day I see a CV and get mesmerized.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 7:04:10 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4721
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		My interest came with the game. The game was played because there was nothing comapreable.
Usually only ETO, but this has changed somehow...

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RE: Why do you like PTO so much? - 10/25/2010 7:10:04 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		You guys bring up a good point.

PTO is interesting because it results into a different type of wargame experience with focus on logistics, naval and air power, etc.

ETO is still more about traditional land battles.

< Message edited by jomni -- 10/25/2010 7:12:36 AM >

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 7:35:53 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 11041
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From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Since you're relatively new around here - I will assume your post is in good faith - however - in my experience these types of threads often end up badly.

It is actually not relevant to either the game or the history of WITP - what the background of current forum members might be. And somehow some people wind up bending these discussions into shoving matches.

Another idea - which has worked - to skirt this topic - is to talk about what your daddy or grandaddy did in the war.

We'll give your thread a go - but I'm not optimistic.


==

BTW - my father was attached to the Royal Navy and stationed in Ceylon from 1943 to 1946. He was a designated "M Team" leader. The "M Teams" were to parachute into Burma, intercept and retransmit "magic" intercepts. Fortunately, for me, he never went on his mission. The equipment for his team never showed up in Ceylon. The average "in the field" live expectancy of "M Team" members was about 3 weeks IIRC.


Warspite1

I must say I have no preference for either the ETO or PTO - it depends on what I am reading at the time. I love the naval aspect, which of course you get in abundance in the PTO and also in the ETO (but the PTO gives you the extra, large-scale naval aviation aspect). I have a big interest in the desert war, relatively small scale battles ..and then of course there is the mother of all land wars on the Eastern Front.

As for what parents did in the war, my dad and uncles fought in the British army (ETO) and my mum was a nurse, sent to Australia in the last year of the war (PTO).



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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 9:19:08 AM   
Commander Cody


Posts: 687
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: online 		I think it all started as a kid with Avalon Hill's Victory in the Pacific, the movie "Midway," TV show "Baa, Baa Black Sheep," although I go in waves between PTO, ETO (AH's Russian Campaign being my intro there), other wars, Civ and even 4X space. I've also always been more of an aircraft guy by interest and profession, and this theater and especially game offers plenty of that. Finally, living in the region and visiting a lot of the places helps sustain interest.

Cheers,
CC

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 9:53:22 AM   
cantona2


Posts: 3426
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From: Gibraltar
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

I am actually more interested in the ETO..., but there is no game out there that matches the strategic, operational, and tactical scope of WITP-AE.  So I guess you could say that for me it's the SYSTEM as much as the SUBJECT that attracts me to this game.



Ditto

More of a sudent of the war in Europe, particularly the Os Front! Though having played Witp and AE for a few years now, my interest in the Pacific has increased tenfold!

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 10:26:50 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4027
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		The PTO was a "different" kind of war than was ever seen before due to logistics, lack of infrastructure, new and untried technologies, island and jungle fighting and two very different cultures clashing.

I also like ships and planes more than land combat games.


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RE: Why do you like PTO so much? - 10/25/2010 1:36:20 PM   
berto


Posts: 1427
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Status: offline 		My father saw action -- Rhine River crossing -- late in WWII with the 101st Airborne. I am named after my "uncle", MIA in a bombing run over France in 1944. Despite that ...

I have always had a stronger fascination with the PTO, and the Far East in general. I studied Chinese language three years in college, lived in the Philippines for six years (and may retire there), speak/understand several Filipino languages, and have a Filipina for a wife.

The exotic locales and cultures, the tropics (love the jungle!), the combined arms air/sea/land operations ... the PTO has it all for me.

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Post #: 17
RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 1:50:04 PM   
amatteucci

 

Posts: 284
Joined: 5/14/2000
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		I don't like the PTO, actually. If there were a WitA or a WitM, I'd, probably, being playing it now.
But for a naval history buff that's also a wargamer I think that WitP is a must... it's a great game and I learned many things about naval warfare and WW2 history just playing it. BTW it's amazing that the whole thing is actually playable, given the sheer size of the theater and the scope of the operations...

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 2:24:06 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12039
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-NE ? "Cloud Coo-coo land"
Status: offline 		Someone (I think SE Morrison) once called the war in Europe "A land war, supported by sea and air forces", while the Pacific war was "A sea war supported by land and air and sea forces". That alone makes it unusual, if indeed not unique.Also the Pacific war did usually involve large land battles (except in China) Nor much in battles for large cities (excepting Manila,China and the bombing of cities--no Stalingrad type battles here). In involved greater distances than any war before . Mahan and Colbert were the "prophets" here, not Clausewitz and Jonimi. In short, I find this war interesting because it was so different than any other.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 4:10:42 PM   
RHoenig


Posts: 89
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I knew vitually nothing about the PTO when I started playing around with WITP. I am still more of a ETO guy, being German and all, but my interest in the PTO has increased a whole lot since starting with WITP.

Of course, I AM looking forward to WITE :)

PS: Thanks a bloody lot to WITP, AE and this community for ruining a whole lot of war-movies for me




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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 4:14:09 PM   
LST Express


Posts: 503
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Texas
Status: online 		Been interested in military history and ww2 since I was little, the entire war fascinates me. This game only increases my interest more.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 4:39:29 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 6346
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		I'm one of those either/or people. If there were a strategic turn based game as good as WiTP for the ETO, I'd be playing it too.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 5:14:01 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9171
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Most of us probably enjoy both ETO and PTO, but for very different reasons.  PTO really was war on a strategic level while ETO really was war on an operational level.

Hence, Operational Art of War is really fun to play ETO, but not at all in PTO, while WitP:AE is really fun to play PTO, but wouldn't work well in ETO.

The best strategic ETO game was Avalon Hill's Advanced Third Reich, which is a fantastic game that never made it to computers due to company's failures to adapt to the computer age, which led to its complete demise in the '90s.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 10/25/2010 6:56:26 PM >

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 5:35:25 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 14226
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		This game delivery is a good point. If there were a US Civil War game with 10km hexes, navigable rivers, cavalry, rail, logistical rules...etc, etc....my complexion would be even more sallow.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 6:23:30 PM   
janh

 

Posts: 1150
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		Would say my interested in PTO is any different than in ETO, the Civil War, Vietnam or very modern conflicts.  Beyond those, I probably wouldn't have interest enough to buy and play a game on another war, but I now and then do not mind reading a book on something "new".

ETO and WTO are truly different experiences, with different character in war.  Both have interesting points, and some less so.  And studying both is really needed to understand why many modern nations, armies and interests are shaped as they are today.

Which theater, be it air, naval, landwafare sims, or strategy, depends much on my daily mood.   And what game engine is there to explore the TO.  Needs to be really detailed, historically and physically accurate and realistic, and have a good AI -- and once you apply those criteria, you are not left with many games.  WITP-AE is one to consider for sure one, the new WitEast will be another one (steppingstone to a true WITE I hope), and then there are a very few really good simulations and tactical games like the Scourge of War/GB, and such.  But the list of games that I bought in recent years has become very short compared to what it was in the 90s.  Anyway, no true preference between ETO and WTO.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 6:43:47 PM   
aphrochine


Posts: 187
Joined: 3/24/2008
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		For me, it was absolutely listening to stories of my dad who flew in VMF-422. 

edit: ...in '44 and '45.

< Message edited by aphrochine -- 10/25/2010 6:44:37 PM >

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 7:17:27 PM   
Feltan


Posts: 567
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Well I am PTO for now.

But I may defect when "Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945" comes on line.

Which should be in any day/week/month/year from now.

Regards,
Feltan

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 7:23:07 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3612
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Similiar to what Cap Mandrake says above, WitE may make me somewhat pastier.

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 7:43:34 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1203
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Most of us probably enjoy both ETO and PTO, but for very different reasons.  PTO really was war on a strategic level while ETO really was war on an operational level.

Hence, Operational Art of War is really fun to play ETO, but not at all in PTO, while WitP:AE is really fun to play PTO, but wouldn't work well in ETO.

The best strategic ETO game was Avalon Hill's Advanced Third Reich, which is a fantastic game that never made it to computers due to company's failures to adapt to the computer age, which led to its complete demise in the '90s.


There was a computer Third Reich from Avalon Hill, the only problem was that it was an awful port of the board game and was an unsupported bug-fest.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/thirdreich/index.html

< Message edited by The Gnome -- 10/25/2010 7:55:28 PM >

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RE: Asian Players fall in - 10/25/2010 7:54:42 PM   
tbridges


Posts: 214
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		My Mom was an Army nurse on Saipan and once dated Paul Tibbets.

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