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Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign

 
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Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/25/2010 10:43:40 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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Here's a great resource for anyone who might want to create a short/small scenario for BftB:

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/lorraine/lorraine-content.html

It's chock full of maps and OOB data for the fighting in the fall of 1944. It's largely contemporaneous to the Ardennes Offensive (all the old German equipment has been destroyed in Normandy), so the aspiring scenario designer wouldn't have to do much, perhaps nothing, in the way of building weapons or units.








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< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 9/28/2010 2:46:47 AM >


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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/26/2010 3:55:13 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

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I have often thought a series of small scenarios like this would be great for demonstrating the intricacies of the engine.

One mission might start by demonstrating how attached tanks can aid infantry in an assualt on a posn which resists indirect artillery fire. The second phase of the scenario might be against a feature which prevents this armd support, but demonstrates that the mobility of a small force of armd cars or armd infantry equipped only with mortars can have an impact uot of all proportion to its size.

The scenario might culminate in a set piece battle between two identical force, which has reached stalemate, and challenges the player to break into the enemys rear with a small force and disrupt his artillery, command and logistics and therefore allow the mainforce, now no longer impeded by orders delay, to attack successfully.

The hypothetical maps might start in a linear way, say 10's of Km long but only 2-3 wide, or bounded by impasssible terrain, so as limit the players options, until the finale when multiple routes are offered, only one of which is feasible given the force mix offered by the particular random reinforcement schedule.

PS. One thing i hate about most contour maps, like the one above, is that unless contour labels are placed frequently you can sometimes mistake a hill for a depression, unless there's a river or some other feature giving it context. If, in addition, a hillshade or coloured layer background is used like in AA/Command Ops the contours are given alot more immediate effect. I love the new feature in BFTB mapmaker letting you cut and past terrain shapes from one altitude layer to the next, otherwise i'd never get anywhere with a map!

< Message edited by Chief Rudiger -- 9/26/2010 4:01:31 PM >

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/27/2010 8:58:52 AM   
Merv0728


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P o E,
the book you speak of is £75.00 ($118.00) for a used copy on Amazon.

Alan

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/27/2010 2:52:01 PM   
Franklin Nimitz

 

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It looks like it's all available online.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/27/2010 2:57:07 PM   
Merv0728


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Hi Franklin,
Yes I already have it,but it somehow isn't the same as sitting down in a nice armchair & reading a book.

Alan

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/27/2010 3:52:21 PM   
Franklin Nimitz

 

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For $118, I can pull any chair in the house up to my computer desk.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/27/2010 4:27:54 PM   
Merv0728


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I didn't mean I had the book,just the download.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/28/2010 12:26:04 AM   
Arjuna


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The Lorrain campaign would be ideal for scenarios for BFTB. As PoE says, there would be little in the way of estab work required.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 6/22/2011 12:57:02 AM   
Major SNAFU


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Osprey also published a book called Lorraine 1944 (part of the Campaign 75 series).  I have long thought it would be fun to play this in a game and thought about it for TOAW III but never committed to the editor to build it.




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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 7/14/2011 12:06:28 AM   
sburke1959

 

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You can pick up the whole WW2 Green book archive on disk from Paperless Archive for $99. They have very frequent sales of it as well, just get on their mailing list. It seems like they run the sale every other month from the amount of email I get.

I agree it isn't the same as having the books and more importantly maps where you can hold it in your hand, but it is a close second. Especially if you want to carry Normandy, the Bulge, Lorraine etc all with you when you travel.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 8/3/2011 5:38:45 PM   
simovitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sburke1959

...Especially if you want to carry Normandy, the Bulge, Lorraine etc all with you when you travel.

The green book hard copies do come in handy. Here is your's truly at the Ouren Bridge on the Our River with Cole' Bulge book in hand




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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 8/3/2011 7:26:46 PM   
johndoesecond


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quote:

e on the Our Riv


He, nice to see you studying for our enjoyments.

BTW, cool AFV.


< Message edited by johndoesecond -- 8/3/2011 8:38:57 PM >

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 8/3/2011 11:43:47 PM   
Arjuna


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Yes and I can tell you from personal experience that he drives it on the one hand like a rally car and on the other like it was armoured and he has nothing to fear.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 12/8/2013 3:06:25 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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This is a very interesting situation for several scenarios. How easy is the mapmaker to use?

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 12/8/2013 9:49:43 PM   
Arjuna


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It's easy enough but it does take time to develop the contours. So you need to be patient.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 12/9/2013 2:19:46 PM   
Major SNAFU


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I can second that. I took me a while to make a "ghost" of the map to load into the mapmaker but I am progressing slowly.

My struggle at the moment is trying to get the roads to join together nicely and look right.

Is there some some sort of attach point to a line function that I might be missing?



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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 12/9/2013 2:23:12 PM   
joeyeti


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Nope, everything must be "connected" by hand (i.e. overlap it nicely manually).

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/22/2014 12:09:41 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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Well finally aquired physical copies of the Lorraine campaign by Cole and the Siegfried Line campaign by McDonald. The maps look fantastic! Too bad this forum is on its last legs for CO.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/22/2014 1:28:30 PM   
Merv0728


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Is it my pc or what ? I can no longer get into www.history.army.mil/books !!!

Alan

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/22/2014 2:25:53 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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You are correct I get a 403 forbidden warning that I don't have access to view books on this site when I try and look it up.

Any comment on the Lorraine campaign by the way?

remember Prince EKKmul posted that link in 2010 some 4 years ago now. small wonder the link no longer works.

< Message edited by Tophat1812 -- 9/22/2014 3:28:01 PM >

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/22/2014 3:01:54 PM   
chemkid

 

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they reshuffled their Bookshelf - here's the new link:

http://www.history.army.mil/html/bookshelves/collect/usaww2.html

cheers!
chem!


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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/22/2014 7:24:19 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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Thanks for the link! Downloading Riviera to the Rhine..............

Sure wish we had a working 3-D terrain maker for command Ops.

< Message edited by Tophat1812 -- 9/22/2014 8:25:18 PM >

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/22/2014 10:42:28 PM   
jimcarravallah

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Thanks for the link! Downloading Riviera to the Rhine..............

Sure wish we had a working 3-D terrain maker for command Ops.


You have a 3-D Terrain maker, accomplished in the same manner as any other geographic information system (the mapping industry standard) representation which uses layer traces to represent heights (not too different from building a mutli-layered cake). Otherwise, all direct fire weapons would be able to hit any target within the firing unit's range, and all units would be visible on the map.

What you don't have in Command Ops is more than 15 altitude layers, and an engine which translates those layers into a virtual 3-D image.

Look at the MapMaker instructions and you'll discover the rather sophisticated method used to represent heights and terrain coverage, matching the digital mapping industry standards though with fewer options in layer definitions.

The limiting factor on all geographic representations is the computing power available on the systems interpreting the images. Thus the limit on the number of terrain layers (both coverage and altitude) for Command Ops to operate efficiently and relatively real time in a PC environment.

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RE: Green Book: The Lorraine Campaign - 9/24/2014 1:52:21 PM   
Tophat1812

 

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Ooops! Sorry I misspoke here I met a 3-D terrain viewer such as dazkaz15 is working on,not a 3-D terrain maker! Sorry Jim my mistake,thanks for correctly pointing things out.

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