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Long Lost Theater... - 9/22/2010 3:42:01 AM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
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Seems to me this is a long lost theater of war, hypothetical or otherwise. I remember boardgames like SPI's Firefight and West End's Tac Air ... or even the older computer game TacOps. TOAW gave it a treatment, but outside of that it seems to have been relegated to the what-if halls of history. Too bad, too, because it's probably one of the best studies of a war that never happened in the history of projected warfare.

I'm considering buying this game... ahead of buying WitP, which I think I'm going to wait on for when I get a new computer. How is it? Is the AI worth anything? Is it fairly detailed? How long is the game play? How about a library of user-created scenarios?

_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton
Post #: 1
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/22/2010 4:08:51 PM   
Nebogipfel


Posts: 104
Joined: 3/16/2010
Status: offline
Hi WriterJWA,

I would consider the cold war aera as one of the most exciting time periods too, especially for "what ifīs".

Back to your questions. The scale of the squares is 500m, so itīs much bigger as for example Steel Panthers
and doesnīt need as much micro-management.

On the other hand itīs far away from the scope of "operational" wargames. Although while playing, due to the radio range, order delay and the we-go system, you can get a bit  "operational" feeling.

There are many details like fatigue, trainings skill and so on, but it never goes into massive micro-managent. Itīs more important to set up a well considered battle plan and doctrin. To be clear, itīs a tactical combat game. So you have to look for LOS check, elevation and very important is a well placed arty/airstrike timing too.

Above all it can be played very fast paced. Itīs possible to conduct a battle in one evening, although the bigger ones need a bit longer. That doesnīt mean that the gameplay is braindead..........., I played different operational wargames and I canīt remember me planning as carefully an attack like I do in FG.

Is the AI good ?

Be sure that you have to restart some battles, because your plan didnīt work and the losses were too high.
The AI isnīt weak and isnīt capable of genious attacks. But due to the we-go system it isnīt so easy to exploit the system. Once you pressed the "Next Turn" button, the only thing you can do is pray, that your plot will work.
If you use your vehicles the wrong way ( for example long distant fights with T80 against M1 or Leo ), the desaster will be yours.

I like this game. Sometimes I get the feeling of playing a Tank-Sim (like M1 Tank-Platoon) on a bigger scale, without thinking of the whole micro management stuff and with a very well made UI.

The down-side is, there are only few maps to play. I donīt know if its possible to create new maps (perhaps with Photo-Shop). Due to this, there arenīt many custom scenīs made. The only oneīs I know are the red/blue stars and one or two here in this forum. I did a little one last week. Itīs quite simple to create new ones. There is a very smart editor.

If youīre gonna play every battle on both sides, you will have enough hours (100+ or so) of gameplay. And replay value is high, because there are allways different ways to approach and the AI isnīt doing the same things over and over again.

I hope this will help a bit.

Nebogipfel


< Message edited by Nebogipfel -- 9/22/2010 4:23:33 PM >

(in reply to WriterJWA)
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RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/22/2010 8:01:36 PM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
M-1 Tank Platoon....... wow! I forgot all about that one. I used to spend HOURS playing that game!

_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Nebogipfel)
Post #: 3
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/22/2010 8:11:38 PM   
Nebogipfel


Posts: 104
Joined: 3/16/2010
Status: offline
I have still my original disc and the big booklet 

(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 4
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/23/2010 3:02:42 PM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
Out of curiosity ... but do you remember an old SPI game NATO Division Commander?

_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Nebogipfel)
Post #: 5
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/23/2010 5:05:32 PM   
Nebogipfel


Posts: 104
Joined: 3/16/2010
Status: offline
Never heard about it.....but googled now.

Goes back to 80īs, if I get it right. Did you play it ?



(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 6
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/23/2010 10:01:07 PM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
It's one of the very first war games I ever tried.... and was waaaaaay too complicated for me then. It dealt with a lot of potential command challenges, EW, intelligence, unit posture and supply levels, that sort of thing. I game that simulates the role of a brigade/division/corps commander in this time period is what I'm ultimately looking for (campaign preferred). I think I'm going to buy FPG this evening.... hopefully it makes muster.

_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Nebogipfel)
Post #: 7
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/26/2010 10:06:24 AM   
teddy


Posts: 204
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Perth, Scotland.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA
I think I'm going to buy FPG this evening.... hopefully it makes muster.

Have you bought it yet, JWA?

(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 8
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/27/2010 3:29:50 PM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
I did. I bought it Thursday and have been playing through the V Corps scnearios. It took a little getting used to at first, but it's not all that unlike other games I've played, only this is clearly period specific. I'm a big fan of the way AT platoons work and their abilities. I've also been seeing some great results with Minelets ... both a harrassment tool and a early warning device. So far, I'm impressed. If I can apply "real-world" tactical principles to units in a game, and the results are as expected, then I think the programmers have done their job.

_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to teddy)
Post #: 9
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/27/2010 5:34:46 PM   
Nebogipfel


Posts: 104
Joined: 3/16/2010
Status: offline
Glad to hear. that youīre enjoying FG.    

Oh yeah the minelets................., very nice for defending and I assume, that some scenīs canīt be won without them.

Nebogipfel

(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 10
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/27/2010 7:53:51 PM   
teddy


Posts: 204
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Perth, Scotland.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA
I did. I bought it Thursday

That's great, JWA! I'm getting used to it again after buying it over a year ago and laying it aside so I'm kinda new to it but this time I'm gonna stick with it as it's a nice game and a very interesting era.

(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 11
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/27/2010 8:42:30 PM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
Thanks! You'll find the Soviet AI is persistent and that West German forces are only about as useful as a narrow speedbump (at least in the one scenario I played with them involved .... Soviet Main Force Attack in the V Corps scenarios).

_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to teddy)
Post #: 12
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/28/2010 6:44:05 AM   
MikeBrough


Posts: 234
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA

Out of curiosity ... but do you remember an old SPI game NATO Division Commander?


Yes, I remember it. Owned it, read the rules for a week beforehand, broke out the pieces, sat down to play it with my brother and gave up after a couple of hours. Too complicated for this human: needed computers.

The booklets that went with it were great fun, too. They were really detailed and an evening's perusal could fuel your militarty fantasies for days!

_____________________________

Mike Brough
Proud to be an Arab

Be sceptical of the things you believe are false; be very sceptical of the things you believe are true.

(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 13
RE: Long Lost Theater... - 9/28/2010 1:59:49 PM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
If I knew I could pick one up for low cost, I might do it for a little nostalgia, but it seems everytime I look they're going for $100+. No way!

_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to MikeBrough)
Post #: 14
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