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Rearming Mines and Withdrawal

 
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Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/17/2010 3:23:47 PM   
bjmorgan


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I have a CM headed back to a major port for withdrawal. It is a CM so I decided to dump it's mines in a port hex that gets raided by enemy shore bombardment now and then. It's capacity is 150 mines and there are 80 left in the pool.

How can I get it to port to withdraw it and make sure it doesn't load up with the 80 mines in the pool?

I assume I just get it there, make sure it's set to "no refuel" and disband it? I notice that my surface ships seem to rearm anytime they even smell a port large enough and with enough supply to do the job, so I worry about my CM sucking up the remaining mines on its way to becoming a reef in the Atlantic or Med.
Post #: 1
RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/17/2010 3:30:59 PM   
Djordje

 

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Well, for one make sure not to replenish it manually. After that, my best guess would be to set its mission to something unrelated to mine warfare, and set TF to autodisband as soon as it reaches port. Note that I've had my ACMs take mines even though they were in escort TF when I've manually clicked replenish from port so... Good luck 

(in reply to bjmorgan)
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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/17/2010 4:05:08 PM   
The Gnome


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I would NOT set it to auto-disband. The auto-disband routine will refuel and rearm, and while I'm not 100% sure it will rearm mines that way, it just seems risky.

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/17/2010 4:12:25 PM   
bjmorgan


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From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
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Yeah, I kinda thought that, too. Only work till noon today, so by 5pm I'll know what happens with my process.

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/17/2010 5:34:11 PM   
Djordje

 

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Sometimes TF will just disband without replenishing, depending on when TF arrives to port during turn execution. When I look at my ports usually 75% of the ships don't have 100% fuel which is a little problem on its own for me as I don't remember ship names and classes, only their endurance.

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/21/2010 1:23:16 PM   
bjmorgan


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Well, here's the answer. It refills when it smells a large port. Dang it! 80 mines to the Atlantic theatre. What a waste.

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/21/2010 4:17:57 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Well, here's the answer. It refills when it smells a large port. Dang it! 80 mines to the Atlantic theatre. What a waste.


Don't know if it would have prevented refill, but a tip posted here recently has helped me a few times. The Escort TF type allows you to mix & match lots of ships that wouldn't appear as select options with a specific TF type named. I sometimes use it to move gaggles of support, escort, AK, carriers, etc. to a forward port, as from the Canal Zone to PH. Saves forming several small TFs. Maybe putting a mine-layer into a new Escort TF would prevent it from sucking down the mine pool if it stops being a mine-layer as far as the TF type goes.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/21/2010 4:18:21 PM >


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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/21/2010 5:08:46 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Well, here's the answer. It refills when it smells a large port. Dang it! 80 mines to the Atlantic theatre. What a waste.


Don't know if it would have prevented refill, but a tip posted here recently has helped me a few times. The Escort TF type allows you to mix & match lots of ships that wouldn't appear as select options with a specific TF type named. I sometimes use it to move gaggles of support, escort, AK, carriers, etc. to a forward port, as from the Canal Zone to PH. Saves forming several small TFs. Maybe putting a mine-layer into a new Escort TF would prevent it from sucking down the mine pool if it stops being a mine-layer as far as the TF type goes.



Ah, seeing that you claim to be a picture person and not a word person you might have missed this distinction.

Escort TF allows for damaged ships to limp away from potential combat, usually created automatically following combat.
Support TF allows for the lumping together into a single TF of all those auxiliary vessels so that they can be moved from a rear area base to another rear area base.

Not saying you are wrong, simply you might find it convenient to adopt this pattern for easier visual identification (an Escort TF has an uppercase "E" displayed on the map)

Alfred

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 8
RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/21/2010 5:23:39 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Well, here's the answer. It refills when it smells a large port. Dang it! 80 mines to the Atlantic theatre. What a waste.


Don't know if it would have prevented refill, but a tip posted here recently has helped me a few times. The Escort TF type allows you to mix & match lots of ships that wouldn't appear as select options with a specific TF type named. I sometimes use it to move gaggles of support, escort, AK, carriers, etc. to a forward port, as from the Canal Zone to PH. Saves forming several small TFs. Maybe putting a mine-layer into a new Escort TF would prevent it from sucking down the mine pool if it stops being a mine-layer as far as the TF type goes.



Ah, seeing that you claim to be a picture person and not a word person you might have missed this distinction.

Escort TF allows for damaged ships to limp away from potential combat, usually created automatically following combat.
Support TF allows for the lumping together into a single TF of all those auxiliary vessels so that they can be moved from a rear area base to another rear area base.

Not saying you are wrong, simply you might find it convenient to adopt this pattern for easier visual identification (an Escort TF has an uppercase "E" displayed on the map)

Alfred


No, I know about Support TFs. My experience with Escort, however, is you can throw in ANY ship type into the mash and move it all at once. Including carriers and cruisers, and, I think but haven't tested, subs.

Formerly I only encountered the Escort type post-combat when damaged ships were limping away. The code auto-changed to that type and assigned an escort DD or similar to help the damaged big boy get away, and slapped on that big E as you describe. But you can proactively create Escort TFs in a port and use them to lump together ship types that wouldn't be offered as options under a specific Tf mission type. For example, Support TFs only offer up the support auxiliaries, AKs, TKs, DDs, DEs, APDs, etc. They don't offer up carriers or cruisers. Escort TF does.

Just a work around for the lazy, or, maybe, for mine-layers which shouldn't reload. That part I'm unsure of. Just as I'm unsure of whether a mashed-up Escort TF I create will conduct ASW ops if attacked. I only use them where I'm pretty sure the AI will leave them alone. I haven't had one attacked yet.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 9/21/2010 5:24:34 PM >


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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/21/2010 6:22:54 PM   
Djordje

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Well, here's the answer. It refills when it smells a large port. Dang it! 80 mines to the Atlantic theatre. What a waste.


Don't know if it would have prevented refill, but a tip posted here recently has helped me a few times. The Escort TF type allows you to mix & match lots of ships that wouldn't appear as select options with a specific TF type named. I sometimes use it to move gaggles of support, escort, AK, carriers, etc. to a forward port, as from the Canal Zone to PH. Saves forming several small TFs. Maybe putting a mine-layer into a new Escort TF would prevent it from sucking down the mine pool if it stops being a mine-layer as far as the TF type goes.



Ah, seeing that you claim to be a picture person and not a word person you might have missed this distinction.

Escort TF allows for damaged ships to limp away from potential combat, usually created automatically following combat.
Support TF allows for the lumping together into a single TF of all those auxiliary vessels so that they can be moved from a rear area base to another rear area base.

Not saying you are wrong, simply you might find it convenient to adopt this pattern for easier visual identification (an Escort TF has an uppercase "E" displayed on the map)

Alfred


No, I know about Support TFs. My experience with Escort, however, is you can throw in ANY ship type into the mash and move it all at once. Including carriers and cruisers, and, I think but haven't tested, subs.

Formerly I only encountered the Escort type post-combat when damaged ships were limping away. The code auto-changed to that type and assigned an escort DD or similar to help the damaged big boy get away, and slapped on that big E as you describe. But you can proactively create Escort TFs in a port and use them to lump together ship types that wouldn't be offered as options under a specific Tf mission type. For example, Support TFs only offer up the support auxiliaries, AKs, TKs, DDs, DEs, APDs, etc. They don't offer up carriers or cruisers. Escort TF does.

Just a work around for the lazy, or, maybe, for mine-layers which shouldn't reload. That part I'm unsure of. Just as I'm unsure of whether a mashed-up Escort TF I create will conduct ASW ops if attacked. I only use them where I'm pretty sure the AI will leave them alone. I haven't had one attacked yet.


I also use escort TF to move all sorts of ships together. When you put in different types that can't possibly go together in any other TF mission it stays escort (for example BB + TK + AMc+ whatever). But, if you put single ship in escort TF it will automatically be changed to its "natural" mission, thus making what Bulwinkle58 suggested impossible. All my ACMs take mines even though I've put created them as single escort TFs because they change to minelaying TF.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 10
RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/21/2010 7:13:04 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Djordje

I also use escort TF to move all sorts of ships together. When you put in different types that can't possibly go together in any other TF mission it stays escort (for example BB + TK + AMc+ whatever). But, if you put single ship in escort TF it will automatically be changed to its "natural" mission, thus making what Bulwinkle58 suggested impossible. All my ACMs take mines even though I've put created them as single escort TFs because they change to minelaying TF.


Ah, good to know.

So, maybe, the OP's problem could be solved by creating an Escort TF with his withdrawing mine-layer, plus one more garbage ship of any type? That way it woudl stay an Escort and not suck in mines?

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/21/2010 8:39:16 PM   
witpqs

 

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I forget what, but some types won't go into a support TF. Escort can take anything as you say, but there is a catch. The purpose of escort is to escort badly damaged ships, and it will not split apart to form more escort TF's if attacked. If you have a nice, fast escort TF moving through an area and one ships gets damage that slows it down then all will remain in harms way at the slower movement rate. Usually doesn't matter but if you are transiting somewhere risky it might.

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Post #: 12
RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/22/2010 4:19:12 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I forget what, but some types won't go into a support TF. Escort can take anything as you say, but there is a catch. The purpose of escort is to escort badly damaged ships, and it will not split apart to form more escort TF's if attacked. If you have a nice, fast escort TF moving through an area and one ships gets damage that slows it down then all will remain in harms way at the slower movement rate. Usually doesn't matter but if you are transiting somewhere risky it might.


I didn't know it wouldn't re-split. Part of the problem with operating on the frontier of the rules.

I've only used Escort to vacuum up a gaggle at the Canal going to PH, and once from CT to Perth. No real advantage except saving mouse work.

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/22/2010 5:33:21 AM   
witpqs

 

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From: Argleton
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The first purpose of an Escort type TF is ""DD's, escort that damaged carrier (or whatever) back home safely!" They have to suppress the split logic to allow you to have more than one escort (which you might want in some cases).

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/22/2010 6:30:38 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The first purpose of an Escort type TF is ""DD's, escort that damaged carrier (or whatever) back home safely!" They have to suppress the split logic to allow you to have more than one escort (which you might want in some cases).


You are correct that one purpose of an escort TF is to escort damaged ships, but the manual describes escort TFs as being "general purpose". The ability to "move ships between bases" seems to be a design feature rather than simply a byproduct of the damaged ship logic. (I assume by "move ships between bases" they are referring to things like moving short legged PTs as part of a larger TF, although that's only an assumption)

From 6.1.1.1
Escort. These are general purpose “ship movement” TFs. They are used to evacuate damaged ships from the battle area, and to move ships between bases.

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RE: Rearming Mines and Withdrawal - 9/23/2010 10:21:42 AM   
Offworlder

 

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If you don't want a minelayer to reload, turn it into a transport/fast transport TF. Most CMs would have that option and they don't reload when in transport mode. Also some minelayers like the British Abidiel do make efficient fast transports, sometimes sneaking units from under the nose of the Japanese or supplying a base rather quickly.

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