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Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :)

 
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Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 8/31/2010 5:17:41 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Hi,

I decied to get BftB and Im playing it daily
Dont have any game (Cota?) from this "series" so im a rookie at BftB at best.
I played Hofen as Axis couple of gazillion times and its a no win for German forces. Is it just me or this scenarion cant be won playing as Axis?

232'nd try small AAR.
---------------------------

Startup positions and decisions:

I. 752 Reg with attached 326 Fusilier Coy moves south into position and rests for the remainder of day 1.

753 Reg rests trough day 1.
751 Reg rests trough day 1.

II. 1/653 PzJag Coy moves into position and waits for stugs 2/326 Coy.

III. II bn/751 Reg arrives on day 1 around 19-20h and moves south during night into position south of Kalterherberg.

Day two comes...

IV. Attack begins, 752 Reg is issued attack order with max ROF, extra ammo supply. They will attack from south of Alzen.

V. II bn/751 Reg is issued attack order on Kalter, standard orders.

VI. 751 & 753 are issued probe attacks on Hofen south objective with max ROF, extra ammo.

Day three...

VII. II bn/753 Reg will attack Monschau, regular attack order max ROF, extra ammo.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe
Post #: 1
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 8/31/2010 5:42:35 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Outcome:

As you allready noticed I did nothing on day 1 except move and rest my troops.

"Fun" started on day 2...

I tried to coordinate attack on Hofen south as much as I could, it turned up pretty good except for the loss of 2/326 Stug Coy right at the begining of the action. For some reason they really STEAMED towards town and got eaten up in NO TIME. I played many rounds of this and other scenarions and never seen a unit burn THAT quick. As if they got nuked :/

751&753 Reg actualy arrived at firing positions synched with 1/653 PzJag Coy and i think this was a deciding factor in the fact that they captured Hofen south while being issued Probe attack command. I tought they will pull out. I tought they would be a distraction while 752 Reg tries to take Alzen and creates a foothold in it. It would provide a south attack direction later with 751&753 from the East and II bn/751 Reg would attack from the West. Of course II bn/751 Reg was way to depleted to do anything and Hofen south was captured so i abandoned any further attacks as I had nothing useful to attack with :/

II bn/751 after taking Kalter with "ease and small casulties" are ordered to defend it. God knows they needed rest. I think if a HQ unit attacked them they would have abandoned the town after taking it :/

Massive ammounts of bombardment i poured on allies prevented them to retake anything, even tough I never got the points for Kalter probably because I didnt have enough troops in the objective circle?

After II bn/753 Reg arrived they were ordered to go for Monschau, either to take it or draw some units from Hofen South and Kalter Objectives. Even tough there was only 1 unit in Monschau German troops in this scenario are just so weak that even massive bombardment of that unit didnt help them to secure the town :(

So am I so "weak" :) or this scenarion is just not winable for Axis side?

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 2
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 8/31/2010 5:43:47 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Forgot end pic:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 3
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 8/31/2010 5:48:36 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Model was not pleased with the results :






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 4
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 8/31/2010 7:14:04 PM   
simovitch


Posts: 3898
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		Streptokok,

Try the scenario again with the mindset that it's not only about securing the objectives but how quickly you can secure or contest them.

The Germans were on an extremely tight time schedule here, you dont have the luxery of starting your main offensive on Day 2.

_____________________________

simovitch


(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 5
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/1/2010 3:37:14 AM   
simovitch


Posts: 3898
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		I just got the US to offer surrender on the morning of the 3rd day:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

simovitch


(in reply to simovitch)
Post #: 6
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/1/2010 3:58:59 AM   
simovitch


Posts: 3898
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		Here's my end pic and some tips:
1. Never let up on attacking the US defenders. Don't let your guys rest - until they can barely stand up anymore.

2. Keep an eye on your artillery supply. Each morning they should be somewhat replenished and ready for fire missions. Concentrate your bombardments using regiment/division/corps HQ's.

3. Use your AG's as mobile direct-fire artillery. Use range to your advantage and don't wander into towns or woods when you know the enemy is about or they will get picked off or bale out (surrender)quickly.

4. Review your Victory objectives. A fair amount of your points are awarded based on how long you occupy the key locations. You don't need to occupy Monschau or Kalterherberg until the very end. Your opponents objectives usually (but not always) mirror yours to some extent.

5. When an area around an objective is secure move in your Regimental HQ to occupy the area and free up your line units. Uncheck basing so that the regimental HW support units also follow the HQ for added protection. You may want to leave the supply base back detached with it's own defend order.

good luck!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by simovitch -- 9/1/2010 4:09:06 AM >

_____________________________

simovitch


(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 7
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/1/2010 8:30:35 AM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Hi,

nice to see you managed to get a win, so far I havent managed to do that.
Guess im still too newbish

Couple of things still needs answering if u have the time:

1. Do you issue attack order with Bn or Reg HQ?
2. If i deatach base unit the rest still gets supplies from it?
3. If I order manual bombard from Div HQ, after they are done they go into rest mode and seem to never switch to "on call" support so they basicly just sit there until I manualy order another bombardment. How do I force them back to "on call?
4. When ever I tried East aproach attack to Hofen on start of scenario I usualy end up with half of units surrender on first day and might as well surrender coz im left with no line units to attack with. Where do you attack from?
5. I noticed at the end that Bn that entered Monschau had "full" stock of Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks and were well in range of allied 5xStuart unit in town but never fired anything into them. Tanks in the forest or town are suposed to get squashed when facing ~300 infantry with 31 panzerfausts and panzerschrecks. Specialy when tanks have no infantry support of their own? Is this a bug or completely bad luck?
6. Is there a way I can "make" them use Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks? I just cant imagine that there isnt a single soldier in whole Bn that doesnt come up with the idea "Hey! we have Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks, lets bbq them."
7. There should be a penalty for tanks in towns/forests and double penalty if they have no inf support
8. Inf gun coy allways deploys too far to use its AT ordnance and rarely ever do direct fire attack. 4x 75mm guns firing only bombard missions arent really THAT helpful, knocking down light tanks would be nice too :)
9. Where do you attach 1/653 PzJag Coy & 2/326 Stug Coy, if you attach them anywhere. Or just use it solo?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to simovitch)
Post #: 8
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/1/2010 3:34:19 PM   
simovitch


Posts: 3898
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Streptokok

1. Do you issue attack order with Bn or Reg HQ?

Usually Bn.
quote:

2. If i deatach base unit the rest still gets supplies from it?

Yes.
quote:

3. If I order manual bombard from Div HQ, after they are done they go into rest mode and seem to never switch to "on call" support so they basicly just sit there until I manualy order another bombardment. How do I force them back to "on call?

Under 'Options' if you have 'rest after bombard' checked, uncheck it.
quote:

4. When ever I tried East aproach attack to Hofen on start of scenario I usualy end up with half of units surrender on first day and might as well surrender coz im left with no line units to attack with. Where do you attack from?

I used a left hook with 2 Bn's swinging (quickest along roads) to the south of Hofen and 1 Bn went for Hofen South and the other fought northward through the town toward Hofen North. The 1st reinforcement group went to help out at Hofen North. Meanwhile I invested Monschau with another Bn to keep the Stuarts busy.
quote:

5. I noticed at the end that Bn that entered Monschau had "full" stock of Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks and were well in range of allied 5xStuart unit in town but never fired anything into them. Tanks in the forest or town are suposed to get squashed when facing ~300 infantry with 31 panzerfausts and panzerschrecks. Specialy when tanks have no infantry support of their own? Is this a bug or completely bad luck?

My guys had most of their fausts and schrecks fired off at the end but still had only knocked out about 5 Stuarts. The M5's have a high 'recon' value which seems to keep them out of trouble, but still the effective range of the fausts are only about 150m. They are a defensive weapon that requires skill and ambush wherein untrained volksgrenadiers on the attack have obvious limitations here.
quote:

6. Is there a way I can "make" them use Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks? I just cant imagine that there isnt a single soldier in whole Bn that doesnt come up with the idea "Hey! we have Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks, lets bbq them."

You can't make them do it, but you can set up a situation conducive to using them. i.e. ambush.
quote:

7. There should be a penalty for tanks in towns/forests and double penalty if they have no inf support

Towns and woods and night give you some ambush opportunities. I don't think we need to add an artificial modifier for it. I'm going to investigate the recon factor though.
quote:

8. Inf gun coy allways deploys too far to use its AT ordnance and rarely ever do direct fire attack. 4x 75mm guns firing only bombard missions arent really THAT helpful, knocking down light tanks would be nice too :)

Your staff are performing SOP for the IG's as indirect HE fire. You need to tell your staff to move it forward as an AT screen. (i.e. move it yourself)
quote:

9. Where do you attach 1/653 PzJag Coy & 2/326 Stug Coy, if you attach them anywhere. Or just use it solo?

In this scenario I use them independantly, or solo. I learned the hard way not to use them arcade style, but hold them back using good terrain with good fields of fire.

_____________________________

simovitch


(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 9
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/1/2010 6:58:59 PM   
tukker

 

Posts: 566
Joined: 3/4/2004
From: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

nice to see you managed to get a win, so far I havent managed to do that.
Guess im still too newbish


The fact that Richard designed the bugger may have helped him somewhat

Pieter

(in reply to simovitch)
Post #: 10
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/3/2010 1:56:05 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Thx for help im doing much better in my new game of Hofen

But I still have some problems.
Im using 1/653 PzJag Coy & 2/326 Stug Coy much better now, they are real troublemakers now
Even tough that Stug coy really wrecked some havoc among allies after a couple of succesful attacks I got a message that an assault by 2/326 Stug Coy on one mortar or gun unit has failed. Wouldnt be strange except that allied unit was allready retreating and stugs were trying to finish them off, suddenly they stop and Im all confused
I found that they ran out of HE ammo for 75mm guns and II bn/751 Reg (first reinforcement Bn) was also low on supplies so I clicked on Dep tab and there you can see "Supplying base - No Supplying Base -".
I tried number of things to attach them to something with a supply base but no luck, units wont draw supplies from anywhere. How do I fix this?

PS. Will all my reinforcements be in the same trouble? Will a save/load game after reinforcements arrive fix this?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Streptokok -- 9/3/2010 1:58:06 PM >

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to tukker)
Post #: 11
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/3/2010 4:04:58 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Somebody help! Im down to fuel fumes and bread crums






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 12
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/3/2010 4:20:11 PM   
simovitch


Posts: 3898
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline 		If a reinforcement comes on the board, it won't attach to a supply base until the first resupply event, which is normally 18:00 and 06:00. I think the Germans are on restricted supply so they only get one supply event at 06:00.

You will just have to wait for it.

_____________________________

simovitch


(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 13
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/3/2010 4:24:22 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		Nail chewing is over, ammo arrived just in time






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to simovitch)
Post #: 14
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 9/3/2010 5:10:41 PM   
Streptokok

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/30/2009
Status: offline 		I WIN!

I svear that supply arrived just in time, 3 minutes after resupply those stugs were firing like crazy onto allied units trying to retake Hofen south objective; in few minutes game-time they were down to 130 rounds. On the oposite JagdTigers ran out of HE ammo 3 minutes after stugs got resuplied, for some reason they didnt get any aditional HE rounds even they were low. They both had "target-rich enviroment" at the end
At one point I dragged one of those Inf gun coy next to stugs to provide some 75mm HE fire since stugs still had some AP rounds... this worked too.

Point of it this "AAR"? Well this game just became more interesting that it was when I only clicked onto DivisonHQ and sent it whole to attack one of the objectives and watch it all unroll into a certain defeat
It seems alot more micro managing is neded, I still like this more than have DivHQ commander doing all the work
Even tough its cool you can command higher ranking HQ's to do a certain task I dont recomend it unless they have really good commanding abilities. What seems to be working better for me, in this scenario at least, is to attack with Bn's and group support (Inf gun coys and mortars) with RegHQ and keep them close to the action. How close is actualy the question, for some reason (maybe im wrong?) it seems that Inf gun coys do work better closer to the front specialy if u expect them to use their AT rounds (range max is 1km i think?).

Im still a noob (but learning fast I hope) so I used 1/653 PzJag Coy & 2/326 Stug Coy to plug holes that opened during combat and to keep allies from reinforcing from a distance. I find it a very interesting game when a unit of 3 JagdTigers and 6 Stugs can make a difference, those Recon units only came once this time to bother me with their Stuarts

I also didint use attack option on 1/653 PzJag Coy & 2/326 Stug Coy at all, Move to with checked Attacks works literaly 10x better.

Unchecking Rest after bombardment was a revolution for me Artilery was a killer this time.
Imho this is a big fail for interface designers, I never saw that option after issuing bombard commad because its not on the Bombard command tab where everything else is, this small check box is under Options tab

Anyway thx for help! Im gonna play a new one now...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No plan survives contact with the enemy."
- Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke

"Nuts!"
- General Anthony McAuliffe

(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 15
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 6/28/2011 4:58:10 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		With the stock scenario, and normal options, painful delays:

Marginal victory, 74:34. Hit Hofen N from the North and East, blocking the MSR with the le IG of the northern Rgt. Screening northern flank with Rgt HQ and Fus Coy. Hit the junction of Hofen S, Hofen N with the remaining Bn. Divisional Artillery moved to MSR and Forest tracks to support by fire.

Didn't take the objectives early - both were contested immediately and then held against building counter-attacks of armour and support elements. Defending infantry and heavy AT batteries in the northern sector surrendered easily.

Reinforcements arriving at night of D1 hit the south of Hofen, ejecting the remaining company of troops, and leaving some armoured cars, light tanks, assault guns and one platoon of light A/T guns. The Stug arrived early on D2, and Hofen S was controlled by the time they were in the area. They assisted clearing the light armour, with the Fk40 light guns as a DF battery in support. Artillery moved forwards to the ridge north of Monschau, and into Hofen, the support troops consolidated and rested, with the second echelon of 751 heading to Kalterherberg - found to be occupied by an A/C coy.

A probe by the 326 Fus found the approach road to the north occupied, so they withdrew to the Fortification line, and then displaced south and occupied the north of Monschau.
The arriving final Bn of 753 Rgt was sent to bypass the roadblocks on the East edge of Mutzenich and then fall on the Supply Dump and junction from the woods, while I/752 attacked down from Hofen into Monschau, meeting the 326 Fus and destroying another A/C coy.

Hofen N was threatened by an attack by an SP battalion of artillery. Despite having the FK Bn dug in with open sights, and concentrating about 85-90% of the remaining artillery onto this unit, it wasn't materially damaged in 12 hours of attacks by infantry and artillery, but it was retreated and prevented from contesting the village. 100 casualties and 2 guns, by my rough estimation, and morale still silly-high.

Mutzenich wasn't seriously contested - he had three armoured units, and I had nothing capable of killing them, yet he lacked the will and strength to eject my troops from the buildings.

Kalterherberg got more concentration of resources. One Bn of Divisional guns, and the Stugs were pushed forward to support the infantry with A/T fires and after some close fighting the VG drove the vehicles out of the village.

Casualties: 1804/198 PersQ, 54/0 AFVs, 24/8 Guns (mostly mortars/ATG/IG), 13 Surrenders, 3 Disbandments by Allied forces.

There is definitely something odd about the way that 'resting' troops can build morale to the point they are unstoppable - especially since high morale units tend to be fairly resistant to morale loss, as well as having more to use.

(in reply to Streptokok)
Post #: 16
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 6/28/2011 7:52:50 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for that, Lieste. Very interesting, as are all the other reports in this thread. I must be doing something wrong, clearly. I wonder if it's basics. What speed do you usually play at, Lieste? I imagine someone with your experience must have it on fastest al the time, then pause to examine? No? I think I play it on fastest too much. Doesn't leave time for proper assesment and micro-management. It seems to me I might be getting the level of micro-management wrong. I'm usually commanding at a Regimental level - in this scenario, anyway, where the German Regiments only have a battallion each, roughly. Should I be commanding at battallion level, do you think? I mean generally. How long did it take you to play through the scenario, Lieste, roughly?

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 17
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 6/28/2011 2:49:22 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		No, slow all the time, but no pausing (browse while I wait - well, ok, minimal pausing as some commands need paused mode to 'take'). Sometimes I push it to fastest during the night.

I run a Bn sized group as my basic formation, - So a Rgt of 2 Bn ans HQ would be three elements. I make a 'good plan' and then try to stick to it, rather than fiddling - but I shape the battlefield with artillery and using cover and concealment.

The enemy will often only 'score' if he has uncontested control, as do you - so although you score more for securing one objective early, you might be 'better off' ensuring you get bodies on all, and then holding until you can drive off the enemy - in this scenario he is very short of infantry so is fairly easy to push around, but has a lot of armour that you'll find difficult to deal with too. I could have denied Monschau a bit earlier I think, but wanted to probe in the north too and had no spare troops if Monschau was contested in force.

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 18
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 6/30/2011 11:08:52 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Well, I managed a 73/23 marginal victory, though I'm not really sure what made the diff. Had a long run of draws before that. Was thinking then that i would really need to micro-manage the arty, but I didn't do any of that this time. I ran it at fastest speed all the way (because I was originaly just testing an idea) and left all the arty to the AI. I concentrated the 2 regiments that start south of the Roer on Hofen south. They took it fairly quickly. I sent the regiment that starts north of the Roer a long way around the back, up north, through the woods, to come out behind Muntzenich. Eventually they took it like that. Maybe the route was a surprise. The reinforcements attacked Hofen north and Monschau. I was left holding Muntz, Hof nth and sth at the end. Thanks for all the advice Lieste. Everything was helpful. I think you're right that it's really important to try to deny him as early as poss, even if you have to retreat, because at the end of the day it's the diff in victory points, between you and him, that counts, and if you deny him victory locations you're going to stop his points. I gave no attack orders. It was all movement, with the attack box ticked.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 19
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 6/30/2011 11:33:20 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Sounds good. Btw do you recall the German casualty figure? I usually place a fairly high 'personal' score on keeping my own losses as low as possible, on the grounds that this would allow a follow-on operation to be possible/more successful - particularly important where line troop strength is so poor. I took 196 casualties overall, and was starting to feel a reduction in combat power increase in brittleness of the worst affected units.

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 20
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 7/1/2011 9:10:19 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Says 1216 allied dead, 253 axis. I didn't notice that effecting things (but remember, this battle took about fifteen minutes to run through because it was full speed all the way, on the assumption I just wanted to see what sending a regiment round the back of Muntz would do, not expecting success at all). But they're all so tired at the end that it feels very difficult to get them to do anything. They're very sluggish by day 2 even. One of the most frustrating things is, I find, where you give orders and they just sit around not moving (even though the info tab shows them as 'moving') - for hours and hours, I mean, not just the orders delay delay. I hadn't ever thought of this as a game problem, but something presumably that added realism, a function of them being exhausted.

It made a big difference to issue commands to the battallion level, I've found. Much better response, though it leaves regimental HQs sitting around wiht not much to do (though sometime they might have some arty attached). Also, I did use the fusiliers to do some probing around the northern sector and Monshau, and did try to block supply roads with a few units, as you suggested. When I ran this battle again, with the same general tactics (send a regiment round the back of Muntz), at normal speed, taking much more care, BUT, giving all the orders to the Regimental level mainly, and not bothering using the fusiliers to faint or placing units in blocking positions, then I only got a draw again. Commanding the regiment to go up north through the woods round the back of MUntz (as opposed to the battallion, as I had previously), led to it being stuck in the woods, exhausted, for over half a day!! So maybe all these fine tuning things really do make a difference, which would be another great tribute to how well this game works. Of course, next time round the AI might just have done something completely diff. Which is another great things about the game - no scripting.


It's a totally engrossing game, once you get the hang of what it's about. I think it's simply unbelievable that there is nothing else like it, that nearly all the development in the area of games has been put into graphics and the AI side - which is the heart of everything great about this game - has been left untouched, largely. You know of any other game where the AI is so developed? I have enjoyed playing Combat Mission, for example (in all its iterations), but it doesn't have the same complexity of problem solving interest that BFTB has. After a while I get really bored clicking those little sprites around, partly because they never do anything of their own accord, so it feels like it's only half the game it could be if it had a proper command structure built into the AI. Just my view.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 21
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 7/1/2011 9:52:59 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		I find I much prefer to plan/execute/evaluate a simple scenario in COTA or BfTB than fiddle with thousands of counter-turns and arbritary hex boundaries in any other ops/plan wargame that I've tried.

What is great about the series, is that if you apply a real world tactical plan, then the action will run roughly as it would in RL (bugs and features not withstanding ;) ). The finer than unit sized 'grid', reasonable representation of a 3d world, and continuous 'mutual' actions eliminate a lot of the unreal-ness of typical hex-based games. Plus not having to pick up every damned counter, each and every turn :)

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 22
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 7/1/2011 10:49:10 AM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 974
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Lieste,

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

This morning I got a decisive victory on Hofen!! Same plan as previous - send 1.752 round the back of Muntz, ordered as a battalion, using cover. They rested half way through day 1, in the woods north of Muntz, then attacked and took during the night (all determined by the AI, not me). Went for Hofen nth with the two regiments south of the Roer. As you suggested I used an IG unit, plus the spare Reg HQ to block the road form Monschau. This proved crucial, I think. In fact, I think this - so early on - with nothing obvious to show for it - was the turning point of the battle, the most crucial decision - block the roads from Monschau. From the other side of the Roer I fainted at Monschau with the fusiliers and the spare reg HQ for the 1.752. They managed to get in and hold it, were driven out to no avail, but meanwhile many of his units en route to Hofen were held up. When reinforcements south of Roer arrived, sent them to Hofen sth. No attack commands. All movement with attack checked. Once each KG was in its objective I changed the orders to defend and gradually widened the perimeter. Now, by 6pm day 2, he was denied all 4 major objectives. Sent the Stugs to help clear Hofen sth, plus an infantry company from the now cleared Hofen nth objective. Ignored Kalterhenburg. Finally, sent the last reinforcements nth of Roer to take Monschau. I held no objectives at the start of day 3, but he was denied all 4 major ones. All of day 3 I just watched the arty - controlled by the AI, not me - clear all opposition from all objectives. I didn't give a single order during day 3. The arty just responded to AI calls and blasted him out. Amazing show by the AI, I think.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this experience. I've played this scenario intensively now - perhaps 40 times, though often just trying out different strategies on full speed. It was a very rewarding process to go from being completely unable to do better than a marginal defeat, to drag it to a draw, and finally to find a plan I could work and get a decisive victory with. I didn't have to do any manual control of arty, though I'm sure that would help. Your advice to use units to block reinfoircements was crucial. I'm absolutely sure of that. So I'm also sure your advice to manually use the arty to 'shape the battlefield' is also sound. The fine tuning is certainly the difference between being unable to get past a draw to pulling off a decisive victory. Amazing game.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 23
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 7/24/2011 9:18:42 PM   
Skyhigh

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Hi,

I just did a quick Hofen Ho-down with the tactic as described above - I sent the I.752 on the Northern bypass to end up behind Mutzenich, the I.753 first North of Hofen (towards the tracks heading into Hofen) and then South - and the I.751 to attack Hofen North from the East.
As for the reinforcements, indeed, the II.751 could be put to perfect use by attacking Hofen South, and I had to use the II.753 to assist the I.752 to take Mutzenich, which happened on the morning of Day 3.

The II.326 were of little use as somehow they surrendered while travelling throuh Hofen...

During the battles for Mutzenich and Hofen, Monschau was abandoned so I sent the 326 Fusilliers to occupy it, which was enough.

Scenario ended when I just ordered the battalions in Hofen to move on Kalterherberg.

All orders were Move orders, High Aggro with Attacks - except for the swing north of Mutzenich, this was done on Low Aggro.

At the end, I held Mutzenich, Hofen North and South and Monschau, ending up with a Decisive Victory, 1376 kills vs. 438.

< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 7/24/2011 9:22:34 PM >

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 24
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 7/25/2011 7:02:58 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Yup, feels good when it comes together doesn't it? ... and then your troops can sit in foxholes, plinking at him while he struggles through the snow and/or mud... feels much better that way round :)

(in reply to Skyhigh)
Post #: 25
RE: Rookie Hofen Show-Down mini AAR and a question :) - 7/25/2011 7:28:43 AM   
Skyhigh

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Yeah - it goes to prove that planning (and timing) is most important of all.
I find myself printing maps, studying the OOBs, indicating the dispositions and reinforcements on the map, then drawing my plans on the maps, before even hitting the play button :)

Hofen, Elsenborne done - Losheimer Gap, here I come! :)

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 26
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