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The Prince part 2 ( Chickenboy welcome!)

 
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The Prince part 2 ( Chickenboy welcome!) - 8/19/2010 6:56:39 PM   
AW1Steve


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In my previous "The Prince" edition (referring to Machiavelli, not some pinhead pop star hiding as a font, thank you very much) I asked about Sir Robin and was it still a viable strategy). Since I couldn't start an ARR when started our PBEM, and It's too late now (who'd be interested in a ARR that's already a month into the game?) I was hoping to ask a few general strategic questions of those of you "masters" who might be willing to advise a humble student.

Chickenboy decided to use a Manila 1st gambit, negating the PH strike. I'm sure that his ARR must cover it, and my losses in great detail. I lost a lot of shipping ,naval auxiliaries (which hurt more than anything) and fleet submarines and 4 piper DD's (which hurt as I like to covert them to AVD's and APD's). Almost all of his main strength , especially the KB was , and is, deployed against 1st Manila, then the DEI. My USA air power was totally wiped out, B-17's and PBY's were evacuated , (as at this point , they are much more useful to me than anything else. Naval Search aircraft are at an absolute premium, and absolutely critical to my survival if I'm going to stay out of the way of the KB). So in DEI,Mayala and the PI's I've been doing the standard delay and fall back tactic. He's heavily reinforced his Phillipine invasion forces, making my best efforts little more than speed bumps. In the DEI , again he's heavily reinforced his invasions , and is breaking into my citadels, where I've concentrated my supplies and forces. Only in Mayala is he slowed by my forces, being only halfway down the peninsular. Singapore has been very useful in repairing my damaged subs from Manila , and then serving as a forward base for my S-boats and Dutch boats , who having giving a Good account of themselves against AKL's and PB's.

Elsewhere, I've NOT reinforced my forward Islands like Wake,Midway,Johnston and Canton, but instead sent AVP's and AVD's to the more exposed ones. There I've stationed every available PBY to provide warning. This way , if the KB closes on their position , I can evacuate with minimum losses. Use them while I can, but I simply don't have the strength to defend them. Once the KB is gone I can go back, or if necessary re-take them.

I'm heavily reinforcing PH with every LCU and as much fuel and supplies as I can. If the KB comes calling , I can evacuate ships and endangered aircraft (TR's,PA's and anything else that can't fight back) and with the equivalent of several divisions on the island, he won't be able to take it, only temporally immobilize it.

I've been building Darwin,Colombo'Callcutta and Rangoon with lots of supply and LCU's (especially INF) My intention is to use these as 1) defense lines, and 2) bases from which I can launch penetration attacks and eventual invasions. For some reason he's left these alone.

He's also left PM alone, which really worries me. I've evacuated all the small units from bases like Lae and such to there, I've been building up supplies and mining the heck out of it. I've got two brigades on the way , and whatever CD units that I can send. I also have been building up Cooktown, Cairns and other coastal Airfields to use as training bases , as well as to attack any forces heading for PM. If he takes PM, I'll use these bases to launch daily LBA attacks against PM and keep it of minimum use to him.

On the central Pacific front , I had a major set back. Enterprise and Lexington were near Wake when a 9 plane strike of Betties got a hit on Enterprise. I've been having a problem with units resetting themselves (or I've embraced total senility!) and most of the fighters went into training mode. He scored one hit on Enterprise , which totally wiped out her air group and caused 76 pts of float damage. (The screen said massive explosion! I don't what it hit, but it was catastrophic). I detached cruiser strike groups to hit Roi, which must have been where the Betties were based, as they didn't bother me again. Also , as the cruisers were closer than Enterprise, I assumed that they'd be attacked instead of her. I had two AR's and lots of supplies on Wake , but she sank one hex out. This leaves me very short of carrier air , not to mention carriers!

For now , all I can do is train everything that flies up to a decent level. All of my BB's are undergoing refit stateside. I'm converting AK's to AR's and AKE's and AE's as fast as I can, Bird class AM's to AVP's and old DD's to APD's and AVD's (3 to 1 ratio).

It's now early Jan. 1942. Comment's, observations and suggestions would be very welcome. Again I apologize for the non-AAR format , but when we started it wasn't possible for me. If anyone thinks starting a AAR at this late date would still be of interest, please let me know.

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 9/11/2010 11:35:34 PM >


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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 7:25:35 PM   
USS America


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First, Steve, definitely start an AAR.  I found it really helped me keep track of things that were going on from turn to turn, as well as being a place for ongoing discussion. 

Second, if he's using the KB in the DEI, then you know where it ain't, if you get my drift.  One of the biggest strengths of the KB is not knowing where it might appear next, forcing the Allied player to be cautious everywhere.  It sounds like you are taking advantage of the opportunity to push supplies and reinforcements into Ceylon and India.  (I wouldn't commit too much to Rangoon.... you WILL lose it, if Andre wants it)  While you know where the KB is, I would increase the tempo of supply/troop reinforcements into the South Pacific island chain and NZ/Oz.  You may even want to consider establishing a strong position at Noumea earlier than usual. 

When you notice his carriers starting to move East from the DEI into the Pacific again, that's when it's time to run with your ships and hunker down with your troops.  He will want to try to force a Coral Sea type battle early, before you get up to 5 carriers, or maybe after that if he brings all his CV's to the party.  I'll bet he comes looking for any and all shipping of yours in the South Pacific and works his way up the island chain toward Palmyra.  He may not invade all or any of those places, but he will do what he can to try to force you to fight at sea. 

Just some ideas as I try to think like the enemy. 


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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 7:30:45 PM   
gladiatt


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Steve, i'd be glad to read your AAR !

Unfortunately, i won't be of good advice, being not a player of AE (still keeping with old Witp) , but if an idea arise i would give it !

Have fun/luck

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 8:17:06 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

First, Steve, definitely start an AAR.  I found it really helped me keep track of things that were going on from turn to turn, as well as being a place for ongoing discussion. 

Second, if he's using the KB in the DEI, then you know where it ain't, if you get my drift.  One of the biggest strengths of the KB is not knowing where it might appear next, forcing the Allied player to be cautious everywhere.  It sounds like you are taking advantage of the opportunity to push supplies and reinforcements into Ceylon and India.  (I wouldn't commit too much to Rangoon.... you WILL lose it, if Andre wants it)  While you know where the KB is, I would increase the tempo of supply/troop reinforcements into the South Pacific island chain and NZ/Oz.  You may even want to consider establishing a strong position at Noumea earlier than usual. 

When you notice his carriers starting to move East from the DEI into the Pacific again, that's when it's time to run with your ships and hunker down with your troops.  He will want to try to force a Coral Sea type battle early, before you get up to 5 carriers, or maybe after that if he brings all his CV's to the party.  I'll bet he comes looking for any and all shipping of yours in the South Pacific and works his way up the island chain toward Palmyra.  He may not invade all or any of those places, but he will do what he can to try to force you to fight at sea. 

Just some ideas as I try to think like the enemy. 



Thanks Mike. I'll see what I can do about ther AAR. As I recall there were a couple of good threads on how to start one on the Vanilla WITP forum.

While I do generally know where the KB is, I don't know where his other carriers are. I would not put it past Andre (he's a very agressive , yet unconventional player. And he doesn't miss much). I've only got two servicable carriers, equipped with Buffalo's and Devastators.And from the Enterprise debacle, very badly trained crews. Also my scoutings not up to the point that I would want to risk my CV's on a major raid. I never got wind of those Betties till they torpedoed Enterprise in what I considered relatively safe waters. I might risk a cruiser bombardment raid, distant covered by the carriers, but that's really all I've got.As they say in baseball, "It's a building year". And even in real life , the USN didn't really risk the carriers till almost May. That's four months from now.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to USS America)
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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 8:18:41 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt


Steve, i'd be glad to read your AAR !

Unfortunately, i won't be of good advice, being not a player of AE (still keeping with old Witp) , but if an idea arise i would give it !

Have fun/luck


Thanks Eric. You have an AAR running in regular WITP don't you? If you don't have any suggestions on the strategy side, maybe you could help me with ideas and suggestions on putting together a AAR.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 8:31:54 PM   
Terminus


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You're still in the "Duck and Cover" stage, Steve. Keep doing it.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 8:39:44 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You're still in the "Duck and Cover" stage, Steve. Keep doing it.


Thanks T! That's what I thought, but it's sure nice to hear someone else say it!

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"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 8:46:58 PM   
USS America


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Yep, "Duck and cover" is a much better way of saying, "when you see his carriers heading in the direction of the South Pacific, run for all you're worth."  

I don't have my man's gift for succinctness.

< Message edited by USS America -- 8/19/2010 8:47:28 PM >


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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 9:17:44 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Yep, "Duck and cover" is a much better way of saying, "when you see his carriers heading in the direction of the South Pacific, run for all you're worth."  

I don't have my man's gift for succinctness.


Actually for T , that was almost verbose! Normally he stays with "no" or "yes". I feel positively honored!

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 9:46:48 PM   
Canoerebel


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Steve, you're just beginning the game, so it would be a great time to start an AAR.  Having the Allied side would be a great treat.

I can't recall whether you guys are playing Scenario One or Two - it makes a bit of a difference - but some thoughts.

I don't think the Allies have a prayer of holding Port Moresby in a game against a competent Japanese player.  The Japanese can get their quickly and overwhelm - or isolate and destroy - whatever you send there.  You're just creating your own prison camp (or death camp).  You can't win the battle, so think carefully whether it's worth the effort to engage in it.  If you're reinforcing PM, you're leaving other places - places that you DO need to defend - unprotected.

AE seems to differ from WitP as far as Allied early war strategy in the air.  In WitP you wanted to seek air battle whenever and wherever possible, becuase every single pilot lost really hurt the Japanese.  But in AE it's an entirely different matter.  The Japanese seem to be able to readily replace aicraft and good pilots, but the Allies can run short of both at times.  So a war of attrition in the air seems to benefit the Japanese more than the Allies. 

Termimus is right.  Duck and cover.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 10:17:48 PM   
AW1Steve


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Good point. That's what I need to hear. So besides setting all my bases to fortify , and putting all my stateside planes to 100% training , any suggestions on how to prepare for my comeback?

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"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/19/2010 10:19:32 PM   
topeverest

 

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Steve,

Would love to read AAR.

Agree with the comments of my more esteemed collegues. Stay away from KB. You also should think about where you can use your 'new' old battlewagons and which island hub bases you want for the USA - Oz link. Lots more sealane interdiction options open to you now. Too early to tell if you will face India or Oz strategy, so I'd probably plan for both as much as possible until it is clear.

IMHO your 'new' fleet can be put to great defensive use.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 12:27:25 AM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
Good point. That's what I need to hear. So besides setting all my bases to fortify , and putting all my stateside planes to 100% training , any suggestions on how to prepare for my comeback?


Obviously, you need to keep your opponent honest by administering a licking - or at least making a game effort at it - every now and then. You don't want him to become too comfortable.

But the main thing for the Allies is to exercise patience. 1942 is going to be really tough. 1943 is going to be really tough. 1944 is going to be tough too. But sometime during 1944, you are going to realize that you have become so powerful, and have so very, very much to work with, that you can really take the war to your enemy. At that point, he probably won't be able to stop you. All he will be able to do is to slow you down and keep you honest.

The point being: be patient, just like in WitP, but be patient longer. Especially if you're playing Scenario Two. If you don't go and lose all your carriers in '42 and early '43 like I usually do, you're going to be one tough customer when the time comes to stick it to the enemy.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 12:29:33 AM   
Canoerebel


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P.S.  Or, you can forego all this advice and become an accolyte of Nemo.  Then you can win your game in 1942.  I'm not sure how that works, and I'm darned sure it wouldn't work for me, but he has the Midas Touch.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 2:43:28 AM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

P.S.  Or, you can forego all this advice and become an accolyte of Nemo.  Then you can win your game in 1942.  I'm not sure how that works, and I'm darned sure it wouldn't work for me, but he has the Midas Touch.


Did he do an AAR? I couldn't find one....

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 12:30:39 PM   
xj900uk

 

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For now, you are on the ultra-defensive. But it seems as though you've got the right idea with your subs, as for now these are all you've really got to try and inflict some serious damage which will tell on him in the long run. Use them to guard/patrol known choke points, like close to the sources of oil in the DEI, however don't get many trapped in shallow water as his ASW groups may not be very effective but they will still find subs in the shallows.
Right now US torpedos are very poor and unreliable, so consider using them for dropping off mines where he least expects them - you never know you might get luckjy!
Elsewhere he's got good aircrews but will find these difficult to replace in the long-run so force him to make attritional losses and judgements, particularly with regards to his IJN aircrews which will traditionally be harder to train up

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 12:38:28 PM   
sprior


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Steve,

You are on the strategic and operational defensive but you should (and must) undertake tactical offensives occasionally. If you just pull back and clear the road for him every time he shows up he will push you a long, long way.

Come on over and look at The World's Worst AAR (tm). We're in May 42.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 1:24:59 PM   
Canoerebel


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Nemo's AAR is "Salutations and Solicitations." He posts often and at length, so you'll generally find it near the top of page one.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 2:36:06 PM   
topeverest

 

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Thanks Canoerebel,

For the life of me I cant ID your avatar, and I'm usually pretty good with what appears to be a CSA general. Who would that be?

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 3:30:16 PM   
Canoerebel


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Top, it's Colonel Emory F. Best, 23rd Georgia Regiment.  I've recently written about him in both of my AARs (Shattered Vow and Here Come the Rebels).  I've also written about him for North Georgia Journal magazine, and that article later became a chapter in a book, Traced with Fire/Written in Blood, which is devoted to the Civil War in Georgia.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 5:58:29 PM   
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Steve,

I agree with T and the others: I think you are trying to setup too far forward.  Andre, particularly with his PI opening, can take anything he targets early.  Rebaul, PM, and other locations are just too likely to be on his shopping list.  Like some of the others, I'm not Nemo, so I haven't been able to stop IJ in early '42.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 6:05:18 PM   
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One thing I'd say about being "on the ultra-offensive" is that you usually suffer far less hardship done to you if your opponent is worried about what you're going to do to them...

So, don't be afraid of mounting an offensive or two or three so long as you know you can take what you need and get out of dodge before KB comes calling. So long as you can accomplish your objectives before KB becomes involved you CAN attack as the Allies in 1942. By doing so you'll make your opponent rob the speartip in order to guard his SLOCs, weakening the speartip sufficiently that it becomes much less potent and something your average bases can stand up to.

Ideally you should be looking for a 3 month period of time in which you engage in no aerial combat. By the end of those 3 months you should have 70 A2A, 70 naval bombing etc skill pilots and that makes your air force far, far more lethal - and will result in far fewer losses.

Basically though I think you'll find that if you don't do something to put him off his stride then you'll be much more at his mercy than otherwise would be the case.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 8:26:10 PM   
AW1Steve


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Great ideas! Any suggestions what I go on the offensive with on Jan 14, 1942? I've already lost one carrier, and one of my two left still has Buffalo's. I suppose I could cobble together some B-18's with experince of around 36! There, that'll show him!

I've been viciously assaulting him with Dutch B-10's (B-139's) , flogging him with Buffalo's and certainly intimidating him with 2 full squadrons of Vilderbeasts! My subs are doing all they can, and once my old BB's come back from their refits, I plan on scattering them to do hit and run raids. The same with some outdated CL's. Would it be worth my wile to launch small island raids with a Marine regiment and some disposable transports? (Strictly hit and run, till my APD's come on line and then I can use them). My fondest hope is really to drive him completely nuts. I can't really hurt his forces very much, but any ideas on how to get him chasing at shadows? Maybe multiple raids from several directions at once?

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"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 10:56:19 PM   
topeverest

 

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I think the sealane interdiction by a force of a cruiser and 4 or so DD's streaking around from small ports along the MLR is very effective. use a system with specific patrol zones. Raid Babelbaoeb, etc.

As far as invasions or carrier raids where KB isnt, the most devious I know of requires throwaway land forces, and I certainly dont put marine regiments in that category... Hokkaido or Sakhalin by the long route through Nome hugging the ice shield. Hope he hasnt put patrols in the Paramushiro Jima. With a few ENG units and one INF you should be able to take one of those objectives, and the ENG units will force heavy damage when he retakes. Kushiro is my first target and overwhelming best location, and shikuka is my second. Alternately, you can invade PJ to hold it and bag onnekotan jima at the same time. Will force huge changes in Japanese plans.

Good hunting

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/20/2010 11:32:51 PM   
Nemo121


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Well I sank two bbs with devastators and wildebeests are even better than them.

In terms of AARs I would suggest the Aussies vs Amis one which is excellent and has stymied the Japanese or, possibly, mine which has featured raids against the kuriles, Singapore, japan proper and an offensive vs the marshalls.

I'd certainly be happy to answer any questions you might have in that aar thread.

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/21/2010 11:22:48 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

I think the sealane interdiction by a force of a cruiser and 4 or so DD's streaking around from small ports along the MLR is very effective. use a system with specific patrol zones. Raid Babelbaoeb, etc.

As far as invasions or carrier raids where KB isnt, the most devious I know of requires throwaway land forces, and I certainly dont put marine regiments in that category... Hokkaido or Sakhalin by the long route through Nome hugging the ice shield. Hope he hasnt put patrols in the Paramushiro Jima. With a few ENG units and one INF you should be able to take one of those objectives, and the ENG units will force heavy damage when he retakes. Kushiro is my first target and overwhelming best location, and shikuka is my second. Alternately, you can invade PJ to hold it and bag onnekotan jima at the same time. Will force huge changes in Japanese plans.

Good hunting


Yeah, but if I hit the home islands, doesn't he recieve lots of unrestricted reinforcements?

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RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/21/2010 11:59:00 PM   
topeverest

 

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Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
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Yes, 6 units / divisions? I believe, but...as Nemo has so articulately explained in his current AAR, the critical Empire asset defficiencies are naval, not ground. IMHO, under the right strategy, this is a total no-brainer, forcing the seeds of doubt into most Empire players and dulling the overall attack capabilities by diverting assets to defense. Of course, it depends on how the empire is being played, and how you plan to act against it.

Anyway, it is usually - if not always - a great target area.

good hunting

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Andy M

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 27
RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/22/2010 2:58:50 AM   
AW1Steve


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From: ME-FL-NE-IL ?
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Here's another question. Andre has been very slow in Malaysia (no doubt because he sent the troops to China or the PI) and Singapore is in pretty good shape, but short on aircraft (Half a Buffalo squadron and a full vildebeast squadron ). If I sneak in 2 AVG squadrons, and a large bunch of B-17D's and E's, and begin heavy bombing of the docks at Palemberg, will that bottle up oil production for a while? I agreed to no strategic bombing till 1943 as part of the house rules. Is it even worth it?

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"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 28
RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/22/2010 4:02:44 AM   
topeverest

 

Posts: 2032
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline
Not if you cant bomb the oil or refinery. TB's and F's are good if you plan naval attacks, but in general leaving air assets for any period of time in S is pretty risky IMO. need to keep moving them around

bombing port Wont slow production, just capability to get it off for a few days or a week.

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Andy M

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 29
RE: The Prince part 2 (No Chickenboy please!) - 8/24/2010 2:09:54 AM   
AW1Steve


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From: ME-FL-NE-IL ?
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Thanks. I'm just going to come up with something else to make Chickenboy crazy.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 30
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