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Just learning - 8/19/2010 3:48:34 PM   
rekm41


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So I am new to this wonderful game and thought I would start small so I chose to play Prussia. Standard game with Advanced Economy I thought I would jump right in and I have played FoF so some I already understand. Nonetheless I still followed Gil R. excellant first few turns advice posted in the forums here. It kept my NM up and gave me some hints as to what to do. So I played a few turns until I believe Jun 1806 when I DW on Saxony a neighbour to Prussia's immediate south. I won the battle there and their army retreated to their other country to the east. I began to seige their capital and wham Austria moves in with over 160,000 troops to my measly 50000 or so. Needless to say they lost the battle and retreated back to their homeland in Berlin. Austria then attacked there defeating me again. I asked for but was refused a semi surrender and then they accepted finally on the following turn when I again offered to surrender totally this time.

My armies received some much needed experience. What gets me is that I never noticed how the relationship between Saxony and Austria was or did Austria just seize the opportunity.

This game is excellant and the learning curve is easy to crasp. I will probably start again I saved at the 1st turn after setting up all of Prussia's initial economic choices. This time I think I will wait till I have a more sizeable army.

Any advice here?

Thanks

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RE: Just learning - 8/19/2010 7:59:05 PM   
terje439


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Not sure what you are really asking here, but if it is why Austria turns on you all the sudden, it is probably because they had the offer to make Saxony a protectorate when you issued your DoW on said minor.
To achieve this, the Austrians would have had to have an army within 4 provinces of Saxony.

When a protectorate is attacked you get the options
-issue a DoW on attacker
-issue a warning
-stop being a protector of the minor

So I guess the Austrians decided that THEY should be the Germanic superpower and issued a DoW on you

Terje

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RE: Just learning - 8/19/2010 8:24:27 PM   
rekm41


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Not really asking anything specific. Just general terms. I imagine that is what happened.

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RE: Just learning - 8/22/2010 7:50:21 AM   
GShock


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I am a master of FoF but have stopped playing computer games because I have no time.

I bought CogEE to support EricBabe and WCS and I found myself playing at night... I am playing advanced economy and all the rest on default difficulty/glory as Spain.

I guess I fit into this thread "Just learning". I finally captured Gibraltar but I can't seem to send any militia units inside this fort. Is this normal? The only way to garrison it is by detaching a unit from the container who captured it... I even tried with the Reinforce to but units out of containers simply can't access this region.

I can see the british blockade is causing some serious damage, I would like to sue for peace but I have no idea how to propose that while keeping gibraltar, at the same time, I am trying to have PT ask me to become protectorate (I suppose a minor country can't be asked to be ally or won't ask a major power to be allied either so this or conquest is the only possibility with PT). Any tips on how to make the British leave me alone? After PT is swayed to my side I'd like to move to Africa but with those nasty fleets blockading my ports my naval actions are VERY limited so my first step is learning diplomacy of this game.

what am I supposed to do to weaken the british (for example I tried to offer a cease fire to Prussia, Sweden, Russia and Austria but they always refuse... does this have to do with the fact I am allied to France?)? Any tips? :)


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RE: Just learning - 8/22/2010 1:49:57 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

I guess I fit into this thread "Just learning". I finally captured Gibraltar but I can't seem to send any militia units inside this fort. Is this normal? The only way to garrison it is by detaching a unit from the container who captured it... I even tried with the Reinforce to but units out of containers simply can't access this region.


You can no longer send millitia into provinces you do not own, in the example above you do not own the province, you are only occupying it. Any normal divison (arty-cav-inf) can be sent there alone if you want to have some garrison there.


quote:

I can see the british blockade is causing some serious damage, I would like to sue for peace but I have no idea how to propose that while keeping gibraltar, at the same time, I am trying to have PT ask me to become protectorate (I suppose a minor country can't be asked to be ally or won't ask a major power to be allied either so this or conquest is the only possibility with PT). Any tips on how to make the British leave me alone? After PT is swayed to my side I'd like to move to Africa but with those nasty fleets blockading my ports my naval actions are VERY limited so my first step is learning diplomacy of this game.


Your only chance to keep Gibraltar unless the British surrender is to offer them a partial surrender which they are most likely to reject. War with Britain is a pain, for two reasons;
a) unlike war with other nations, wars with Britain never ceases due to lack of hostilities
b) the British economy tends to be so good that their NM as well is high, meaning you will often need to invade Britain to knock her out of the war.

Are you playing QC or DC? If you are playing DC you should be able to win the naval battles against an inferior British fleet.


quote:

what am I supposed to do to weaken the british (for example I tried to offer a cease fire to Prussia, Sweden, Russia and Austria but they always refuse... does this have to do with the fact I am allied to France?)? Any tips? :)


The AI tends to refuse a cease fire treaty unless you are severly kicking them around, but remember that after some time without hostilities between two nations, the war between them lapses.

To weaken the British...Well, try to wear down their navy, refuse them provinces on the mainland so that their army cannot be expanded very much.
Not much to do about the British really, but as mentioned earlier, in DC against the AI it is possible to defeat the RN if you bring superior forces against one RN fleet.

Terje

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Post #: 5
RE: Just learning - 8/22/2010 3:14:39 PM   
GShock


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quote:


Your only chance to keep Gibraltar unless the British surrender is to offer them a partial surrender which they are most likely to reject.


So when I offer a limited surrender I can ask to keep Gibraltar? Considering Spain is basically at war with the entire Europe (because it's allied to France), is it possible to achieve a cease fire with the other major powers (i.e. Sweden) which should basically weaken the british position? I have tried but with 1 dip action per turn so far I failed with them all. Luckily Austria surrendered to France and I was able to steal 6% reparations till 1807 without doing anything in this war against Austria. So is it possible to achieve separate peaces with the other majors or do I have to surrender to Britain (or to any of them?) Who is the leader of my enemies in this war, how can I identify him?

To answer to your question, Instant Combat is what I play.



quote:


The AI tends to refuse a cease fire treaty unless you are severly kicking them around, but remember that after some time without hostilities between two nations, the war between them lapses.


If hostilities also mean naval battles, then I am afraid you are right it will never end with Britain because it constantly blockades me. What happens when a war lapses? What I was asking above? Separate cease fires? A lapsed war is a permanent truce or can it start again without a new DoW?


Terje I think I saw a full pbem game based on the spanish turn... was that you who did that? I can't find it, I would like to study the moves. Can you help with that too please?

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RE: Just learning - 8/22/2010 7:54:17 PM   
terje439


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IF your enemies are allied with eachother you will have to surrender to them all unfortunately, but if they are not allied then you can surrender to individual nations.
There is no "alliance leader".

A lapsed war takes effect when two waring nations have not done any combat with eachother for some time (not sure about how long but aprox 1 year or so), this tends to happen with Sweden alot.
After a war lapses, the war ends but war can be declared again sooner than after a normal period of time, with noone being the loser or the winner, so noone gets to impose demands on the other side.

I do not think blockades counts as keeping the war from lapsing but not 100% sure on that, however wars with England NEVER lapses from lack of hostilities.

I have not done a Spanish pbem game as my PC is one of those unable to merge, but are you wondering what to do with your economy and such or what is it you would like to know?

Terje

< Message edited by terje439 -- 8/22/2010 10:05:44 PM >


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Post #: 7
RE: Just learning - 8/23/2010 10:52:08 AM   
GShock


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EHehhehe Well... I thought I saw an AAR but I am not sure whether it was COG or CogEE perhaps this is why I can't find it. IIRC it was a PBEM game. I had thought you were the author of such AAR, I remember it was a brilliant way to describe the logics behind each choice.

So I am right now with Gibraltar in my hands but the war with Britain won't lapse of course. Meanwhile I managed to eliminate one of its fleets but of course I got all European navies on me and I am trying to save my ships for quick raids. I have sent the diplomats to Austria to Force peace (or pay $) but they haven't arrived yet. After Austria has surrendered to France, it's now declared war on Portugal which joined me in Protectorate status. This allowed me to send the army of spain to Africa where I took everything till Tunisi (which is being besieged now). So this is the situation.

Questions are:

1) What should my foreign policy be as Spain (diplomatic, economy, military), just related to FOREIGN not domestic objectives (i.E. The british, french and others have declared themselves empire. Should I do so? How to? How can I make up for the loss of colonies the british are doing on me? What are the minors I should try to influence apart from PT with subsidies and are there any diplomatic options for them? I only see Dip treaties with majors).

2) How comes I can't build depots at sea (no way to select the sea area) but I see other nations' depots at sea?

3) Should my depot chain extend from Gibraltar and all along Africa (all the provinces with a depot or just 1 depot, 1 empty, 1 depot, 1 empty - > Till Tunisi where I am besieging the city) ?


Thanks, you are a jewel in helping me.



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RE: Just learning - 8/23/2010 4:21:36 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock
Questions are:

1) What should my foreign policy be as Spain (diplomatic, economy, military), just related to FOREIGN not domestic objectives (i.E. The british, french and others have declared themselves empire. Should I do so? How to? How can I make up for the loss of colonies the british are doing on me? What are the minors I should try to influence apart from PT with subsidies and are there any diplomatic options for them? I only see Dip treaties with majors).

2) How comes I can't build depots at sea (no way to select the sea area) but I see other nations' depots at sea?

3) Should my depot chain extend from Gibraltar and all along Africa (all the provinces with a depot or just 1 depot, 1 empty, 1 depot, 1 empty - > Till Tunisi where I am besieging the city) ?


Thanks, you are a jewel in helping me.



1) Hehe well this is an easy one. Forget about it Sooner or later you are likely to take the lead in glory, and the "events" report will say that "everyone is concerned by the rise of Spain", at that stage they will all come for you anyway. You say you are allied with France, this ofc is good as Spain since it removes the biggest threat from your borders.

About the minors, if you look at the "diplomacy -> country detail" screen, you will see a button next to each country that says something like "glory goals". If you click that button, you will get a list of which provinces on the map will bring you glory. Sine I hardly ever play Spain I do not recall which ones are the target for Spain, but I believe the Italian and N.African provinces are what you want.

Colonies. There are two NAVY upgrades you can buy for quite a biit of navy experience called "colonial warfare I and II", these will give your colonies a bigger chance of not getting captured, and giving you a bigger chance to capturing enemy colonies, this happens by dice-rolls and you do not influence it any way. Apart from that, you can demand colonies during peace settlements to get your hands on more colonies.

Empire. This has huge beenfits. First of all you get TWO diplomatic actions per turn instead of one, and you will gain a boost to NM every turn. Furthermore your units will gain a boost of 0.5 points to morale before every battle and you will gain more victory points when nations surrender to you. The downfall is that if you are forced to lose your empire status your NM will take a nasty fall, and if you lose a war your opponents will gain more victory points against you. But I will always go for this if possible.
If you go back to the "diplomacy -> country details" screen, you will see a coloumn marked "empire status" behind every nation, this will usually list as 10/20 or something like that. If you have enough empire points, you will be asked if you want to form an empire on a quarterly basis (if you accept you will not be asked to stop being an empire).
Empire points are calculated on the following basis;
+2 points if your nation has the 2nd highest level of culture
+4 points if your nation has the highest level of culture
+1 point per protectorate
+1 point per 10 colonies
+2 points for every conquered (not occupied!) province
-3 points for every conquered home province

Minors and other diplomatic actions;
-by using your diplomats you can try to coup the nation to join your nation. In effect this acts as you conquerring the minor, giving you full access to the minors provinces unlike protectorates where you do not get to build anything.

2) You can as long as you have a depot on shore. Right click a sea province next to your land based depot and rightclick, chose build depot. Remember that an enemy fleet will remove this depot!

3) From any depot source (provinces with a small circle around the city in it) and every province up to where your armies are.

Just happy to help so feel free to ask.

Terje

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("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to GShock)
Post #: 9
RE: Just learning - 8/25/2010 9:14:15 AM   
GShock


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The standard scenario ended with victory of France and me in second place. I had expected it to go longer than this, perhaps I should have broken my alliance with France and attacked her in the rear but I was too busy in Africa. Something to remember, it's the glory that makes the winner and next time I will.

Now I am in 1792 scenario. Spain has most of southern Italy, including my hometown, Naples eheheh. I have managed to make a coup in Portugal and am about to attack Austria / Northern Italy while my Army of Spain conquered Morocco and Algeria. I will stop at Tunisi which i am trying to sway to my side. What are my options with minors I want to annex?

1) Raise their attitude with me through subsidies/charm/good will missions and wait for someone to declare war on them
2) Coup

You can't propose a protectorate or alliance to a minor, you simply can only subsidize, right? So are there any other options for me to take with Tunisi without physically conquering it (and piss Turkey off even more than it already is)?

I am a bit puzzled about my diplomatic options with other majors. I have just entered a defensive pact with Britain and Sweden so I presume it's better I attack Austria as soon as possible. What can i do diplomatically to increase the attitude of other majors? Not the subsidies, I need them on minors... I tried the royal marriage but it never works. What is a possible treaty I can propose to bring Russia to my side for example? 

I have just a few questions at present time about the economy management of a province. The labor slider produces labour resource or is it just a commitment towards the production of new units? I suppose to produce new units In a decent time, I need docks (for ships) and lots of labor (in province management) but the new labor slider setting doesn't seem to affect units already in production while the development slider does affect the speed of new improvements in the province (i.e. roads being built) already underway... odd. Also... what happens to the unallocated slider points of province management?

I have a surplus production of horses at present time. I could trade... but I can't find this resource in the trade screen of any province I own... how comes so? If I declare war to Austria will our trades stop or the only way to stop trading is by cutting the trade (and pay Glory penalty) or stopping it with a diplomat?


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RE: Just learning - 8/25/2010 2:22:34 PM   
terje439


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Diplomats can be set to increase the standings with both minor and major powers.
Well if you want to form an alliance with Russia you might try to offer her something she wants, colonies for example, or large payments, or make the benefits for Russia largly benefitial to her.
Maybe something like this:
"Russia will form an alliance with Spain
Spain will form an alliance with Russia
Spain will pay Russia 250
Spain will refuse alliance with Austria
Spain will cede 5 colonies to Russia
Spain will not attack Russia for 5 years."
But I hardly get the diplomacy to work well for me as everyone tends to hate me...

Your defensive pact will not gain you any support in a war you start, keep this in mind.

Labour slider is for the labour "resource" only, and only a few well populated cities with alot of factories should have this set above 0, every province produces one "free" labour, but some cities might well produce 6-7 labour with the labour slider set to 50 or so.
Why would you even consider unlocated slider points? This is in effect people told "go home, have a beer, relax, we will provide your needs anyway".

Hmm sounds strange that you cannot find horses, but to me a surplus of horses would indicate that I produce more than 20 horses per turn...
I am actually not sure, but I believe the trades are placed on hold during war (again, nobody likes me in my games...)

Terje

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Post #: 11
RE: Just learning - 8/25/2010 3:03:16 PM   
GShock


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So you see for example... you said i'd need to specify BOTH in the alliance, maybe that's why it didn't work.

Russia will form an alliance with Spain
Spain will form an alliance with Russia  

BOTH... and not just either of the two with the other (singular)

I am doing pretty well this time in 1792 scenario as Spain. Things are starting to move around. :)

Now I am concerned about morale loss / increase /stationary as it appears in the province management screen (the white parchment in the bottom).

This part specifies the food needs of my population and then it talks about consumption of wine, luxuries and IIRC textiles (perhaps). The part with the food is clear, if we produce more than we consume we won't starve (and it's a good idea to trade extra food off). However, the part with the other resources affecting morale is not clear.

What I mean is that I don't see anywhere the consumption of wine (for example) and so I have no idea how the management of my individual sliders affect the morale of the nation. In other words, the statement on morale loss / stationary / increase seems to have no VISIBLE link to the province management sliders. Is there a way to find out how much the population will consume? Because in most cases i see they consume ZERO and only sometimes I am told the morale changes without knowing which of the resources is lacking. Is there an overview screen or something I can check to make sure? This should be important because it affects morale... but I can't for the love of me find somewhere to check on these resources so that I know if I should produce more or trade in some of them or not. I hope I am clear... I am talking about the white parchment in the province management screen where it says the population needs. This is absolutely a mystery right now to me on how many I need and I don't know how to op these sliders correctly without knowing this data.

Are you sure about the labor slider? It doesn't affect production speed of units?



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RE: Just learning - 8/26/2010 9:14:24 AM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

So you see for example... you said i'd need to specify BOTH in the alliance, maybe that's why it didn't work.

Russia will form an alliance with Spain
Spain will form an alliance with Russia  

BOTH... and not just either of the two with the other (singular)



I always put it that way, yes and I think that is how you need to do it.

quote:

This part specifies the food needs of my population and then it talks about consumption of wine, luxuries and IIRC textiles (perhaps). The part with the food is clear, if we produce more than we consume we won't starve (and it's a good idea to trade extra food off). However, the part with the other resources affecting morale is not clear.


Food is used to "refill" your population, the number stated as needed is only what is estimated not to lose morale due to lack of food.
Luxuries, Wine and Spices are all consumed by your population, at a rate of Men/5 (see your economy tab at the bottom of the screen to see how many "men" you have).
Textiles are used as soon as you have 100 stockpiled textiles or more, and at the same rate as above.

These goods (Luxuries, wine, spice and textiles) are consumed up to twice per turn at the set rate if available (for the list below, every successful consumption of ONE of these goods counts as one need being met).
About morale/glory loss/gain
If you fullfill 0 of these needs, you will lose 50NM and 3 glory
If you fullfill 1 of these needs, you will lose 25NM and 1 glory
If you fulfill 2 of these needs, you will not lose nor gain anything
If you fullfill 3 of these needs, you will gain 50NM and 0 glory
If you fullfill 4 of these needs, you will gain 10NM and 1 glory
If you fullfill 5 of these needs, you will gain 25NM and 2 glory
If you fullfill 6 of these needs, you will gain 50NM and 4 glory
If you fullfill 7 of these needs, you will gain 75NM and 6 glory
If you fullfill 8 of these needs, you will gain 100NM and 8 glory.

As an example, let us say you are able to meet the demands for spices twice that turn, luxuries once, and you do not meet the demands for textiles and wine, you will fullfill a total of 3 needs (2 for spices and 1 for luxuries) giving you 50NM and no glory for that turn.


quote:

Are you sure about the labor slider? It doesn't affect production speed of units?


I have not really thought about it, nor looked at it tbh so it can be that I am mistaken, but I do not THINK it affects the production speed of units.

Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

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Post #: 13
RE: Just learning - 8/26/2010 11:14:03 AM   
GShock


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All right Professor Terje... We're ranked second in the 1792 scenario but of course, we've had a fine easy path without confronting any major power at war so far.... hostilities will begin soon so I need your help again... :)

1) Alliances
It appears I am able to ratify treaties (even when I propose them) where an intervention of a major power is granted against a major power who declares war to me. Now, what is the difference between an alliance in the proper sense of the war and a treaty that, for example, grants britain my intervention against her enemies? There has to be some difference, really... but I can't see it. In any case, I didn't want to offer too much so I did not manage to get an alliance so far. I am trying to raise the attitude of the other major powers but it's hard with just 2 diplomats (and one is not really good). I suppose it's easier to get treaties done when the attitude of the recipient is favorable, no?

2) Coup
One of my diplomats has been trying to make a Coup in PT from the beginning of the game without succeeding. Does the attitude with me or presence of military units in the nearby affect the coup roll or it's just a check against all 3 talents of the diplomat alone (inf, sp, legal)?

3) What does the flag of a major power on a minor power province mean?

4) I moved my troops from Naples to Florence, passing over Ancona which belongs to the Papacy. The Papacy has issued a formal complaint for violation. I know I can ask passage to a major power but what to do with a minor? Can I ask for passage? Should I first increase attitude? How does it work?

5) Dow & Casus Belli
I so far have seen just a penalty on Glory when declaring a surprise attack (I suppose this means I can immediately invade the enemy in the same turn i call for the surprise attack while if i declare war, I had better invade next turn so there's no violation, is this correct?) but I did not really understand if in CoGEE there's a casus belli system like in EUIII. How do the ultimatums work for example... Is there a way to correctly cause someone to declare war on you? And ... the opposite: The procedure of declaring war without incurring in penalties requires something other than the declaration itself? Do I need a casus belli? If so how to create the premises for one?

6) Can my diplomat end my own trade route at my province or the foreign trading province or the end trade route works only with others' trade routes? I am asking this so I can bypass eventually the penalty for cancelling a trade in the trade review screen.

7) The war status seems to have victory points more or less like in UE (you can see them in the R bar) However, I seem to be still at war with the Papacy. I am said I am at war, I even conquered Rome but somehow the siege in Ancona doesn't start. What's wrong? Why sometimes sieges don't even start? It's a bug?

No more for the moment... take your time to answer, some of these questions are a bit tricky. :)


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RE: Just learning - 8/26/2010 4:27:07 PM   
terje439


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1. Not sure if this is what you mean, but there are "alliances", which if entered will make you go to war with any nation your ally goes to war with wether it is your alliance partner that is the agressor or if that nation is declared war upon, and then there are "pledges of defence" where you will only go to war if your partner is attacked.

2. Just a roll against the skills of the diplomat.

3. If I understand you correctly, you are talking about those provinces with two flags in them? These are conquered minor nations. The small flag is the minor nation that province belongs to, the big flag is the flag of the major power in control of that province.

4. Nah, nothing to do about it, they will keep complaining about it and you will have a minor negative adjustment to your standings with that minor.

5. Casus Belli are activated in one of two ways. Either by violating the neutrality of another nation, or if nation A places large troops on nation B's borders unless nation A is at war with any nation.
A casus belli gives you three options;
issue ultimatum - this forces the offender to stop his offending actions, either by stop moving through your territory or by removing his units from your borders. If the offending nation does not comply, the nations are at war from next turn.
ignore - just as it says, you ignore the casus belli.
declare war - just as you guessed, you go to war without suffering any glory penalty for doing so.

Surprise attacks allows you to move your troops into enemy positions the same turn you issue the DoW.


6. Hehe gamey! Have not tested this one so cannot help you, but I would guess that it would not work against your own trades, but not at all sure.

7. Is your army in supply? Seems to me it is best to have supply in the same province as the siege. Is your army big enough? If the army is too small in comparison to the garrison, there will be no siege.

Terje

_____________________________

"Hun skal torpederes!" - Birger Eriksen

("She is to be torpedoed!")

(in reply to GShock)
Post #: 15
RE: Just learning - 8/29/2010 6:20:56 PM   
GShock


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Well this is what I found so far... I mean the things still not too clear. If you haven't heard of me it's because I wanted to be sure. :)

1) I've noticed there's a container with a white flag on top after a big battle... it's the POWs. What's the use of these?

2) What's the effect of angering the USA with blockades? In other words since USA is not in the game, in what way does it influence the game itself?

3) What does the "Violate Neutrality" diplomatic option do exactly? I do not understand its purpose.

4) I checked the F1 help guide and it states clearly that LABOR slider is used to allocate workforce into production of new units thus making the production of new units faster. However, just like you and I both said (though in different terms), there seems to be no change in the production speed of new units, albeit no change at all in the production of ANY resource when tampering with this particular slider. It appears to me, that this slider is totally broken unless you can tell me more about it that is currently slipping from my mind. Really... it's a mystery.

5) During my war against Austria, I PAID France to intervene which she did and I was able to capture all Italy with just one significant battle, however, as France captured Vienna and Austria rioted, we won the war but one of my armies was stuck in Malta. There seems to be no way (and in this it's exactly the same PROBLEM as in FoF) to load back the army container onto the nearby fleets and move them out of the way. This means I had to keep the army supplied with depots in Sicily, Mediterranean and Malta itself for God knows how many turns, and I did violate neutrality (though I don't know at what cost) and luckily, in the end, Malta fell... I am 99% sure however that Malta was on my list of provinces to be ceded following the terms of austria's surrender so, again, i dont' know if this violation of neutrality option helped solve the problem but the problem in itself remains: If a fleet cannot enter a port, the troops stationed in a coastal region are JAMMED there indefinitely. Confirm? Is there a solution in this case?

6) Though I have 700 horses, I can't seem to find a province that wants to trade them out to someone else. How comes so? I do see other country's regions with the horse resource available for trade... it's strange.

7) The only free units in the spring levy I ever saw, were generated in the Kingdom of the 2 sicilies, not in Spain (my homeland) and they were generated with my readiness at 85%. I suppose the readiness is a factor... not sure I will try next year to be ready with 100% readiness but are you sure with 100% readiness free troops will be generated in Spain? Does it work with other countries?

8) What is the difference between forage and supply (Container settings button)? It seems the same to me, really. If the container can supply it will, otherwise it will forage automatically (with unknown consequences of course) so why was this option inserted?

9) I suppose the R bottom bar (relations) in the main screen indicates through color-coded points the military degree of success/insuccess of a war. Yet the colors yellow/red and the color BLUE (in the treaty screen) are just about unclear. I thinnk yellow means you're winning and red you're losing but blue? And yet again... what's the purpose of a color coded number if in the surrender treaty screen there's a totally different number? (i.e. I am winning 97 but I can ask for 9000+ points in the surrender options for treaties)

10) Spain starts with 2x2 star generals but only 1x3 star general. I have 2 armies hence one has no commander. Is there a way to spawn new generals or promote the existing ones OTHER than battle?

That's all at least for now.

What I've noticed (and liked) so far is the fact you can REALLY influence the war with diplomatic options... this means you can actually play countless times with the same country and yet play every time a different game (longevity is extreme but well... I still play FoF so that's a big plus of WCS projects). Yet, the way I so easily defeated Austria left me very puzzled. It seems to me the AI needs some beefing up (in logics, not in handicaps/cheating). Are you of the same idea? 


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RE: Just learning - 8/30/2010 12:23:49 PM   
terje439


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Alot of Qs here, some of them I will have to start up the game to see what you mean so will reply to those later.

1. Nothing really, in CoG:EE unlike in CoG they cannot be liberated, but these are units that will return to their original nation after the war ends with a reduced morale.

2. They might send in some frigates to battle your navies, that is all.

3. It allows you to place depots and move units through AI/other players provinces without a treaty.

4. The labour slider will only be useful in provinces with big cities and alot of factories, like Paris. By increasing the slider in such provinces you will increase the labour output of that province, but most provinces will nto gain you more than one labour no matter how high you set this.

5. If I get you correct, your army was trapped AFTER the war with Austria ended? If so, see #3, you will need to chose to violate the neutrality of Austria for one turn, then you can chose "stop to violate neutrality" after you have moved your units.

7. Bug, known to WCS , since the last patch only Naples (and at times Russia and OE) will gain anything from spring levy, same with colonial regiments upgrade.

8. You can chose to let units NOT supply themselves to save money, forcing them to forage, with the possibility of losses due to forage not being successful.

10. More generals should pop up every now and then, but as said before I tend to not play Spain so maybe she does not have alot of generals?

That leaves #6 and 9 atm, will look those up later on.

About the AI...well there are a few things that could be handled differently, but all in all it does a decent job, try being on top of the glory-meter, and you will see how fast things get nasty. However the AI does not do too well when it comes to handling coalition wars, allowing me to destroy the AI armies in succession, and not having to fight on several fronts.

Terje



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RE: Just learning - 8/30/2010 4:44:21 PM   
terje439


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6. Strange I cannot trade away horses either, I can only trade for them.

9. The coulours on the "R" label is to determine how you are liked.
yellow(loved) - blue - green (neutral) - red - purple (hated)

If that is not what you mean, please post a picture.



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RE: Just learning - 8/30/2010 5:04:48 PM   
GShock


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Point 4) can't be as you say. Labor is increased by factories and it's in HEAVY excess right here with all sliders of individual provinces being on ZERO. So it has to be like the manual says, that this slider is used to affect unit production speed, just like the development slider affects facility construction speed. However, I did not notice any change in the speed while tampering with this slider. It is POSSIBLE that the speed of unit production is only affected IF you tamper with the slider BEFORE starting the production, however, in order to see that you need to complete a unit before starting the same unit type again (after moving the labor slider) because if you try with a unit already being produced, if this is like in FoF, the speed will be slower because it takes into account multiple unit production. I haven't seen really but if it doesn't work like I say it means this slider is bugged and there's no other possibility (just to make sure, I clicked the update button on the autolauncher and it says im on the last version which is 1.0.9).

5) You can only board your ships if your ships are AT A PORT. Now if Malta is Austrian and my army is there in Malta, there's no way I can enter that port, hence, the Army is jammed there. Same problem as in FoF. If you capture NO and intend to jump back on the ships, you need the ships to enter NO and then you can do it but if the ship is at the mississipi mouth, your container can't board it (you can only UNLOAD but not LOAD that's what I mean). Of course, If Malta is not mine I can't enter the port to load the container back, and thus, I can't stop violating the austrian territory (regardless of the diplomatic option).

9) Not talking about the color coded emoticon faces but the color code of the NUMBERS just next to the emoticons. It appears these numbers show the remaining turns of enforced peace with a major power, however if you hover the mouse on some major power you are at war with, these numbers should represent victory points in the current war. What is unclear is why these numbers are yellow-red-blue. I say yellow means enforced peace turns, red = victory points (unclear whether winning or losing points) blue I only noticed in the treaty screen and I have NO idea of what it means.

As of the AI I am a bit puzzled about its behavior in general. The FoF AI is rather stupid and falls easily with gamey tactics. It appears to me this one is a bit better and, considering this is 10 times more complex than FoF I'd say it's MUCH better. However, I was literally free to conquer the whole Africa and the entire Italy (which brought me up in glory) before Austria intervened (before ANYONE AT ALL intervened to stop me) and this is VERY bad. The first game, I was unprepared... but at the second one, by the time I arrived to Venice, I had much more land firepower and when Austria came in, I obliterated it, which means even more "easy" Glory points.

Yes, essentially it's at the strategic level that the AI needs to be beefed up. I am sure when I get more experience I'll find a ton of ways to beat the AI with gamey tactics. A hint on how poorly the AI is offensively was given in my last match where Russia was unable to conquer Poland, Austria took the entire Eastern Europe but since it didn't stop me, I got the entire Africa, entire Italy (islands included and excluding my allied France's Corsica) and even Switzerland. When UK declared war on me I was almost in Denmark and I repeat, totally unstopped. That's bad... I suppose after the release of FoFGB a patch could be released to correct this deficiency, though I am really skeptical on the results. This game is TOO complex for any AI around and if Eric can fix it, he should work at NASA not at WCS. ;)


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RE: Just learning - 8/30/2010 5:20:23 PM   
terje439


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#4






Attachment (1)

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RE: Just learning - 8/30/2010 5:24:33 PM   
terje439


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#5 sorry thought you could let your ships enter port if you violated neutrality, seems you cannot. My bad.

Terje

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RE: Just learning - 8/30/2010 5:27:37 PM   
GShock


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Ehehehe Well of course you have 3 factories, almost 4 right there but the point remains.

I almost conquered the entire africa, the total of southern europe and even part of central europe and ALL my provinces had the labor slider on 0 with the exception of Madrid where I was testing the production of new units and the movement of the labor slider didn't change much... with all this situation going on I am in heavy excess of labor because all those provinces have factory factors of 1 or 2 (and certainly not because of the labor slider as I said).

However, the manual does say that it has nothing to do with labor resource just with unit production speed... and that's the problem, it doesn't seem to affect it at all. Something to investigate on... for next patch. Going to look into this a bit more tomorrow. Thanks for posting Ter. :) 

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RE: Just learning - 8/30/2010 6:00:25 PM   
terje439


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GShock

Ehehehe Well of course you have 3 factories, almost 4 right there but the point remains.

I almost conquered the entire africa, the total of southern europe and even part of central europe and ALL my provinces had the labor slider on 0 with the exception of Madrid where I was testing the production of new units and the movement of the labor slider didn't change much... with all this situation going on I am in heavy excess of labor because all those provinces have factory factors of 1 or 2 (and certainly not because of the labor slider as I said).

However, the manual does say that it has nothing to do with labor resource just with unit production speed... and that's the problem, it doesn't seem to affect it at all. Something to investigate on... for next patch. Going to look into this a bit more tomorrow. Thanks for posting Ter. :) 


Hmmm what you say does not agree with me.
The problem is that the term labor is used in two ways, so are you talking about the labor RESOURCE (LR in this post)? Because that is what I am talking about, not the ammount of labour to allocate to the provinces.
Every province produce 1 LR no matter what, but cities with higher population and factories will usually give more LR if you move the labor-slider.
If I reduce the labor slider to 0, Paris will only give me 1 LR not the 8LR they give me atm.
However not all provinces are good at producing labor even with high pop and alot of factories for some reason, so you will only have to check the provinces you gain to see.
And EXCESS labor??? Seriously?? I always have way to few LR.

Oh, and I am pretty sure I have 4 soon 5 factories

Terje

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RE: Just learning - 8/31/2010 7:05:54 AM   
GShock


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I am talking about the labor SLIDER which doesn't seem to affect labor resource production or unit production speed either. In other words this slider seems to be broken. It is not possible to produce, backspace, change slider and then reproduce, so in order to test this, I need to reload the game... I didn't check that out but will do later today. Remember, the manual states Labor slider affects unit production speed.

I still have the problem with sieges. I started new game (standard scenario this time) with spain. Declared war on Morocco at the first turn... however I had forgotten in this scenario, Spain is allied to France and immediately at war with Britain so my fleets were destroyed and I couldn't go to Africa with my spanish army. However, at the third turn, Algeria became my protectorate which granted me the use of its corps of 42k men (all infantry but 1 cavalry). I moved this corps to Morocco, it's in full supply (Algeri, Oran and even Morocco itself have a depot) but the siege didn't start in 3 consecutive turns (tried with all three siege types, starve no good, fire at walls no good, charge the walls no good). I have no idea why this siege (like others I have written above) doesn't start.

You said maybe the army is not in supply but in this case it is. I say maybe the army has no general attached, maybe it's a matter of initiative (which also has to do with general missing of course) or maybe it's troop type (this corps has no artillery for example, or a container might be composed of cavalry only) or maybe it's a matter of ratio between besieged and besieger (i.e. if there are 7000 men garrisoning Tangiers there have to be X men besieging it for the siege to begin). I really don't know but it's very VERY frustrating indeed. I don't know whether this is a bug or not but I suppose you're the only one that can clear this issue which is CRITICAL to me.


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RE: Just learning - 8/31/2010 12:08:05 PM   
terje439


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You are incorrect
If you see my screenie, Paris is producing 8 labour resources and the slider is maxed. If I were to reduce the slider it would drop down untill it reached 1 labour resource which is the lowest it be in any city.

A siege is calculated (I will look up the formula when I wake up) by the besieging army "size" and the besieged army "size".
If the besieger is not of a large enough "size" the siege will not be effective.

The word size has "" because it is not all about number of men, but also what sort of troops.

Terje

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RE: Just learning - 8/31/2010 12:25:47 PM   
GShock


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You are right on the siege as I saw on the appendix and manual (light) the tables you refer to with siege sizing so everything is correct and in order, I just couldn't find out how or why and I did now.

Still... about the labor slider, the manual CONFIRMS this slider is used to affect the production speed of new units but of course I believe you and your SS. Something to pass on to the team for the patch... gone crazy to find out how to speed up the new units process but I think this is only working with docks+ships and not with new land units. Unless the barracks... .... .... .... but I don't think so.


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