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The truth about Steel Panthers "Light"

 
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The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 4:01:28 AM   
CaptRio

 

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I dont have the game yet, but you guys keep saying that this game is like Steel Panthers "LIGHT"......

My question: Can this game be modded to be as close to SP as possible?
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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 4:04:34 AM   
junk2drive


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No

It's 3D with squares. Abstract troops, step losses.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 4:21:51 AM   
junk2drive


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Here's some more

No command structure. No companies or HQs or Lt or Sgt.

No FOs, you just click for CAS or OBA when it is ready.

No ammo dumps, you get refilled every turn and unused ammo gets added to op-fire.

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Post #: 3
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 5:25:10 AM   
jomni


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For me the hardest part about molding this fame is that you need 3D models for additional units.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 8:08:08 AM   
IainMcNeil


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Yes it can. You can do anything other than add the hexes. You can make damage applied in any way you like. Basically the engine allows you to pretty much any turn based tile based game you can think of.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 2:23:26 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Yes it can. You can do anything other than add the hexes. You can make damage applied in any way you like. Basically the engine allows you to pretty much any turn based tile based game you can think of.


Now that's impressive!

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 3:00:55 PM   
junk2drive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Yes it can. You can do anything other than add the hexes. You can make damage applied in any way you like. Basically the engine allows you to pretty much any turn based tile based game you can think of.


Does this mean no expansions?

Can you add Commanders with effects on morale, accuracy, vision, etc?

< Message edited by junk2drive -- 8/7/2010 3:02:16 PM >

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 3:08:36 PM   
CaptRio

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Yes it can. You can do anything other than add the hexes. You can make damage applied in any way you like. Basically the engine allows you to pretty much any turn based tile based game you can think of.


Great!

Now would you excuse me.....I'll start praying for some real talented guys to make a Steel Panthers mod for this game

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Post #: 8
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 4:26:21 PM   
IainMcNeil


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Yes commanders can be added. The entire engine is scripted so anything you can think of can be added.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 4:55:35 PM   
junk2drive


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Wow Iain, I hope someone is up to the task

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Yes it can. You can do anything other than add the hexes. You can make damage applied in any way you like. Basically the engine allows you to pretty much any turn based tile based game you can think of.

(copied from other threads/posts)

We only have live and dead states by design but adding in damaged states such as immobilised, weapons destroyed etc could be easily done by a mod. Basically the only limit is your imagination - and time :)

Yes ammo could be easily added as could fuel, ammo dumps, supply units, fuel trucks. You could create a factory unit that could build new units. You could have resource collection. We choose not to do these things because of the design we wanted to create but all this could be done by modders without needing a single line of code added. This is what we designed the engine for - to let you mod it to be anything you want.


Xcom is the inspiration for the gameplay system we have set up. It could easily be modded with a bit of sci-fi art t do that :)

Yes commanders can be added. The entire engine is scripted so anything you can think of can be added.



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Post #: 10
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 6:24:22 PM   
rich12545

 

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Couple questions....

1.  How easy would it be to mod the Pacific Theater?

2.  What scale can be modded?  Can you mod down to individual soldiers and play infantry only?

3.  How good is the AI?

4.  What resolutions?  Does it have a native 1280x1024 for example?

5.  Will there be a demo?

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 6:33:23 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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1 - fairly involved as you would need to create assets for all the Japanese etc units
2 - There is no fixed scale really - if you wanted to have single man units you could I
3 - Currently it will come get you, stay out of your lines of fire, and other stuff. But like everything else, the AI runs from a script which can be customised as you desire
4 - Works in all resolutions
5 - A demo is in the works, but it takes quite a lot of work to make a demo that we are happy with

Cheers

Pip

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Post #: 12
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 6:39:39 PM   
junk2drive


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The AI kicks my butt a lot. Seems good at holding fire and surprising you. But it can be suckered in to traps.

I haven't seen any 3D model making info yet. You could however mod the graphics and substitute Italian or German hardware for Japan.

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Post #: 13
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 9:09:05 PM   
Rosseau

 

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This really is a fun game, fellas. And in all humility, I have everything Matrix has sold.

I was unlucky to have a DirectX problem that nixed the game editor, and Pip issued a patch in a few hours.

I love SP a la MBT. But the game is so much work sometimes and the resolution phase so long.

In BA, I have never used the save-game key. I just can't stop until I finish the scenario I'm playing.

Also, there are almost 100 attributes for each unit--all of which can be changed by modding one CSV file. And that's just the very beginning.

So it's not as light-weight as it appears. And priced very fairly, I might add.

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Post #: 14
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 9:19:02 PM   
LarryP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

This really is a fun game, fellas. And in all humility, I have everything Matrix has sold.

I was unlucky to have a DirectX problem that nixed the game editor, and Pip issued a patch in a few hours.

I love SP a la MBT. But the game is so much work sometimes and the resolution phase so long.

In BA, I have never used the save-game key. I just can't stop until I finish the scenario I'm playing.

Also, there are almost 100 attributes for each unit--all of which can be changed by modding one CSV file. And that's just the very beginning.

So it's not as light-weight as it appears. And priced very fairly, I might add.


This helps, thank you sir.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 11:01:22 PM   
Pford

 

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A poster in the Wargamer forum brought up a possible issue with the armour depiction. Apparently, the player can advance a tank from a concealed position, unleash a couple of shots on an enemy tank, and retreat back to cover without fear of opportunity fire. He called it the "armoured vehicle shuffle" and finds it gamey. Or is this a misapprehension?

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Post #: 16
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 11:11:52 PM   
IainMcNeil


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There is opportunity fire. It is a core part of the system.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/7/2010 11:35:11 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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The opportunity fire logic attempts to preserve shots when there is very little chance of doing any damage (or indeed hitting the target). It might be that in MP the opportunity fire needs to be a little more keen to open up, even at range.

Cheers

Pip

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Post #: 18
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 4:11:54 AM   
el hefe


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It might be that I am not preserving enough shots so that Opfire doesn't come into play. My opponent is hiding his tanks and then bringing them all in one at a time, popping off two shots and then moving back into hiding again. I have no choice but to sit back and take these pot shots as he vastly outnumbers my number of tanks (I'm the Germans) and if I hunt them down into these cubby hiding holes (which is what he wants), he will have my tanks at close range and at good angles. My advantages at better firepower and range are negated by having to go hunt these guys down.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine

The opportunity fire logic attempts to preserve shots when there is very little chance of doing any damage (or indeed hitting the target). It might be that in MP the opportunity fire needs to be a little more keen to open up, even at range.

Cheers

Pip



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Post #: 19
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 4:32:34 AM   
sabre1


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El Hefe,

I ran into the "exact" same problem. I guess that is what happened to the Germans in real life. They were overwhelmed by superior numbers.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 4:52:06 AM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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While I found that it worked the other way - German tanks popping in at long range and peppering me, being too far out for effective fire back. But the fact that any hit effects morale means it's pretty much never going to be bad to shoot at something that can hurt you I guess.

I think we'll want to see whether people adapt though before making any quick changes. Especially as I want to add rewind to the MP playback.

Cheers

Pip

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Post #: 21
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 8:23:06 AM   
IainMcNeil


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The issue is we need to avoid another exploit which is bringing a tank out at max range to draw fire and then charging in once all opportunity fire has been used up. The current balance is pretty good in my opinion after hundreds of test games :)

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Post #: 22
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 1:46:12 PM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pford

A poster in the Wargamer forum brought up a possible issue with the armour depiction. Apparently, the player can advance a tank from a concealed position, unleash a couple of shots on an enemy tank, and retreat back to cover without fear of opportunity fire. He called it the "armoured vehicle shuffle" and finds it gamey. Or is this a misapprehension?


There is opportunity fire. And if you do a shoot and scoot... your accuracy is diminished as opposed to static position. Quite realistic if you ask me.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 2:52:05 PM   
el hefe


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I will try a few turns on staying static and see if that is the best course of action.

Trey

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Post #: 24
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 4:28:52 PM   
rich12545

 

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One thing I'm not too crazy about is the scripting.  Sorry but to me it's a lazy way to program and it restricts things.  I'm a great fan of random scenarios but that isn't possible if each scenario needs to be scripted.  If there are enough fan made scenarios that takes the edge off so it'll be a wait and see.

On a positive note I like beer and pretzel games over grognard ones.

Another couple things I wonder about.  How large can the maps get?  And how far out can you zoom?  I really dislike games that don't allow zooming out to see a bigger picture.  This is why demos are nice.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 4:33:29 PM   
IainMcNeil


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Without scripting the AI will be predictable, once you work out how it is set up. The missions will all be samey. Scripting allows the designers to make scenarios more varied and interesting and is far more work than a generic AI. We've done both and know what works best in what situations and while the scripting makes it harder for us it makes the scenarios much more interesting.

There is a zoom and an overhead view for the big picture.

< Message edited by Iain McNeil -- 8/8/2010 4:34:19 PM >


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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 6:12:55 PM   
rich12545

 

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Thanks for answering.  So how big can the maps get?  1 mile x 1 mile?  2x2?  5x5?

And how easy is the scripting?  Could I take a map from one of the scenarios, add random forces, and borrow a script from one of the scenarios or modify one to make an unpredictable scenario?  If so, how easy would this be?

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Post #: 27
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 6:41:41 PM   
Pford

 

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quote:

And how easy is the scripting? Could I take a map from one of the scenarios, add random forces, and borrow a script from one of the scenarios or modify one to make an unpredictable scenario? If so, how easy would this be?


Suggestion: get someone, one of the beta testers, to post a scenario to get the ball rolling. Perhaps with some design commentary.

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RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 6:55:13 PM   
IainMcNeil


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The scale is abstracted. 1 tile range is intended to represent 50-100m. 2 tiles about 200m, up to 8 tiles at about 2km. This may sounds strange but it allows us to get the more subtle differentiations at shorter range without having to make ranges so high you cant see what you're shooting at on screen. This makes it very hard to give you a real ground scale. Maps can be 64x64 tiles at present but there is not really a technical reason they can't be bigger as far as I know but we didn't want to make missions like that.

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Post #: 29
RE: The truth about Steel Panthers "Light" - 8/8/2010 7:16:05 PM   
rich12545

 

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Looks like about 3-4 miles square which is plenty big for this scale imo. 

It would probably help, if a demo is unavailable, to make the manual available, maybe online in a way that can't be copied.  Something like that to get a feel for the game. 

Or maybe a couple dozen more screenies of the maps and units along with some description of how the ui works.  Like moving and firing etc.

And to repeat my previous question.....
How easy is the scripting?  Could I take a map from one of the scenarios, add random forces, and borrow a script from one of the scenarios or modify one to make an unpredictable scenario?  If so, how easy would this be?

Sorry for all the particular questions but this game looks worthwhile enough to ask them.  No gamebreakers for me yet. 

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