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Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$

 
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Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 3:41:34 AM   
aprezto


Posts: 820
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		I don't understand this result, but man do I want to bottle it.

History: this is a reconnaissance in force at Auckland, NZ. The IJA forces have just arrived on the scene and this is the intelligence gathering bombardment so that my opponent can find out what he's up against.

Granted I set up to attack him upon his arrival. So I threw everything I had at him aerially - about 100 sorties.

So these bombardment troops have suffered aerial suppression.

But this counter battery response is brutal, just brutal. Look at the number of infantry squads disabled!!!

The defensive troops weren't anything spectacular... Maybe the Auckland CD unit, with a couple of 9" guns the most stand out.

Ground combat at Auckland (115,185)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 24371 troops, 236 guns, 69 vehicles, Assault Value = 944

Defending force 39566 troops, 522 guns, 1083 vehicles, Assault Value = 1087

Japanese ground losses:
958 casualties reported
Squads: 22 destroyed, 104 disabled
Non Combat: 19 destroyed, 64 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 18 (7 destroyed, 11 disabled)





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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 5:58:21 AM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12400
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Dear Most Fearsome Smiter of Armies:

You just have to post the rest of it.

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Post #: 2
RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 6:07:40 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4427
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: online 		Wow!!!  I'm sure that was unexpected.  WTG!!!

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 9:10:37 PM   
aprezto


Posts: 820
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		Witpqs: ha ha - you devil.

i am actually a little reticent to post any more as that seems to be pulling the tail of Karma, and while I immensely enjoyed the follow-up attack, I was actually more worried about this outcome - selfishly I might add.

Why?

Well he has more aircraft and more artillery tubes in NZ, they just haven't made it to Auckland yet. So I may have won a battle but there is no way I have won the war; and cosmic karma may spank me for being smug - it is only April '42 after all.

That a counter-battery riposte can be so fearsome seems too heavy handed. In the combat replay, two of the Japanese regiments listed went from an AV ~90 to 0!!!! That seems wrong.

I was actually after a little discussion as to whether this is normal. It is certainly new to me. There were no allied casualties at all, and the Japanese bombardment was conducted by the 38th div, 2 inf regs, 2 tank regs and a mountain artillery batt...



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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 9:22:18 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 13622
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I assume you had 33rd Medium Regt with its 5.5's and an Arty unit or two with 105's ?

Also the NZ Bdes are Bde groups each one with 2 Arty Batteries of 25 pounders

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 9:28:52 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 12400
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		You have high level forts, he has no forts and is in open terrain. Continuous air attacks on the previous turns and (importantly) on the same turn must have provided disruption. As shown on the subsequent land combat (on the same turn), he had low supply and low preparation penalties.

This was probably an exceptional result, but the conditions were perfect for it, and you acted to seize upon them.

Sure if he brings enough to the party he will still prevail in NZ, but this will sting his forces and slow him down.

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Post #: 6
RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 9:41:36 PM   
aprezto


Posts: 820
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		Andy: yes, exactly that in regard to the Kiwis. Plus an independent US artillery unit with 105s, the 41st Inf Div - fully upgraded, and the 138th Inf reg, also with full compliment.

I can understand that my artillery should be very comparable, just not so utterly one sided.

Witpqs - you may have it: that the aerial bombardment through the attackers into such disarray that they couldn't mount a proper artillery attack, where my defenders were under no such duress.

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 9:50:29 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6201
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I don't know... It is kind of what I would expect from an opposed landing. Over 500 guns. Oh, maybe it was not a landing?

< Message edited by crsutton -- 8/2/2010 9:51:16 PM >

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/2/2010 11:25:44 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 13622
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		If it recurs it might be a reccurance of a pre release bug where CD units acted as Arty not willing to say its def that as james quashed it (in Beta japanese couldnt take Singers because of 15" Arty pieces killing em !!!)

Niow as this one was quashed I dont want to jump to conclusions so please monitor if it recurs when he comes back we will look at it

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/3/2010 12:07:58 AM   
aprezto


Posts: 820
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline 		Nope, not opposed landing. The IJA marched into Auckland from the South.

OK Andy, will do.

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/3/2010 7:26:16 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 11998
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I don't know... It is kind of what I would expect from an opposed landing. Over 500 guns. Oh, maybe it was not a landing?



that´s no landing, the Japanese did a bombardment attack and they were the only ones to suffer casualties from counterfire. A 80mm mortar seems to be as effective as a dozen 150mm howitzers if the mortar is what is doing the counterfiring in the game. At least that´s my experience, you always need a hundred times more and bigger guns to cause the same casualties in a bombardment like the counterfiring enemy is doing. Works for both sides it seems.

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/3/2010 7:43:59 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 3843
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I don't know... It is kind of what I would expect from an opposed landing. Over 500 guns. Oh, maybe it was not a landing?



that´s no landing, the Japanese did a bombardment attack and they were the only ones to suffer casualties from counterfire. A 80mm mortar seems to be as effective as a dozen 150mm howitzers if the mortar is what is doing the counterfiring in the game. At least that´s my experience, you always need a hundred times more and bigger guns to cause the same casualties in a bombardment like the counterfiring enemy is doing. Works for both sides it seems.



That has not much to do with 80mm mortars or counterbattery being stronger but with fort levels as witpqs said already.

Since usually the attacker is the one bombarding he is also the one receiving counterbattery fire. And with no forts against similar arty pieces of a fortyfied opponent you have the reason why it sometimes looks a bit lopsided.

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RE: Counter battery fire opens a can of whipa$$ - 8/3/2010 10:00:52 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 11998
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I don't know... It is kind of what I would expect from an opposed landing. Over 500 guns. Oh, maybe it was not a landing?



that´s no landing, the Japanese did a bombardment attack and they were the only ones to suffer casualties from counterfire. A 80mm mortar seems to be as effective as a dozen 150mm howitzers if the mortar is what is doing the counterfiring in the game. At least that´s my experience, you always need a hundred times more and bigger guns to cause the same casualties in a bombardment like the counterfiring enemy is doing. Works for both sides it seems.



That has not much to do with 80mm mortars or counterbattery being stronger but with fort levels as witpqs said already.

Since usually the attacker is the one bombarding he is also the one receiving counterbattery fire. And with no forts against similar arty pieces of a fortyfied opponent you have the reason why it sometimes looks a bit lopsided.



try putting one div each in clear terrain with no forts and set one to bombard.

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