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No LOS? No problem...

 
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No LOS? No problem... - 7/27/2010 8:38:23 PM   
xe5

 

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Used to be, if you tried to 'drop' a target dot on a spot out of the team's LOS, the dot would immediately disappear. Now, if a team cant see the spot but can reposition itself to gain LOS, it will do so to obey the player's intent. Pic shows MG team moving to gain LOS to an area fire dot dropped out of LOS. The radius a team will reposition is small (~10 meters?) but it makes for a perceptibly smarter tactical AI.




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< Message edited by xe5 -- 7/27/2010 8:39:16 PM >
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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/27/2010 11:34:37 PM   
D.Ilse


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nice feature if it's not a fluke but a true upgrade.

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 5:31:54 AM   
zon

 

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Nice! I'll have to watch for that.

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 6:06:06 AM   
Neil N

 

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You would also notice it in TLD...at least, that is where I first noticed it. Not always a good thing, as the AI will sometimes break from cover to gain the LOS

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 11:07:30 AM   
xe5

 

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Sure enough, LOS repositioning is in TLD too. re: "not always a good thing" - as a commander, if I order "Shoot at location X", and my subordinates have to break cover to do so, then the consequences are on me. The more ways a player can screw it up as a military leader, the better the war game.

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 11:35:40 AM   
Andrew Williams


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In that case you should see it in WaR with the latest beta patch too.

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 2:52:28 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

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Xe5, But if you issue an order like that wont the team start wasting ammo and lobbing grenades as soon as the target spot becomes visible? I'd just as soon issue a move order. I've noticed that you can get a team to move a small amount pretty easily which works well to reposition soldiers so that they have LOS. In the past, move orders of only a couple of meters would result in the AI canceling your order because it was already in the vicinity. But, it seems to me that small move orders work better in LSA, maybe it's just me.

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 3:20:47 PM   
xe5

 

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@Pak40 - the image showing an area fire dot is just to exemplify the new(ish) repositioning function. I'd rather be able to use this to issue what is, in effect, a combined move/fire order, rather than issue a move order, wait for it to be executed, then issue a fire order.

@A.Williams - going to be difficult enjoying the older versions after getting a taste of the new strat layer, the return of Req points, dedicated inf/veh/support plts, static BGs, and limited team slots.

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 7:47:12 PM   
TheReal_Pak40

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

@Pak40 - the image showing an area fire dot is just to exemplify the new(ish) repositioning function. I'd rather be able to use this to issue what is, in effect, a combined move/fire order, rather than issue a move order, wait for it to be executed, then issue a fire order.



Yea, I can see it coming in hand if that particular team is being close assaulted but in all other cases I would prefer just to use a move or move fast order, just simply for the pure fact that my attention be diverted to another area and then I would forget about the area fire that I had issued therefore resulting in my squad wasting ammo and precious grenades.

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 8:22:56 PM   
xe5

 

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My fault for not being clear. Rather than confusing some by using an area fire dot as an example, I should have shown this sequence where:
1) a team with no LOS to a target is...
2) given a target fire order, and
3) repositions itself to get LOS and fire at the target.

No ammo wasted.




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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 9:04:35 PM   
Andrew Williams


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quote:

@A.Williams - going to be difficult enjoying the older versions after getting a taste of the new strat layer, the return of Req points, dedicated inf/veh/support plts, static BGs, and limited team slots.



Already part way down the upgrade path  :0)

Whether it becomes official or not only time will tell.

I had a plan that included the epithet  "Leave no Child Behind",   WaR has been now endowed with tLD's advanced attributes so the next step would be the LSAism of the pair.


Can you imagine the look on Joachim Peipers face as the bridge is blown as he approaches?

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 7/28/2010 9:59:41 PM >

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 11:38:24 PM   
t001001001

 

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You didn't waste any ammo, thumb, but half your squad is dead

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 11:44:48 PM   
xe5

 

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Actually 3/4 dead. #3 is in the midst of his death spiral.

Like Neil N. says, the feature is "...not always a good thing"

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/28/2010 11:46:44 PM   
Andrew Williams


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quote:

thumb


getting all touchy feely

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 7/29/2010 12:32:11 AM   
t001001001

 

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Like Neil N. says, the feature is "...not always a good thing"

I think it's a great feature.  Sometimes I want my guys to move to the wall and engage asafp, and now I can.  If I don't want them to do that I can tell them to sneak w/o giving a target.  It's as good as adding 1 more command to my repertoire.

Kidding on the dead guys, I assume you had the game up just to screenshot the feature working, not organizing an elegant assault

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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 8/5/2010 4:21:05 AM   
mooxe


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Is this new or maybe improved, I think neither? I did a similar test in CC5 Utah mod. Some of the conditions are range and possibly command radius. My men did not have LOS when ordered to fire. They got up and moved to the other side of the building and had LOS and went to ambush mode. They only took up fire when the enemy was very close, as inf usually does on defend or ambush mode. No units left their immediate cover to gain LOS. If there was nowhere else inside the building for them to move to gain LOS, they stayed put. Did not try from hedges.

< Message edited by mooxe -- 8/5/2010 4:31:05 AM >


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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 8/5/2010 4:22:53 AM   
mooxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xe5

My fault for not being clear. Rather than confusing some by using an area fire dot as an example, I should have shown this sequence where:
1) a team with no LOS to a target is...
2) given a target fire order, and
3) repositions itself to get LOS and fire at the target.

No ammo wasted.





Xe5, in this image it looks like the unit is acting on iniative. Theres no fire dot on the enemy. They moved to the other side of the house, range was compatible with defend/ambush minimum ranges and they started to shoot. This means they are not taking up fire because you ordered them to, they are just taking aimed shots because they are in range.

< Message edited by mooxe -- 8/5/2010 4:23:33 AM >


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RE: No LOS? No problem... - 8/5/2010 2:59:30 PM   
xe5

 

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Took me a couple of tries to 'stage' that screenshot so I can rule out defend/ambush initiative. Teams under defend/ambush orders will change facing to take a target under fire, but never pick up en masse, and reposition themselves unless it they are truly acting on their own initiative.

On two separate attempts that team made its move to the other side of the building immediately after the order to fire on an enemy target was issued. The targeted (red) fire dot didnt stick but the team still repositioned to gain LOS and fire on the target.

However, after additional testing, youre correct that neither the out-of-LOS area or targeted fire repositioning is new behavior as both can be replicated in CC5.

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