What's new for TOAW 3.4

Norm Koger's The Operational Art of War III is the next game in the award-winning Operational Art of War game series. TOAW3 is updated and enhanced version of the TOAW: Century of Warfare game series. TOAW3 is a turn based game covering operational warfare from 1850-2015. Game scale is from 2.5km to 50km and half day to full week turns. TOAW3 scenarios have been designed by over 70 designers and included over 130 scenarios. TOAW3 comes complete with a full game editor.

Moderators: JAMiAM, ralphtricky

JAMiAM
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:35 am

What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by JAMiAM »

Hi all,

I know it's been forever in coming, but patch 3.4 is right around the bend, and we thought we'd tease you a bit more with the change list. The attached file is a zipped copy of the whatsnew.pdf for the upcoming patch. Enjoy.
Attachments
Whatsnew.zip
(580.43 KiB) Downloaded 2513 times
User avatar
Veers
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:04 am

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Veers »

Hallelujah!!
To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.
User avatar
Silvanski
Posts: 2507
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Belgium, residing in TX-USA

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Silvanski »

ORIGINAL: Veers

Hallelujah!!
looks like someone found religion[:D][:D]
The TOAW Redux Dude
User avatar
Panama
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:48 pm

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Panama »

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

ORIGINAL: Veers

Hallelujah!!
looks like someone found religion[:D][:D]

It was lost? [X(]
User avatar
cantona2
Posts: 3749
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: Gibraltar

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by cantona2 »

[:D]

PS the changes look great, eagerly anticipating this patch!
Will the new graphics mod come with the patch or will that be a separate DL?
1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born

User avatar
Panama
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:48 pm

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Panama »

Ok, here we go with the questions. [;)]

First off, IMO, supply rules look to be about as good as you can get them with the game without rewriting the whole thing. Great job.

I'm a bit confused about the new AR combat rules. Some examples would go a long way towards clearing the fog. Speak to me as if I were a child. [:D]
User avatar
Telumar
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:43 am
Location: niflheim

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Telumar »

Another question: Can the new supply rules and the new player turn rules be applied to ongoing PBEM games which have been started under 3.2?
User avatar
Curtis Lemay
Posts: 13846
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Houston, TX

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Hi all,

I know it's been forever in coming, but patch 3.4 is right around the bend, and we thought we'd tease you a bit more with the change list. The attached file is a zipped copy of the whatsnew.pdf for the upcoming patch. Enjoy.

Thanks, James!
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
User avatar
Curtis Lemay
Posts: 13846
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Houston, TX

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: cantona2

[:D]

PS the changes look great, eagerly anticipating this patch!
Will the new graphics mod come with the patch or will that be a separate DL?

We intend for them to be included in the patch. But, it isn't built yet, so I can't guarantee it.
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
User avatar
Curtis Lemay
Posts: 13846
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Houston, TX

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: Panama

Ok, here we go with the questions. [;)]

First off, IMO, supply rules look to be about as good as you can get them with the game without rewriting the whole thing. Great job.

I'm a bit confused about the new AR combat rules. Some examples would go a long way towards clearing the fog. Speak to me as if I were a child. [:D]

It depends upon the AR value, which is displayed in the Attack Planner (subject to Fog-of-War).

If the AR is >= 100, attacks will work just like before. (That means the ground component of the attack is at least as strong as the ground component of the defenders).

If the AR is < 100, but >= 10, there is a proportional chance that the attack could lose the artillery benefits previously accrued by artillery that supports an attack (it would have the strength of artillery that just bombards). And the defender's supply costs are divided by 10.

If the AR is < 10, there is a proportional chance that the attack could be reduced to a pure bombardment - ground component canceled and no supply cost to the defender. The attacker's artillery can even be subject to counterbattery.

So, players are motivated to try to keep the AR >= to 100. That means ant-unit tactics won't work anymore (we hope).

That's really all you need to know: Keep the AR at or above 100.
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
User avatar
Curtis Lemay
Posts: 13846
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Houston, TX

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: Telumar

Another question: Can the new supply rules and the new player turn rules be applied to ongoing PBEM games which have been started under 3.2?

Ongoing games can be switched to 3.4. But I don't think you can change the supply or turn rules during the game.

Edit: For PBEM. For hotseat or vs. the PO, you can.
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
User avatar
Telumar
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:43 am
Location: niflheim

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Telumar »

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Telumar

Another question: Can the new supply rules and the new player turn rules be applied to ongoing PBEM games which have been started under 3.2?

Ongoing games can be switched to 3.4. But I don't think you can change the supply or turn rules during the game.

Edit: For PBEM. For hotseat or vs. the PO, you can.

What i thought. Thanks Bob.
User avatar
Telumar
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:43 am
Location: niflheim

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Telumar »

.. another question about the new combined terrain/deployment defensive strength multiplier. In the What's new document there's a chart about infantry and vehicle defense strength.
But this also applies to defensive AP and AT strengths, doesn't it?
User avatar
Panama
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:48 pm

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Panama »

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: Panama

Ok, here we go with the questions. [;)]

First off, IMO, supply rules look to be about as good as you can get them with the game without rewriting the whole thing. Great job.

I'm a bit confused about the new AR combat rules. Some examples would go a long way towards clearing the fog. Speak to me as if I were a child. [:D]

It depends upon the AR value, which is displayed in the Attack Planner (subject to Fog-of-War).

If the AR is >= 100, attacks will work just like before. (That means the ground component of the attack is at least as strong as the ground component of the defenders).

If the AR is < 100, but >= 10, there is a proportional chance that the attack could lose the artillery benefits previously accrued by artillery that supports an attack (it would have the strength of artillery that just bombards). And the defender's supply costs are divided by 10.

If the AR is < 10, there is a proportional chance that the attack could be reduced to a pure bombardment - ground component canceled and no supply cost to the defender. The attacker's artillery can even be subject to counterbattery.

So, players are motivated to try to keep the AR >= to 100. That means ant-unit tactics won't work anymore (we hope).

That's really all you need to know: Keep the AR at or above 100.

[:D] Is it really that simple? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but, it seems as though I'm being told that I should always attack at 1 to 1 or better with only raw unit strengths being the qualifier. Supply, readiness and proficiency are thrown out. If I don't do this I stand to suffer penalties. Is that an incorrect assumption?

As a side note, much of the fighting in the East in 1941 was pretty much regiments vs divisions. Would that be a problem? [&:]

BTW, the new RBC escape clause? Great. Very badly needed.
JAMiAM
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:35 am

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by JAMiAM »

ORIGINAL: Panama


[:D] Is it really that simple? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but, it seems as though I'm being told that I should always attack at 1 to 1 or better with only raw unit strengths being the qualifier. Supply, readiness and proficiency are thrown out. If I don't do this I stand to suffer penalties. Is that an incorrect assumption?

To answer the bolded portion of your questions. This is incorrect. Supply, readiness and proficiency direct affect the attack and defense strengths of units. So, these still factor into the AR ratios and calculations. What is essentially happening is that a test is being made between the relative *effective* strengths of the active equipment and the outcome of that test is determining multiple effects regarding the bombardment strengths involved in the combat. Poor AR ratios will result in supported bombardments being much less effective than previously, in terms of losses taken, as well as supply usage.

In other words, we're spoiling the spoiling attacks that players became spoiled using...[:D]

ORIGINAL: Panama


As a side note, much of the fighting in the East in 1941 was pretty much regiments vs divisions. Would that be a problem? [&:]
Not necessarily. Keep in mind, again, that the effective strengths of units are essentially determined by equipment modified by readiness, proficiency, and supply. The exact combat strength formula is in the manual's appendices. So, in cases where smaller, well supplied, highly proficient, high readiness units are in combat with a larger poorly supplied, low proficiency, low readiness unit, then you're often dealing with fairly equal effective combat strengths.

Hope that helps.
User avatar
Champagne
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:12 pm

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Champagne »

Please excuse if this is an elementary or repetitive question:

Not all of the existing scenarios have been recently tweaked with a view to be working with TOAW 3.4. This is no problem. I'm please to see that so many have been tweaked.

How will 3.4 affect those existing scenarios that have not been tweaked? Will these scenarios be very different under 3.4 then are now?

Thanks.
Only the dead have seen the end of War.

-- Plato
JAMiAM
Posts: 6127
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:35 am

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by JAMiAM »

ORIGINAL: Champagne

How will 3.4 affect those existing scenarios that have not been tweaked? Will these scenarios be very different under 3.4 then are now?

My favorite answer..."it depends"...[;)]

The changes are evolutionary - not revolutionary. The difference will vary depending not only upon the nature of the scenario units TO&E, but also, in no small part, on the play styles of the people playing the game.

If you're the type of person who previously took a great deal of effort in 'gaming the system', then you may find that your ant-bombardment tactics are not very effective anymore, leading to a wastage of your play time, not to mention potentially combat rounds, too.

If you're the type of person who used less labor-intensive, but more generally 'standard' tactics, of putting the right numbers of equipment types against a certain number and type of defenders, took into account terrain, support levels, et cetera, then you will likely see some improvement in your results.
User avatar
Panama
Posts: 1362
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:48 pm

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Panama »

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Panama


[:D] Is it really that simple? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but, it seems as though I'm being told that I should always attack at 1 to 1 or better with only raw unit strengths being the qualifier. Supply, readiness and proficiency are thrown out. If I don't do this I stand to suffer penalties. Is that an incorrect assumption?

To answer the bolded portion of your questions. This is incorrect. Supply, readiness and proficiency direct affect the attack and defense strengths of units. So, these still factor into the AR ratios and calculations. What is essentially happening is that a test is being made between the relative *effective* strengths of the active equipment and the outcome of that test is determining multiple effects regarding the bombardment strengths involved in the combat. Poor AR ratios will result in supported bombardments being much less effective than previously, in terms of losses taken, as well as supply usage.

In other words, we're spoiling the spoiling attacks that players became spoiled using...[:D]

ORIGINAL: Panama


As a side note, much of the fighting in the East in 1941 was pretty much regiments vs divisions. Would that be a problem? [&:]
Not necessarily. Keep in mind, again, that the effective strengths of units are essentially determined by equipment modified by readiness, proficiency, and supply. The exact combat strength formula is in the manual's appendices. So, in cases where smaller, well supplied, highly proficient, high readiness units are in combat with a larger poorly supplied, low proficiency, low readiness unit, then you're often dealing with fairly equal effective combat strengths.

Hope that helps.

Yes, big help. Many thanks. [&o]
SMK-at-work
Posts: 3396
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 8:00 am
Location: New Zealand

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by SMK-at-work »

I just wanna say [:D]

I recognise the turn sequence & I think the supply mods from discussions a couple of years ago.

TY, TY, TYVM [:)]
Meum est propisitum in taberna mori
User avatar
Curtis Lemay
Posts: 13846
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:12 pm
Location: Houston, TX

RE: What's new for TOAW 3.4

Post by Curtis Lemay »

ORIGINAL: Telumar

.. another question about the new combined terrain/deployment defensive strength multiplier. In the What's new document there's a chart about infantry and vehicle defense strength.
But this also applies to defensive AP and AT strengths, doesn't it?

Hmm. I don't know about AT strengths. Good question.

Edit: I think armored vehicles benefit from the vehicle defense multiplier only. The statement in the manual about anti-armor defense strength multipliers is incorrect, if I remember correctly. But my memory is kind of vague about it.
My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site
Post Reply

Return to “Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III”