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Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 4:49:35 PM   
Texican

 

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I wish some company would buy Panzer General, update the code, improve the AI, tweak the campaigns to be semi-dynamic (i.e., Major Victory sends you to Scenario A, Minor to Scenaro B, Defeat to Scenario C), then release something graphically pleasing that will run on Windows 7.

Semi-dynamic campaigns where your units retain experience and can be upgraded with new equipment are very cool. Personally, I see very little demand for the single scenario or limited operational campaign games on this site. I'm sure some folks like them, but they do little for me.

Panzer General was a phenomenon for a reason and it needs to be brought back.
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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 5:04:18 PM   
MajFrankBurns

 

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It's old and decrepid and needs to be layed to rest for good like all old games. I want something NEW and BETTER not something OLD and BORROWED and BLUE!

Now if you're talking about make a REEL Squad Leader game like the Avalon Hill version and not some of these lookalike soundalikes like Close Combat remakes then I'll be all for that.

(in reply to Texican)
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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 5:47:29 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Actually it has already been done.

Its called Panzer General forever and it is found here.
http://panzercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45039

It's free and it likes Windows 7 just fine.

As for Squad Leader, good luck waiting. The electronic rights were sold and likely will be sat on till hell freezes over. You can always play REAL ASL with the VASL program of course.
But it means you get to spend something like an omg amount of cash first to get the board game.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 7:48:58 PM   
pellen

 

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There is no fun in going back in time. I have enough playing PzG (and Panzer Tactics DS) for a long time. However it would be very nice to see some (more?) newer wargames pick up some of the great user interface and campaign system ideas that makes Panzer General so addictive. Adding some more hardcore wargame mechanics would be nice (at least some supply-lines).

Unfortunately the modern games I see mostly look (user-interface-wise, not the graphics) as if they come from a pre-PG era. I rarely look beyond the screenshots. There is definitely a lot of good things about PG that should be reused more often.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 8:01:24 PM   
MajFrankBurns

 

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The Time of Wrath and Storm over the Pacific have a good look and feel of Panzer General to me. The Pacific game is exceptional and we've long needed something more beer & pretzels friendly in the Pacific WW2 department.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 10:11:56 PM   
Arctic Blast


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

I wish some company would buy Panzer General, update the code, improve the AI, tweak the campaigns to be semi-dynamic (i.e., Major Victory sends you to Scenario A, Minor to Scenaro B, Defeat to Scenario C), then release something graphically pleasing that will run on Windows 7.

Semi-dynamic campaigns where your units retain experience and can be upgraded with new equipment are very cool. Personally, I see very little demand for the single scenario or limited operational campaign games on this site. I'm sure some folks like them, but they do little for me.

Panzer General was a phenomenon for a reason and it needs to be brought back.


Well, first that company would have to purchase those rights from Ubisoft, and that wouldn't be cheap.

Then they'd be essentially selling the same game engine 15 years after it first emerged. That probably isn't a great way to make that investment back.

Besides, if you really want them, Good Old Games has started releasing some of the old SSI catalog. PG2 and PG3D are available so far.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 10:57:58 PM   
Lützow


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The free Panzer General Forever beats GoG re-releases hands down.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 10:59:39 PM   
wodin


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I wish some developer had bought ASL rights with the intention of doing something with them...instead of Paradox....I hold this against them actually....sad but true

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 11:42:00 PM   
axisandallies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

It's old and decrepid and needs to be layed to rest for good like all old games. I want something NEW and BETTER not something OLD and BORROWED and BLUE!

Now if you're talking about make a REEL Squad Leader game like the Avalon Hill version and not some of these lookalike soundalikes like Close Combat remakes then I'll be all for that.

couldn't disagre more with this statement. Old thats a given, decrepid no way, have you ever played the game major frank? I think not with statements like that.

< Message edited by axisandallies -- 7/9/2010 12:07:58 AM >


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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 11:48:56 PM   
axisandallies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

The Time of Wrath and Storm over the Pacific have a good look and feel of Panzer General to me. The Pacific game is exceptional and we've long needed something more beer & pretzels friendly in the Pacific WW2 department.

Panzer General was unique that it had "core" units, only thing that is same about these two games are the sprites. For many I know that's how they got started in war gaming classic Panzer General. Also some matrix members knock A&A and call it a simple game. But it's a great way to get younger people involed with war games.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/8/2010 11:50:51 PM   
axisandallies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

The free Panzer General Forever beats GoG re-releases hands down.

And you get like over 200 scenario vrs the 20 or so that come with the GoG game.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 12:07:09 AM   
axisandallies


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]


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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 12:13:19 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: axisandallies


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

The Time of Wrath and Storm over the Pacific have a good look and feel of Panzer General to me. The Pacific game is exceptional and we've long needed something more beer & pretzels friendly in the Pacific WW2 department.

Panzer General was unique that it had "core" units, only thing that is same about these two games are the sprites. For many I know that's how they got started in war gaming classic Panzer General. Also some matrix members knock A&A and call it a simple game. But it's a great way to get younger people involed with war games.

No axisandallies - I was not slagging the game off. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Axis and Allies. My mentioning of it being simplistic was in direct relation to a post you had made.

Nothing at all against beer and pretzels games. In fact whilst I endeavour to play more in-depth games, I always end up wasting my money on them and going back to beer and pretzels games.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 12:17:02 AM   
Perturabo


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What is Panzer General like? Is it very realistic?

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 12:45:06 AM   
axisandallies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd


quote:

ORIGINAL: axisandallies


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

The Time of Wrath and Storm over the Pacific have a good look and feel of Panzer General to me. The Pacific game is exceptional and we've long needed something more beer & pretzels friendly in the Pacific WW2 department.

Panzer General was unique that it had "core" units, only thing that is same about these two games are the sprites. For many I know that's how they got started in war gaming classic Panzer General. Also some matrix members knock A&A and call it a simple game. But it's a great way to get younger people involed with war games.

No axisandallies - I was not slagging the game off. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Axis and Allies. My mentioning of it being simplistic was in direct relation to a post you had made.

Nothing at all against beer and pretzels games. In fact whilst I endeavour to play more in-depth games, I always end up wasting my money on them and going back to beer and pretzels games.

I didn't call anyone's name out but there are many who look down on games that are old or "simple" to learn, but hard to master such as A&A. In college we spent many an hour playing this game. Simple no. Even playing Panzer General vrs Human was outstanding play, ever played the Polish in Panzer General and try to fight off the Germans vrs a human player? Not as easy or simple as one would think.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 2:09:54 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns

It's old and decrepid and needs to be layed to rest for good like all old games. I want something NEW and BETTER not something OLD and BORROWED and BLUE!

Now if you're talking about make a REEL Squad Leader game like the Avalon Hill version and not some of these lookalike soundalikes like Close Combat remakes then I'll be all for that.


You are incorrect.....A Panzer General game done correctly would be wonderful...edit: been done...

The last pc version of Squad leader(avalon hill version) that came out sucked...remember?

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 7/9/2010 2:11:49 AM >

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 3:14:12 AM   
Greybriar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

What is Panzer General like? Is it very realistic?

Commander – Europe at War looks a lot like Panzer General. You can have a look at some of PG's gameplay on YouTube.



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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 6:04:52 AM   
pellen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

The free Panzer General Forever beats GoG re-releases hands down.


And it also gives you that warm fuzzy feeling of downloading all the game contents (graphics + sounds + scenarios) illegally for free?

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 6:21:37 AM   
pellen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: axisandallies


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

The free Panzer General Forever beats GoG re-releases hands down.

And you get like over 200 scenario vrs the 20 or so that come with the GoG game.


And all of those scenarios are linked up in campaigns of the same quality as the original game? And the AI is identical, so that if I complete a campaign in Panzer General Forever that is the same as managing to complete that campaign in the original game? That last point is what has held me off from playing LGeneral (http://lgames.sourceforge.net/index.php?project=LGeneral), a free PG-clone that was around for many years before Panzer General Forever. I don't want to play a new game that looks the same but is easier or more difficult from the original game, because of the AI having a different set of bugs. I don't want PG (or any other computer game) to be demoted to a generic boardgame like chess that can be played with different AI opponents.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 7:33:31 AM   
JudgeDredd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

What is Panzer General like? Is it very realistic?

Commander – Europe at War looks a lot like Panzer General. You can have a look at some of PG's gameplay on YouTube.



I did like that game very much - but an annoyance factor quickly set in about the no stacking of air units in ground unit hexes. I mean...PG had it...why the hell were we going a stage back in design on a game well over 15 years old??

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 7:36:56 AM   
pellen

 

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I think the stacking of air units with ground units in PG2 is quite annoying. In PG1 it worked better, but I would have preferred some system that didn't require the units to be stacked in the same hex.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 8:23:54 AM   
JudgeDredd


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Only in so much as you had to change from air units to land units and vice versa to select the correct unit.

The thing is, when you are talking about hexes on the scale PG and C:EaW were at, you simply cannot leave air units out a hex because it's occupied by troops. That is one abstraction too far imo.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 11:41:01 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pellen


quote:

ORIGINAL: axisandallies


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

The free Panzer General Forever beats GoG re-releases hands down.

And you get like over 200 scenario vrs the 20 or so that come with the GoG game.


And all of those scenarios are linked up in campaigns of the same quality as the original game? And the AI is identical, so that if I complete a campaign in Panzer General Forever that is the same as managing to complete that campaign in the original game? That last point is what has held me off from playing LGeneral (http://lgames.sourceforge.net/index.php?project=LGeneral), a free PG-clone that was around for many years before Panzer General Forever. I don't want to play a new game that looks the same but is easier or more difficult from the original game, because of the AI having a different set of bugs. I don't want PG (or any other computer game) to be demoted to a generic boardgame like chess that can be played with different AI opponents.



No..it is way better..The AI is actually more than semi-competent.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 12:37:48 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

I wish some company would buy Panzer General, update the code, improve the AI, tweak the campaigns ...


And change the play from IGOUGO to WEGO.


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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 4:57:01 PM   
Greybriar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

Commander – Europe at War looks a lot like Panzer General. You can have a look at some of PG's gameplay on YouTube.


I did like that game very much - but an annoyance factor quickly set in about the no stacking of air units in ground unit hexes. I mean...PG had it...why the hell were we going a stage back in design on a game well over 15 years old??


+1

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/9/2010 8:47:28 PM   
pellen

 

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I would prefer to have the air-units only stack on the airfields, and send them on missions always ending back at some airfield. So still some stacking, but not like in PG2, where there is no clear indication if I'm in air mode or not before I click a hex. At least in PG1 there was a very good visual difference when you toggled between air units and ground units.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/10/2010 12:31:04 AM   
Obsolete


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quote:

The last pc version of Squad leader(avalon hill version) that came out sucked...remember?


That may be quite an understatement.



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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/10/2010 1:11:09 AM   
Perturabo


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IIRC it wasn't based on Squad Leader at all.

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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/10/2010 1:28:39 AM   
Obsolete


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IIRC it was another game that was pretty sub-standard even for the time.  They decided to change the game title to Squad Leader to inflate sales.  This tactic had been done with many Hasbro titles in the past.  Works great for initial sales.  But not so great for the clients.






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RE: Bring back Panzer General - 7/10/2010 11:12:45 PM   
dudalb

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Actually it has already been done.

Its called Panzer General forever and it is found here.
http://panzercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45039

It's free and it likes Windows 7 just fine.

As for Squad Leader, good luck waiting. The electronic rights were sold and likely will be sat on till hell freezes over. You can always play REAL ASL with the VASL program of course.
But it means you get to spend something like an omg amount of cash first to get the board game.



Squad Leader has had a long,sad, history of coming to the computer. Two very sucessful WW2 Computer games...Close Combat and Combat Mission started life at Avalon Hill as Computer Squad Leader. AH, for whatever reason, scrapped CLose Combat, and Atomic Games decided to continue with the system on it's own , and Avalon Hill went belly up when what was to be Combat Mission was in development, and, as with CC, the company desiging the game continued on it's own.
You have to think that the confusion that was Avalon Hill in the last few years of it's life was a major reason why TWO game systems that went on to be very sucessful failed at AH.
There was an actual Squad Leader computer game put out by Hasbro, but the less the said about that Turkey the better. It was not even at squad level, but was a recycling of the Old SSI Soldiers At War. Not a bad system, but NOT good for SL by any means.
BTW Panzer General 2 is available for sale and modified to run at a modern computer at www.gog.com.

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