Ship scaling issue when modding

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Igard
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Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

I've always noticed some scaling problems with some of the modded ships I've used. I think I've figured out what the problem is.

It looks like slim, narrow ships are scaled bigger and broad, bulky ships are scaled smaller. I noticed this after trying to mod a borg cube into the game. The borg cube should be massive but it is hardly the size of a frigate.

If anyone could test this out for me. I've tested on 2 different computers so far.

The borg cube is attached.
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VarekRaith
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by VarekRaith »

ORIGINAL: Igard

I've always noticed some scaling problems with some of the modded ships I've used. I think I've figured out what the problem is.

It looks like slim, narrow ships are scaled bigger and broad, bulky ships are scaled smaller. I noticed this after trying to mod a borg cube into the game. The borg cube should be massive but it is hardly the size of a frigate.

If anyone could test this out for me. I've tested on 2 different computers so far.

The borg cube is attached.
Yep, confirmed. Not only with the ship you provided, but by my own modded ships.
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

Thanks, mate. I can't find a workaround for this either.[:(]
caerr
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by caerr »

This problem also appears with default ships. If you design a ship with a bulky (a station for example) graphic it will appear smaller than the slim ships of same design size.
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drillerman
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by drillerman »

I always make every png image the same size say 400 x 400 and the game seems to re scale them automatically.
Huh?
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

Did you get the borg cube to work drillerman? I just tried a 400x400 png in a seperate mod folder and it made no difference.

If this is only affecting some people then it gives me hope that it's just a bug and not by design.
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

I'm bumping this as it hasn't yet been resolved with the expansion.
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elliotg
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by elliotg »

This behavior is by design.

The total non-transparent area of pixels in your source image is used to calculate the relative size of the ship or base image in the game, so that ships or bases that are larger in size are drawn larger. This is not related to width and height of the image, but rather to total number of non-transparent pixels in the image.
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

Thanks for explaining, Elliot.

From what I understand, this means that there's no way to create a cube shaped vessel that is large, because there aren't enough transparent pixels. It will always show up small.

Perhaps a new mod feature will be required to create my borg cube. Another entry in the races.txt file to define how large a race builds their ships. That makes sense from a xeno-design point of view. If an alien species is 10ft tall, they would perhaps design ships with more head room.
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Shark7 »

ORIGINAL: Igard

Thanks for explaining, Elliot.

From what I understand, this means that there's no way to create a cube shaped vessel that is large, because there aren't enough transparent pixels. It will always show up small.

Perhaps a new mod feature will be required to create my borg cube. Another entry in the races.txt file to define how large a race builds their ships. That makes sense from a xeno-design point of view. If an alien species is 10ft tall, they would perhaps design ships with more head room.

I do have to wonder though if you rendered the image smaller (IE zoomed out a bit) so that the end result would be more transperant pixels would it affect the outcome.

Say instead of taking up 90% of the image with opaque pixels, what if you reduced that to say...70%?
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

Shark7, you wouldn't believe how many different methods I've tried to work around this. I've even gone down to about 30% of the image canvas.

What results IIRC is a larger triangle shape around the ship in-game, but the actual pixels of the ship remain the same size.

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Shark7
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Shark7 »

Ah well this will have to be something fixed by coding then.
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

It certainly seems so. The problem is only really obvious when your working with unusually shaped ship images. So it's probably quite a low priority unluckily for the Borg fans. [:(]

I think the best way to get around this is for a ship size parameter to be added to the races.txt file.
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Shark7
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Shark7 »

ORIGINAL: Igard

It certainly seems so. The problem is only really obvious when your working with unusually shaped ship images. So it's probably quite a low priority unluckily for the Borg fans. [:(]

I think the best way to get around this is for a ship size parameter to be added to the races.txt file.

Lucky me, cause I don't want to be assimilated. [:'(]

However, I ran into this problem with my custom mining ship and had to redesign it to be more slender...not only did it scale it smaller, it cause the engine flames to show up in the wrong places. You'll note it is fixed in the release version, but the ship had to go through a major make-over.
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by ehsumrell1 »

Damn......I guess the Borg got assimilated! [:@]

Probably by the Shakturi!
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lordxorn
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by lordxorn »

Here is an image to help illustrate our point Elliot.

My ship sizes here were
Escort (Gunboat) 70
Frigate (Assault Frigate) 250
Destroyer (Nebulon B)500
Cruiser (Mon Calamari Cruiser)750
Capital (Home One) 1100

The Nebulon is larger than the Mon Calamari Cruiser, so according to your explanation if I increase the canvas size around the nebulon it should scale better? Also note that Home One capital ship is not much larger at 1100 size.
Image
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

The game seems to ignore canvas size and use only the outline of the ship, so making a larger canvas with more trasparent pixels doesn't have any effect. I wonder if there's a reason for this.

I also tried increasing the canvas size around the Borg Cube and added 4 pixels at each corner. This resulted in  a larger triangle size with the ship's outline remaining the same.

Lordxorn, since we're after opposite things here, I'm trying to make the Cube bigger, you're trying to make the nebulon smaller, I wonder if adding 4 opaque pixels to the corners of the canvas will help you?
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lordxorn
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by lordxorn »

So your saying just add some dark opaque pizels to the blank corners of the Nebulon to trick the engine into making it smaller? I will try it now.
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

Apologies, lordxorn, I tested this back in July so my memory isn't quite clear on the results. I just tested this again with the opaque pixels in each corner and it had no noticable effects. EDIT: Tried it again with more pixels, this time it made the triangle larger, check the results in the following posts.

That's what I tried for the Borg cube, but the only effect was making the triangle around the ship bigger.

It's worth a try with the Nebulon, but I don't think there's any way to make the ships scale to our liking. Then again I'm a relative noob at this stuff, so maybe someone can help.
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Igard
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RE: Ship scaling issue when modding

Post by Igard »

Here's an example of the problem with the Borg Cube.

The Borg Cube image is 500x500 pixels with a small transparent border only a few pixels wide.

The Borg Cube is a cruiser, size 298. The Mechanoid Frigate alongside is 150 in size.

Image
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