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RE: Not Ready For Prime Time

 
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RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/16/2010 11:33:41 PM   
spelk


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From: United Kingdom
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The problem I'm having with the tutorial is that it only takes one slight misunderstanding and the tutorial becomes stalled, so you have quit and start it up again, and attempt to guess at what is being said to you. Also having the tutorial move on after an End Turn action, means that you are almost waiting in anticipation to see if what you tried to do worked, so that the tutorial info box pops up after you press the magical End Turn button.

Its a bit of a flaky way to deliver tutorial content to be honest. The first information the user is presented with, is how to begin the tutorial they have to press End Turn. Doesn't seem to flow with the natural way of being tutored.

I've come a cropper at about the same point as tgb, in that I try to make an attack with two units at once, and I must've clicked the wrong thing in the sequence expected, because the enemy unit disappeared and the End Turn button didn't result in any more tutorial information.

My advice would be to get someone with English as their native language and make a video showing the user what has to be done to perform certain actions, like attacking with two units. Then release those as additional support for the game. It raise the complete newbies up to a level of competancy and familiarisation with your UI.

Trying to help here, rather than slate the game.. I really haven't got far enough into the game to make a judgement on it, but if the beginners tutorial is leaving me stranded in a scenario, not knowing what next to do, perhaps it needs some tweaking?

_____________________________

spelk @ sugarfreegamer.com

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 31
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/16/2010 11:59:28 PM   
doomtrader


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From: Poland
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What about several short videos (like 20-30 seconds), presenting individual steps from tutorial or other game features?
I think it would be clear and easy enough to reproduce for everybody, also it should avoid watching few minutes just to find one interesting option.

It's already 1:00 AM here and we really need some sleep from time to time, so what would you say if we will start since tomorrow?
In the meantime you could post what causes you most problems and we will start with that.

(in reply to spelk)
Post #: 32
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/17/2010 12:59:44 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Texican

I have said before and will say again, foreign game companies (really ANY game companies) should pay $5,000 to a U.S. English major to go through the spelling and grammer of both the game and any rules manual.

This would be well worth the value, I think.



I'd do it for a free copy and my name in lights...So would a few others here, I daresay...

(in reply to Texican)
Post #: 33
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/17/2010 1:07:50 AM   
rosseau

 

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Joined: 9/13/2009
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I have to agree with Spelk on the tutorial. I had three "stalls" and gave up. Maybe I should have saved the game!
I wanted to get a better handle on naval movement. I read the manual too, but it is just very confusing to me. I sort of wish they just made it hex-by-hex instead of all the boxes and convoluted stuff.

I have all three games in the series, but a newcomer is not going to be too happy, imo.

Now for the positive:
--Love the new Pacific focus
--Love the ground combat and info boxes, and the naval combat is nice, despite my not understanding it yet
--Modding my butt off. The new Editor is not self-explanatory, but who needs it? Just do some xml work.
--Best of all, Wasteland is AWESOME when it comes to support and patches.

I am happy with my $50 investment, despite some issues.

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 34
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/17/2010 1:18:17 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

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From: Buffalo,ny
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomokatu

apathetic lurker stuttered:
quote:

Every one and thier grandmother
(Emphasis added)  Case in point!



I am a foreigner...I still spell better than 90 percent of native born Americans, and as far as I remember, I before E except after C..Or have things changed in the years since I left the cozy confines of my collidge edumication?

I know there are exceptions to the whole I,E and C thing but don't expect me to remember over 20 years ago without using cheat sheets or crib notes.

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 6/17/2010 1:20:38 AM >

(in reply to Tomokatu)
Post #: 35
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/17/2010 5:34:14 AM   
Razz


Posts: 2517
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From: CaLiForNia
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OK OK it is very simple..

To move a ship or fleet click on the Circle.

Amenu pops up.

Choose the fleet or individual ship.

Click move.

ZOOM OUT, please.

any circle you see is where you can go.

All ships move two.

Pretty easy.. Count 1,2

plan count 1 2

Remember a Port is a circle, so that is one move.

If your in a port, 1 to sea, 1 to adjacant see.

If in a sea, move to port in sea zone, or move one sea zone and then into a port.

OR if in a sea, move two sea zones.

EXCEPTION

Did you read the manual?

Hint: Ships can only enter certain size ports.

Check the manual.

(in reply to apathetic lurker)
Post #: 36
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/17/2010 1:16:27 PM   
spelk


Posts: 289
Joined: 10/15/2003
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader
What about several short videos (like 20-30 seconds), presenting individual steps from tutorial or other game features?
I think it would be clear and easy enough to reproduce for everybody, also it should avoid watching few minutes just to find one interesting option.


That sounds ideal to me. Give a step by step, blow by blow account of how to control the game in a visual format thats not too time and labour intensive to produce. Hopefully they could ease a lot of newcomers into the game better than the current slightly fastidious tutorial does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader
In the meantime you could post what causes you most problems and we will start with that.


My problem is that the tutorial doesn't really explain the basic mechanisms for troop manipulation, movement and attacking etc. It seems to stumble and fumble a bit on just getting the pure mechanics over. I've got Time of Wrath, but haven't played it to any great extent, so I'm coming at SoP more or less completely fresh. I'll obviously set aside some time to look through the manual, but as players fire the game up in excitement, the precarious wall that is the current tutorial is more of a hindrance than a help to getting to know the game. As tgb said, first impressions count.

_____________________________

spelk @ sugarfreegamer.com

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Post #: 37
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/17/2010 8:06:10 PM   
Tomokatu


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apathetic lurker protested:
quote:

as far as I remember, I before E except after C.


Aha!
I see the problem. Somebody has taught you only PART of the mnemonic.
The whole chant goes "Where the dipthong says "ee", it's i before e except after c". You should be OK from here on.

_____________________________

For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction

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Post #: 38
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 12:30:35 AM   
rosseau

 

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Thanks for the tutorial, Razz! I knew about the port limits, but needed that step-by-step that the manual does not provide. (It should).

thanks again

(in reply to Tomokatu)
Post #: 39
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 1:48:27 PM   
Henri

 

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I bought the game last night and started the tutorial before playing a bit with the campaign. This has to be one of the poorest tutorials I have seen. A bad sign is that the tutorial begins by telling you to read the manual first....

I did not read the manual first, and I shouldn't have to to for the tutorial. Then the tutorial early on tells me to do a number of separate things: click on the cans, buy two units, click on the tank, deploy one unit; OK, so I click on the screen and it disappears so I can follow the orders. There is no way to get this screen back!It say is if you get confused, to restart the tutorial...

So I click on the cans and buy one infantry unit. Hmmmm...now what was the other unit I was supposed to buy? No way to find out so I buy an armored unit (it was supposed to be an infantry corps). Now I remember that it said to click on the tank icon, so I do, and a screen appears. I manage to find the list of units that I bought, and I see a "deploy" button at the bottom, so I press that. Oops...now where did it way to deploy the unit? Darn bad memory.... I deploy it to a city at random which happens to be the correct one, click the next turn button and the next orders screen appears.

It says to select my infantry then to press the "attack" button. There is no such button on the screen and I have no clue where the hell it is. It is under the "units" icon, but the tutorial does not say that. Is it so difficult to write "Open the unit icon on the top right (one of the 4 buttons there with stars) and press the "attack" button which is the third from the top on tghe right"?

After resarting the tutorial a number of times after getting lost, I finally make it to the invasion part, but after transp[orting my troops to invade an enemy city, I am unable to get any orders screen. Is the scenario finished? Did I do something wrong? Did I forget something? I have no Idea, but that was enough for me.

I didn't buy Time of Wrath after trying the demo because there was no order of battle and I could find no way to figure out which units I had and where they were, but this game looks a lot better. Let's hope the tutorial is not an indication of the quality of the game.

Henri

(in reply to rosseau)
Post #: 40
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 2:04:40 PM   
vonRocko

 

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It is the worst tutorial I ever saw, but the game is very good. I never could finish the tutorial, but I have played the other game, so I had a general Idea. The manual is not much better. I feel bad for the new player, and I hope they are not discouraged because it is a fun game.

(in reply to Henri)
Post #: 41
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 3:41:55 PM   
gwgardner

 

Posts: 3195
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

It is the worst tutorial I ever saw, but the game is very good. I never could finish the tutorial, but I have played the other game, so I had a general Idea. The manual is not much better. I feel bad for the new player, and I hope they are not discouraged because it is a fun game.


That's just ridiculous. I played most of the tutorial, and it couldn't be more straightforward. My only complaint about it is that it is too long. I'd like to see it in chunks. But now that Doomtrader is considering doing some tutorial videos, that will do the trick nicely.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 42
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 4:17:38 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 3328
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomokatu

apathetic lurker protested:
quote:

as far as I remember, I before E except after C.


Aha!
I see the problem. Somebody has taught you only PART of the mnemonic.
The whole chant goes "Where the dipthong says "ee", it's i before e except after c". You should be OK from here on.


Actually it goes like this: "I" before "E", except after "C" and when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh!

(in reply to Tomokatu)
Post #: 43
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 6:13:00 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1129
Joined: 11/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

It is the worst tutorial I ever saw, but the game is very good. I never could finish the tutorial, but I have played the other game, so I had a general Idea. The manual is not much better. I feel bad for the new player, and I hope they are not discouraged because it is a fun game.


That's just ridiculous. I played most of the tutorial, and it couldn't be more straightforward. My only complaint about it is that it is too long. I'd like to see it in chunks. But now that Doomtrader is considering doing some tutorial videos, that will do the trick nicely.

You probably had a hand in writing it. The tutorial is a disaster.

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 44
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 6:24:45 PM   
mbar


Posts: 447
Joined: 3/17/2010
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"It's "I" before "E" except after "C" and when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh,
and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May,
and you'll always be wrong NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!"
--Brian Regan

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 45
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 6:43:30 PM   
kentcol

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko


quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

It is the worst tutorial I ever saw, but the game is very good. I never could finish the tutorial, but I have played the other game, so I had a general Idea. The manual is not much better. I feel bad for the new player, and I hope they are not discouraged because it is a fun game.


That's just ridiculous. I played most of the tutorial, and it couldn't be more straightforward. My only complaint about it is that it is too long. I'd like to see it in chunks. But now that Doomtrader is considering doing some tutorial videos, that will do the trick nicely.

You probably had a hand in writing it. The tutorial is a disaster.



+1

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 46
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 6:58:58 PM   
SeaMonkey

 

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and....excepting for, ...neither, foreign, leisure, seized, counterfeit, forfeit, leisure....and there are probably others

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 47
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/18/2010 10:07:28 PM   
Tomokatu


Posts: 454
Joined: 2/27/2006
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quote:

and....excepting for, ...neither, foreign, leisure, seized, counterfeit, forfeit, leisure....and there are probably others

In none of which does the diphthong get pronounced as "ee". The diphthong as "ay" is only one special case of the whole class of "ie" diphthongs and thus the mnemonics which concentrate ONLY on that sound miss out the very important range of sounds which SeaMonkey has evidenced.

Thank you for your support, SeaMonkey (I shall wear it always!)
 
I stick by the original mnemonic which I posted starting "Where the diphthong says "ee"....etc"



_____________________________

For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction

(in reply to SeaMonkey)
Post #: 48
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/19/2010 11:41:02 PM   
PDiFolco

 

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Hey guys, I'd like to see how you'd perform in Polish !
Frankly, "substraction" or such may not be good English, but you should be able to guess what it means !!

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 49
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/19/2010 11:47:00 PM   
Anraz

 

Posts: 786
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:

Hey guys, I'd like to see how you'd perform in Polish !


Let`s read: Chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie w Szczebrzeszynie. ;)

quote:

Frankly, "substraction" or such may not be good English, but you should be able to guess what it means !


Believe or not but this slipped trough despite English native speakers checked our texts.

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 50
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/20/2010 11:35:11 AM   
PDiFolco

 

Posts: 1136
Joined: 10/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anraz

quote:

Hey guys, I'd like to see how you'd perform in Polish !


Let`s read: Chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie w Szczebrzeszynie. ;)

quote:

Frankly, "substraction" or such may not be good English, but you should be able to guess what it means !


Believe or not but this slipped trough despite English native speakers checked our texts.

I wasn't talking to WI people lol, but those imperialistic spoiled US kids that lament for a misspelling :o !
Even proofread, there are always errors that slip in, it can be easily corrected in a patch.

(in reply to Anraz)
Post #: 51
RE: Not Ready For Prime Time - 6/20/2010 11:17:14 PM   
Tomokatu


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Joined: 2/27/2006
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quote:

Let`s read: Chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie w Szczebrzeszynie. ;)

Not to be attempted by anybody with ill-fitting dentures! In print, it looks like an attempt to recite Shakepeare by somebody with a mouthful of bees. It's probably an excellent way to mimic the effects of a hangover without doing all that drinking.

I'll stick to the drinking!

Thank you for your contribution. (Shudder!)

_____________________________

For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction

(in reply to PDiFolco)
Post #: 52
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