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Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War

 
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Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/6/2010 6:12:31 AM   
maurader

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Well I am still on the fence about buying this (because of the high price).
But since I am a game tweaker and this game has much more editing tools than the previous editions, I was kind of wondering about the full possibilities of the tools.

In particular the Estab editor seems to be the big thing (since the Map maker and Scenario editor was present in the previous edition).

I am personally tired of the WWII thing and would be interested in the capabilities of the tools to create Modern conflicts or Civil War conflicts with the engine.

If I understand it correctly, the Estab editor should allow us to modify any unit values to create battles from any era.

Are the graphics and sound modable to create a Modern or Civil War conflict?

I am thinking the only problem with a Civil War modification is that the AI would still treat the conflict like WWII (i.e. troops would not form up in battle lines to fight).

Post #: 1
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/6/2010 7:06:41 AM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16454
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: online 		maurader,

Yes you can create the units for any period but the engines doctrine remains west front WW2. So for a civil war game you won't see niceley spaced out battle lines of the period. That would require the writing of specific doctrine to handle it.

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Post #: 2
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/6/2010 3:51:45 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2448
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maurader

I am thinking the only problem with a Civil War modification is that the AI would still treat the conflict like WWII (i.e. troops would not form up in battle lines to fight).


Regrettably, you think right.

There are several really great, RT, ACW games around, such as Sid Meier's Gettysburg and the "Take Command" family of games. Like naval warfare games, programing ACW games is relatively easy, because units move and fight in fairly simple geometric patterns, lines and columns. This Bulge game is actually a lot more sophisticated, but that doesn't mean that it can just be ported over to the ACW, either. In effect, it'll have to be dumbed-down, somewhat, to make that possible.


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Post #: 3
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/6/2010 6:25:50 PM   
maurader

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replys

Is the doctrine editable in BFTB?
Or is it hard coded?

So a Modern day type modification would be easier to do because the doctrine is similar to WWII.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 4
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/6/2010 6:58:12 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I was thinking about creating a WWI scenario with bands of trench system terrain giving excellent concealment and cover from small arms fire, to stationary units, seperated by areas of poor cover where units would be easily pinned and routed unless supported.

However, I didn't think the game engine would really model the problems of communication and interdiction of supply experienced by forward troops, accross these beaten zones. In particular, it would be too easy for the player to take direct control of unit in emergencies which in "RL" the commanders would either be unaware of or unable to do anything about, until to late. Also, it isn't in the AI's preset doctrine, and would be exhausting for the player, to orchestrate the elaborate artillery fire plans and trench hops that marked battles like the Somme.

I'm sure the engine could model post-WWII symetrical conflicts such as parts of the Arab-Israeli Wars, parts of Korea, or the Falklands quite well. These conflicts are more along the lines of WWII battles were the commander had more direct control over the battle and close support was more available at the company and battalion level than in WWI.

< Message edited by Chief Rudiger -- 6/6/2010 7:00:05 PM >

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 5
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/6/2010 7:36:39 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


Posts: 2448
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

I was thinking about creating a WWI scenario with bands of trench system terrain giving excellent concealment and cover from small arms fire, to stationary units, seperated by areas of poor cover where units would be easily pinned and routed unless supported.

However, I didn't think the game engine would really model the problems of communication and interdiction of supply experienced by forward troops, accross these beaten zones. In particular, it would be too easy for the player to take direct control of unit in emergencies which in "RL" the commanders would either be unaware of or unable to do anything about, until to late. Also, it isn't in the AI's preset doctrine, and would be exhausting for the player, to orchestrate the elaborate artillery fire plans and trench hops that marked battles like the Somme.

I'm sure the engine could model post-WWII symetrical conflicts such as parts of the Arab-Israeli Wars, parts of Korea, or the Falklands quite well. These conflicts are more along the lines of WWII battles were the commander had more direct control over the battle and close support was more available at the company and battalion level than in WWI.


Have you taken a look at the estab editor and its ability to modify the different formations, like line and column? It may be that altering those values would serve to make the game more "WWI-ish," forcing tighter concentration of troops, for instance. I dunno, though. I'm just scratching the surface of the whole deal.


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Post #: 6
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/6/2010 7:55:08 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I thought about it, seeing as formations seem different in BFTB than they do in COTA. The most obvious example i think is "Successive Lines" where in BFTB three infantry companies will move almost as one whereas in COTA they seem a bit more spaced out, both between companies and each companies footprint in itself. Not having an Estab editor to look at the values in COTA i can't be sure, but thats what it looks like.

What i really want to do i use BFTB's engine to model a simpler, more sedate Infantry based conflict, without invulnerable Tigers charging about or a myriad of advanced weapons. Some of the best scenarios in COTA i felt were the Greek/Italian mountain ones, like Tempe Gorge Crisis, or the Narvik, where it was really important to watch your infantry's fatigue and where small numbers of mechanised troops really made a difference.

(in reply to Prince of Eckmühl)
Post #: 7
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/8/2010 6:22:52 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Civil War?  If you mean American Civil War then we already have the game Take Command.
It plays in a similar way to BftB.

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Post #: 8
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 6/19/2010 10:56:20 PM   
Dunhill_BKK


Posts: 80
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Tasmania
Status: offline 		I was feeling the same as marauder, I'd like to use this engine for other eras. I really like the way this game feels, and it runs on my netbook. TC2M and Scourge of War are great games, but I think this engine and UI would be really enjoyable to use.

However, I know Panther games have limited resources and are unlikely to modify the engine to produce such a game in the near future.

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Post #: 9
RE: Editing Tool Possibilities - Modern/Civil War - 7/14/2010 4:04:01 AM   
Swamp_Yankee


Posts: 938
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Connecticut, U.S.
Status: offline 		I'd love to see a similar game set in modern / near future, I suspect for the same reasons it would need to be a total re-write doctrine-wise.

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Post #: 10
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