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RE: Take the BFTB performance test!

 
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RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/7/2010 4:55:11 AM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		The 600 unit scenario wasn't really any engine or scenario limitation. It just happens to correspond to the largest scenario available in BFTB.

I suppose you could create a 1200 unit scenario, but I suspect that there might four fold drop in the simulation rate based on current results.

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Post #: 31
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/7/2010 7:31:41 AM   
hlhudson74

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Cary, NC USA
Status: offline 		Mark,

BFTB250: 126 Simulated Minutes
BFTB600: 36 Simulated Minutes

COTA250: 121 Simulated Minutes

HTTR250: 177 Simulated Minutes

PC @ Work
Intel E8400 Dual Core @ 3GHz
4GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 290 with 256MB RAM
Windows XP SP3


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Post #: 32
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/8/2010 10:08:36 PM   
PirateJock


Posts: 448
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: North West, UK
Status: offline 		As a compare and contrast ...

CPU - Intel Core Duo 2.4GHz
RAM - 4MB
Graphic - Mobile Intel 965 Express
OS - WinVista Home

BftB250 = 83
BftB600 = 29
CotA250 = 87

Samsung NC10
CPU - Intel Atom N270 1.6GHz
RAM - 2MB
Graphic - Mobile Intel 945 Express
OS - WinXP Home

BftB250 = 32
BftB600 = 8
CotA250 = not on machine

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Post #: 33
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/8/2010 10:17:36 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		Well, for those of you who don't have any of the games and have very low spec systems, you should see:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2479970

I have concluded that despite HTTR being the oldest game of the series, COTA is actually the best game to get for a CPU anemic PC. Not so much because of the simulation rate, but rather because of the scenario mix which it contains.

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Post #: 34
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/8/2010 10:26:55 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1052
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From: Central Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Well, for those of you who don't have any of the games and have very low spec systems, you should see:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2479970

I have concluded that despite HTTR being the oldest game of the series, COTA is actually the best game to get for a CPU anemic PC. Not so much because of the simulation rate, but rather because of the scenario mix which it contains.


Are you supposed to run your tests at the fastest rate(>>>) or the normal rate(>>)?

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Tony

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Post #: 35
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/8/2010 10:28:15 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		Tony,

See post #1 of this thread for what you need to do.

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Post #: 36
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/8/2010 10:38:48 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1052
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From: Central Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Tony,

See post #1 of this thread for what you need to do.


That's what I thought. I ran the HTTR test scenario on my laptop and the results were almost identical to my old desktop!


HTTR 250

Intel Core i3-330m Processor
2.13ghz, 3mb L3 cache
Intel Graphics shared memory
4 gig of ram

176 minutes!

I'm surprised. I thought that my new laptop would blow away my six year old desktop!!!

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Post #: 37
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/8/2010 10:47:56 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		That does seem to be a pretty high score. I think you better treat your desktop with some respect!

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Post #: 38
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/8/2010 10:53:55 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline
quote:


Actually, based on more analysis a normalized figure for average BFTB unit count would appear to be closer to 150 than 250. Additionally, as a normalized figure even that number is high, since in most of the larger scenarios, it is only by the 50-66% mark that so many units are present on the map.


Oops ... actually, the 250 number is reasonable, since when I got the normalized units I had divided the figure by 2 to reflect just the human player side. Given the arrival of reinforcement lag, 250 is probably a decent approximation.

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 6/9/2010 12:19:35 AM >

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Post #: 39
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/9/2010 4:32:44 PM   
Son_of_Montfort


Posts: 1373
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Mark, I'm quite certain you meant 4 GB of RAM in your systems specs posted in the second post. Otherwise I would say the game is very much not RAM dependent... 

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Post #: 40
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/9/2010 4:56:38 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		Right you are.

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Post #: 41
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/9/2010 5:09:14 PM   
Son_of_Montfort


Posts: 1373
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Ok here are mine:

Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 2.0 Ghz
4 GB Ram
nVidia 8600M 256MB
Windows 7

B250 = 83
B600 = 24

Analysis:
B250 ran at a little over a minute a second, and would probably be pretty workable. The B600 scenario might take a while to run, however. I re-ran the tests and turned the AA Map option off, increased and decreased zoom, changed the priority of the game to Highest, and put my Anti-Virus (Norton's Internet Security 10) in Sleep mode - all with negligible effect (a change from 83 to 85 was the most I saw). I also turned off the "Show surrendered/lost units" options - also negligible effect.

Sigh... if only I had the coin for an upgrade from this laptop to a proper desktop with a newer CPU.   

Strangely, PirateJock and I have similar systems - his CPU is a little faster - our B250 numbers are the same and the increase is in the B600 number. How odd.

< Message edited by Son_of_Montfort -- 6/9/2010 5:10:22 PM >

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Post #: 42
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/9/2010 5:18:08 PM   
Son_of_Montfort


Posts: 1373
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Just for fun, I ran the tests on my native resolution of 1440x900.

The effect was also negligible - in fact I improved slightly on the B600 test, although dropping in the B250 test.

At 1440x900:
B250 = 78
B600 = 25

The variance in the test makes me wonder if simulation speed is also contingent upon hits/misses (it may slow down when the "explosions" and casualties are processed) different movement orders, or other "hidden" factors.

SoM


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"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

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Post #: 43
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/9/2010 5:23:50 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		It is pretty clear that unit count is one of the key drivers of performance and that clock speed is the other key factor.

Granted there may be yet other factors (some of them already noted here). However, by everyone using the same methodology to test and mainly looking at relative relationships as opposed absolutes, I think this provides reasonable estimations of what people can expect.

My next project will be to relate demo performance to retail performance. STAY TUNED

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Post #: 44
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/9/2010 8:15:32 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		See first post with red highlight "MORE NEW STUFF".

Included a means to extrapolate performance from the BFTB demo to the BFTB retail game.

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RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/10/2010 7:49:58 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1052
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		So you can load BFTB120 into the Demo game and run it?

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Tony

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Post #: 46
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/10/2010 7:56:50 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		No, it will not be possible to use retail files with the demo or demo files with retail.

However, the provided demo scenario will be the St. Vith tutorial. That scenario clocks in at 120 total units when all the reinforcements have arrived.

So, I created a BFTB120 (retail) save game benchmark.

If you follow the methodology I have documented with the demo, you should be able to create your own BFTB120 (demo) figure. Then, based on the ratios I published here, you should be able to infer what type of performance you are going to see with the retail game on your particular machine for BFTB250 and BFTB600.

I hope that is clear.

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RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/10/2010 8:08:54 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1052
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		Ok, So I run the demo to the amount of time that you posted (3days 10hrs.) Then run it for 1 minute of real time and see how much simulated time runs. Then match it against your numbers?

Am I close?

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Post #: 48
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/10/2010 8:16:32 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		You then take your demo result and multiply it by the factors I have provided in order to get an idea of how the retail game will run for you. (The other thing which you personally can do is use the HTTR250 benchmark to infer what would be the BFTB250 and BFTB600 results.) We are just talking about basic proportions equations which they covered in school when were kids:

quote:


BFTB250 (average scenario size) = [your BFTB120 derived from the demo] * 60%

BFTB600 (largest scenario size) = [your BFTB120 derived from the demo] * 17%


So far, I am the only one to post BFTB120 results. Thus, you would have to go with my ratios. But other posts in this thread have seemed to indicate fairly consistent ratios. For example, BFTB250 has been around 4X of BFTB600.



< Message edited by MarkShot -- 6/10/2010 8:17:44 PM >

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Post #: 49
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/10/2010 8:19:48 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1052
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

You then take your demo result and multiply it by the factors I have provided in order to get an idea of how the retail game will run for you. (The other thing which you personally can do is use the HTTR250 benchmark to infer what would be the BFTB250 and BFTB600 results.) We are just talking about basic proportions equations which they covered in school when were kids:

quote:


BFTB250 (average scenario size) = [your BFTB120 derived from the demo] * 60%

BFTB600 (largest scenario size) = [your BFTB120 derived from the demo] * 17%


So far, I am the only one to post BFTB120 results. Thus, you would have to go with my ratios. But other posts in this thread have seemed to indicate fairly consistent ratios. For example, BFTB250 has been around 4X of BFTB600.




When the Demo becomes available, I'll run it and post my numbers!

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Post #: 50
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 1:28:03 PM   
NewBobolix

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/7/2010
From: Venice - Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

See first post with red highlight "MORE NEW STUFF".

Included a means to extrapolate performance from the BFTB demo to the BFTB retail game.


Mark I need your opinion:
-I'll be out for the summer and will be able to play ONLY on an old notebook
-I'll buy a new notebook but not before september (will be a desktop replacement)
-I did the COTA250 test and scored a poor 22 at ">>> Speed"

Will I be able to play the tutorial scenario even several times to learn all the mechanics of the game (as far as I understood should be a "120" scenario) while reading the manuals during the summer ?
I bought COTA in a wrong moment of my life and never really played with also due to the location of the scenarios..I know The Bulge will be veeery different for me...and I have much more time to invest now :)

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Post #: 51
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 1:39:31 PM   
boogada

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 8/17/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		NewBobolix: I scored a 26 on the Cota250 test and the game runs just fine! At least the smaller scenarios, including the tutorial. So go ahead. 

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Post #: 52
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 2:02:54 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		NewBobolix,

First, I just want to point out the whole reason for these benchmarks was to give people an opportunity to evaluate what is reasonable performance for themselves. I remember when I used to play flight sims. One guy could look at 30 FPS and call it "smooth as silk" and another would say that he couldn't "shoot for sh*t" because his plane was jerky and uncontrollable.

COTA is a good choice to get up to speed for BFTB. The major engine concepts are all there. I did a major portion of my COTA beta work on a 2004 DELL Inspiron 5150 Laptop (Intel Pentium 4 HT Mobile 2.8GHz). I really had a good time with it, but personally avoided the largest scenarios, because it was too slow for my tastes.

Take a look a this table. I've sorted it by number of units. You will see that there are at least 15 or so scenarios to practice on with a lot less units than the COTA250 reference.

And keep in mind that COTA will run in background when minimized. So, if you are playing larger scenarios and feeling impatient especially during the slower night periods, you can set a RUN UNTIL for 2-3 hours and go off and surf the Web.

Enjoy the Summer!






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 53
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 2:11:25 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		One other thing to keep mind is that it seems that the performance of the game engine does not scale linearly. So, you are going to see a bigger jump in performance than just 2X if you cut the number of units in half.

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Post #: 54
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 2:21:15 PM   
NewBobolix

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/7/2010
From: Venice - Italy
Status: offline 		thank you Mark...just a little small thing you did not realize...I will buy immediately BfTB and start directly from there as you just told me that my old notebook will do the job :)

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Post #: 55
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 2:27:04 PM   
NewBobolix

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/7/2010
From: Venice - Italy
Status: offline 		from your table I can see I will be able to play some scenarios under the 250 unit as well in BFTB





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 56
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 2:30:40 PM   
MarkShot


Posts: 6537
Joined: 3/29/2003
Status: offline 		Post removed because it was confusing. I even confused myself ... which is dangerous.

< Message edited by MarkShot -- 6/15/2010 2:34:18 PM >

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Post #: 57
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 4:43:28 PM   
RayWolfe

 

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From: Kent in the UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
I even confused myself

Easily done!

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Post #: 58
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/15/2010 6:33:10 PM   
NewBobolix

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/7/2010
From: Venice - Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Post removed because it was confusing. I even confused myself ... which is dangerous.


You really confused me !!!
In the middle of my confusion I finished pressing the BUY button and put 16 random numbers found on a piece of plastic that was quietly stitting in my pocket...
As a result I'm now at 6% of a download of something big

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Post #: 59
RE: Take the BFTB performance test! - 6/16/2010 1:24:12 AM   
Larac

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline 		BFTB120: 338
BFTB250: 106
BFTB600: 35

I ran at 1024x768 and default 1920 x 1080 no real speed difference.

Also no Allocation of CPUs or memory just let it run

AMD Phenom II X3 2,80 GHz
3 GB RAM
NVIDIA 9800 GTX
WIN 7 64 Bit

More RAM may help I have another gig to add, will repost with that info just to see.


Lee

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Post #: 60
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