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RE: Future Directions - Features

 
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RE: Future Directions - Features - 1/31/2013 1:13:00 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Some of these AAR requests go against the principle of not providing perfect intel. In real life commanders would never know the answers to some of these questions.


For me anyway at the end of the game I don't mind that FOW is lifted..now if it was linked scenarios in a campaign setting of course it wouldn't be good..but as the game is finished at that point I see no harm.

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Post #: 361
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/1/2013 5:43:50 AM   
RockinHarry


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Some more detailed end game statistics, would be cool indeed.

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Post #: 362
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/1/2013 11:40:20 AM   
Alchenar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Some of these AAR requests go against the principle of not providing perfect intel. In real life commanders would never know the answers to some of these questions.


For me anyway at the end of the game I don't mind that FOW is lifted..now if it was linked scenarios in a campaign setting of course it wouldn't be good..but as the game is finished at that point I see no harm.



Exactly. It isn't real life it's a game. Amongst the many differences (such as everyone stopping fighting when the final whistle blows) are the fact that when the scenario is over I can load up it up again and have another go, trying to apply the lessons I learnt the first time around. But if the game never shows me information that lets me work out what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong then it's impossible for me to learn and impossible for me to get better.


FOW during play is an important (perhaps crucial) part of the game. But when it's all over I'd like to know what the score was, and then to continue the sports analogy I'd like to know what the statistics on possession, passing, saves, shots-on-target were. Because that's what I actually need to know to make my strategy better the next time.

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Post #: 363
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/12/2013 9:25:35 PM   
kwajfluff

 

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I think the capability to designate/draw and use phase lines and unit boundaries would be splendid. Ideally, one could use the PL as a control measure (move to, attack to, withdraw to, et al) to coordinate movement of units under separate HQs. Ideally, use of unit boundaries would somewhat constrain (not prevent) units from transgressing their boundaries for fear of fratricide (based on weather/visibility/terrain/proximity to ongoing or anticipated enemy contact/quality of commander or unit et al). Deliberately planning to transgress set boundaries (by use of waypoints, for example) would incur some delay, confusion, or cohesion penalty based on quality of controlling HQs on both sides of the boundary.

cheers

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Post #: 364
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/21/2013 10:24:25 PM   
wodin


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Would like it if you check a weapon on the side bar the AARm and APer circles on the map corresponded to the said weapon your looking at.

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Post #: 365
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/22/2013 12:14:29 AM   
Arjuna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Would like it if you check a weapon on the side bar the AARm and APer circles on the map corresponded to the said weapon your looking at.

What a neat idea. Thanks.

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Post #: 366
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/23/2013 5:54:46 PM   
wodin


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Going a step further with this idea..I'd like to have an option that instead of showing rings it shows exactaly the range the weapon sees taking into account LOS..so it moves dynamically as the unit moves..again just as a line following the LOS rather than a line circle...not sure if thas possible or will be a big CPU drain..but it would give a very quick look at roughly how far the weapon will fire all around the unit as I said taking into account terrain..then you could have a version of both ring and LOS line distance that grow and retracts due to time of day or weather.

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Post #: 367
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/23/2013 10:32:57 PM   
Arjuna


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It could be do-able but there would be a load caused by the LOS checks. It would be fine for a static unit but I wouldn't recommend, it for a moving unit.

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Post #: 368
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/24/2013 12:48:45 AM   
wodin


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OK..that really wouldn't be too much difference from the area LOS check then. I do always wish for a quick an easy way to see LOS from a units view and find area LOS OK but with the different shades etc it's sometimes abit tricky still to work out. Not sure how you could do it..I think shading the area the unit Can't see is abit more intuitive even if it maybe abit more abstract.

What about just taking into account weather and daylight? The ring grows or shrinks? Actually not sure if daylight is already taken into account.

The "by weapon" idea would be a good one anyway..when I'm checking weapons I want to see how far that weapon extends from the unit.

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Post #: 369
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/25/2013 9:40:24 AM   
wodin


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I would also like to see where the symbol of the size of the counter is maybe have that syymbol with a colour background the colour would be colour coded to match the regiment\brigade it belonged to. That way you can quickly asses what units belong to what. Maybe you could have a filter to change it depending on whether you want to see battalion or regiment\brigade or division or even corps if we get games with two or more Corps involved. Make the colour more pastel shade so not to gaudy. It would give a quick visual to the player so he knows who each unit belongs to quickly could be esp useful for Arty units etc etc.

< Message edited by wodin -- 2/25/2013 9:41:29 AM >


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Post #: 370
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/25/2013 3:28:42 PM   
jimcarravallah

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I would also like to see where the symbol of the size of the counter is maybe have that syymbol with a colour background the colour would be colour coded to match the regiment\brigade it belonged to. That way you can quickly asses what units belong to what. Maybe you could have a filter to change it depending on whether you want to see battalion or regiment\brigade or division or even corps if we get games with two or more Corps involved. Make the colour more pastel shade so not to gaudy. It would give a quick visual to the player so he knows who each unit belongs to quickly could be esp useful for Arty units etc etc.


I think the utility is embedded in the arrow key navigation through the order of battle. Hitting the up arrow from a subordinate unit shows that's unit's higher echelon headquarters.

Hitting a right or left click shows peer organizations within the structure. Hitting the down arrows shows units subordinate to the one selected.

Hope this helps.

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Post #: 371
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/25/2013 4:13:04 PM   
phoenix

 

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Helps me, Jim. Never did bother to read the manual on that......Now I don't need to. Ta.

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Post #: 372
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/25/2013 4:33:34 PM   
wodin


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Jim yeah but I also could use a visual method thorugh colour code so you can look at the map and see exactly who belongs to who across the board..similar to PZC system. Without the need to press keys..also you could filter it depending in the scale you want to see..
quote:

ORIGINAL: jimcarravallah


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I would also like to see where the symbol of the size of the counter is maybe have that syymbol with a colour background the colour would be colour coded to match the regiment\brigade it belonged to. That way you can quickly asses what units belong to what. Maybe you could have a filter to change it depending on whether you want to see battalion or regiment\brigade or division or even corps if we get games with two or more Corps involved. Make the colour more pastel shade so not to gaudy. It would give a quick visual to the player so he knows who each unit belongs to quickly could be esp useful for Arty units etc etc.


I think the utility is embedded in the arrow key navigation through the order of battle. Hitting the up arrow from a subordinate unit shows that's unit's higher echelon headquarters.

Hitting a right or left click shows peer organizations within the structure. Hitting the down arrows shows units subordinate to the one selected.

Hope this helps.


< Message edited by wodin -- 2/25/2013 4:34:49 PM >


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Post #: 373
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/25/2013 4:52:11 PM   
RockinHarry


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..and I want blinking intel update movements. I can well remember, when I started playing BFTB that times, when I saw these units racing over the map and I thought... WTF!

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Post #: 374
RE: Future Directions - Features - 2/26/2013 6:36:16 PM   
wodin


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new larger counter size option..This is something I mentioned in another thread but so it doesn't get lost I will post it here aswell.


I'd like to see another counter size option one which is bigger so you could see an AArm and an Apr combat power number for the unit always showing on the unit along the bottom underneath the unit symbol..that way you see all the time what the units is like against Inf and against tanks and you can still have the orders or what the unit is doing in the box upper right. Also room to have a spot or light light up if the unit is spotted. The size of the units in game limits the amount of quick available info that many wargames show on their counters. Maybe if we had another size counter that showed this info? SO we then have three different sizes?

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Post #: 375
RE: Future Directions - Features - 3/11/2013 5:53:27 PM   
wodin


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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3283346

See Daz's post further down link ..THIS...

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Post #: 376
RE: Future Directions - Features - 3/20/2013 3:47:06 PM   
wodin


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Pause on options..like a pause on red warning message..pause on unit retreat..pause on unit out of ammo..etc etc.

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Post #: 377
RE: Future Directions - Features - 4/5/2013 8:54:26 AM   
phoenix

 

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I would like to see a feature allowing individual SEPs to be at the very least switched off during the scenario - so that when they become untenable (in airborne ops, especially) trucks aren't wasted from the bases trying to get through to them. Preferably, I think it would be nice to be able to change the SEP during a scenario (you could build time and location constraints in), as this was what would have happened in real life when one supply entry point was cut-off, assuming others were available. During Market-Garden they did airdrops into Oosterbeek once the heath drop zones fell. It would be good to have the option of dragging the SEP to a new location (in game), even if, say, it took 24 hours for this to become effective and the result was, say, a reduced effectiveness.

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Post #: 378
RE: Future Directions - Features - 4/5/2013 9:28:19 AM   
Arjuna


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phoenix,

That is totally not realistic. just read the history of the British Airborne at Arnhem and how they watched plane after plane attempt to deliver supplies to supply points that had been overrun by the enemy. You assume that the commanders had far more control over these things than they actually did. I understand you don't like it and neither did the historical RL commanders but that's just how it was. The comms for the 1st Airborne were atrocious. they knew this before they went in and agreed that the resupply schedule should be adhered to regardless. The only changes that were affected were after the link up with 30th Corps.

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Post #: 379
RE: Future Directions - Features - 4/5/2013 11:15:39 AM   
phoenix

 

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They did emergency drops into Oosterbeek. They were largely unsuccessful - supplies landing just beyond the perimetre - but they did try to do it.

And as far as road supplies go, if a column was interdicted up a road they were using for supply, are you saying that if there was a healthy diversion available, just 10kms to the flank, they wouldn't have simply re-routed the column to there?

So, for example - the pic below. Supply down main road interdicted at 1. How long would they p[ut up with that when, off map, there are possible re-routes to the new position marked 2?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by phoenix -- 4/5/2013 11:21:17 AM >

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Post #: 380
RE: Future Directions - Features - 4/5/2013 2:59:11 PM   
jimcarravallah

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenix

They did emergency drops into Oosterbeek. They were largely unsuccessful - supplies landing just beyond the perimetre - but they did try to do it.

And as far as road supplies go, if a column was interdicted up a road they were using for supply, are you saying that if there was a healthy diversion available, just 10kms to the flank, they wouldn't have simply re-routed the column to there?

So, for example - the pic below. Supply down main road interdicted at 1. How long would they p[ut up with that when, off map, there are possible re-routes to the new position marked 2?





In a good scenario design, ground transport supply entry point(s) should reflect routes from depots to the map edge secured prior to the start of the scenario, or the location of a depot itself.

The Germans in Bulge would usually have access to SEPs along the east edge of a map because roads coming from the north, south, and west of what became the salient boundaries were controlled by the Allies from the start.

The designer should also consider that not all roads on the east edge of the map were viable communication lines to German supplies. Some on the north and south ends of the FLOT might wind off map through allied territory before bending back to the east edge of the map.

Parachute and glider supported SEPs are different, because they are points on map where planes are scheduled to leave supplies.

If there were an ability to change them, it would be based on how effective communication was with rear commanders and how quickly the rear administrative engine could plan and implement a new drop point. Communications from isolated units is significantly less effective in World War II, and the paperwork generated to replan multiple carbon copies of typed documents and forms carried by messenger from point to point in the ETO administrative hierarchy.



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Post #: 381
RE: Future Directions - Features - 4/5/2013 3:53:06 PM   
phoenix

 

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and the paperwork generated to replan multiple carbon copies of typed documents and forms carried by messenger from point to point in the ETO administrative hierarchy.


Lol, Jim.

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Post #: 382
RE: Future Directions - Features - 4/6/2013 12:02:40 AM   
Arjuna


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Actually what Jim says is very true. Communications back in 1944 was a far cry from the instantaneous comms we have today. The 1st Abn Div had crap crystal sets that failed to work in the urban environment it found itself in at Arnhem. The only way they got any change to the supply drop zones was after the link up with 30th Corps and it was able to use its more powerful comms capability. Even then IIRC it took them 48 hours to effect a change for one small drop.

I appreciate that as a player you want more control, but RL commanders often don't have that degree of control.

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Post #: 383
RE: Future Directions - Features - 4/6/2013 12:09:42 AM   
wodin


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I agree.

We have to remember where dealing with WW2 so comms was no where near as sophisticated as it is today. We have to bear that in mind whilst playing. What seems obvious and easy todo for us playing the game most likely wasn't so easy during the battle.

SO in effect when we come across something like this and it looks so straight forward to us we have way more knowledge and what is in essence borg spotting which give us a much better picture of FOW than our real life counterparts.

The failure of the radio equipment at Arnhem was a massive issue.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Actually what Jim says is very true. Communications back in 1944 was a far cry from the instantaneous comms we have today. The 1st Abn Div had crap crystal sets that failed to work in the urban environment it found itself in at Arnhem. The only way they got any change to the supply drop zones was after the link up with 30th Corps and it was able to use its more powerful comms capability. Even then IIRC it took them 48 hours to effect a change for one small drop.

I appreciate that as a player you want more control, but RL commanders often don't have that degree of control.


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Post #: 384
RE: Future Directions - Features - 6/19/2013 4:03:09 PM   
Perturabo


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-100m grid for map maker.
-ability to check line of sight in the map maker.

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Post #: 385
RE: Future Directions - Features - 6/19/2013 5:15:23 PM   
Rock64

 

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This same argument should be applied to call for fire comms. Not every unit had the ability to call for fire 24/7.

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Post #: 386
RE: Future Directions - Features - 6/19/2013 7:08:38 PM   
dazkaz15


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rock64

This same argument should be applied to call for fire comms. Not every unit had the ability to call for fire 24/7.

How would you implement that in game though?

Most if not all Coy would have a radio, or in more static locations a land line. Maybe they can't get through to higher level artillery, because of range or obstructions like hills, or because the equipment has been damaged, or cables cut due to bombardment but are in contact with closer artillery units, who would probably relay forward calls for fire to higher level artillery anyway.

Also Artillery observers (FOO's) move from HQ to HQ as the situation, dictates.

It would be unusual for a major assault to take place for instance without embedded FOO's from the various artillery units who often draw up elaborate fire plans, with pre recorded/registered targets.

So I don't see how you could implement this in game without it having to be totally random, and that would annoy the hell out of the player.

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Post #: 387
RE: Future Directions - Features - 7/12/2013 10:26:12 PM   
Templer


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Can't we have larger images of the equipment?
And Images of the Commanders?

And advanced and/or complete bios of the commanders?

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Post #: 388
RE: Future Directions - Features - 7/12/2013 10:45:19 PM   
dazkaz15


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer

Can't we have larger images of the equipment?
And Images of the Commanders?

And advanced and/or complete bios of the commanders?


I did a kind of concept thing with pictures for the UI a while back, don't know if you have seen it or not, or maybe you think the pictures are still to small?

Link is here if you want to take a look

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3284568

The more finished version would look something like this that is posted on the following page.
What you need to remember is that there is multiple equipment listed in each unit. This is just the equipment in 1 Bn HQ 1 SS Pz Regt.




< Message edited by dazkaz15 -- 7/12/2013 10:53:34 PM >

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Post #: 389
RE: Future Directions - Features - 7/12/2013 11:07:45 PM   
Templer


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Ah yes, this size is much better.
I often look at the images of the equipment to enhance my imagination.

I still miss images of the commanders.


< Message edited by Templer -- 7/12/2013 11:13:33 PM >

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