Matrix Games Forums

Distant Worlds: Shadows Final Teaser!Distant Worlds: Legends gets Updated!Recruiting Testers for Commander: the Great War on Mac!Armageddon invasion starts in 2014Command Rommels Panzers in Battle Academy!Servers UpdateThe Deal goes Fourth!Command Ops gets a Massive Update!Lost Battles AAR: Smolensk 41War in the East: Lost Battles is here!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command Ops Series >> RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! Page: <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 3:32:47 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Totally classless post, no need to toss insults and slander. You come off as a very bitter person. I bought the game from NWS, My house is paid off, I own two cars , put one kid through college and working on another now. Money is tight but I think I've earned the right to spend my money as I see fit. The level of camaraderie has certainly went downhill here in recent weeks I'm sad to say.


Thats what Ive been saying for a few days now.....I can't get my head around whats happened...JudgeDredd has got off it looks like....the level of camaradrie as you put it has gone from sky high to pretty damn low...I never thought the release of this game would have caused such a reaction both ways...ruptures in the fabric of this little community....no idea if things will get back to how they where as things are being said that will cause rifts for awhile I think...oh hum..

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 451
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 4:00:24 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 1474
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline 		Billy, I don't usually get into these kind of discussions as I feel everyone needs to understand and act upon their own price threshold but, I must say that you sir are being too gruff in your statements. How dare you bring such venom to this quaint place we frequent with your insults and vulgarity. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. There really is no need for name calling.

I'm not sure if you are this rude in person, but it isn't your place to determine how others spend their hard earned money. Please consider editing your post as we have underage wargamers that read these forums and I would hate to think of what effect your comments might have upon them.

mo reb


_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to Agent S)
Post #: 452
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 4:04:49 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 1474
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
.no idea if things will get back to how they where as things are being said that will cause rifts for awhile I think...oh hum..


Things will be fine if we all remember to keep a level head, even when confronted with unwarranted attacks. Still a great place and my main forum for wargamming news and said fellowship.

mo reb


_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 453
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 4:11:25 AM   
Challerain

 

Posts: 143
Joined: 6/16/2001
From: Severna Park, MD
Status: offline
quote:

JudgeDredd has got off it looks like


I thought one of his last posts said he was going on holiday......

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 454
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 4:22:41 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		oh yeah thats right....I remember...its just his very last post he said he was checking out because of all the sh#t going on...

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to Challerain)
Post #: 455
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 5:11:27 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1850
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		I thought twice about posting this but the "journalist" in me thinks it may help Panther out a little with regards to BFtB's pricing - though I just don't want anyone to fall of their chairs. So buckle up.

But... I was persuing some old threads of mine in some other forums and I came across a post I made in 2006 that refers to Matrix pricing. It reads as follows, typos and all:


quote:

Having just bought Matrix/2by3's new World at War game, I received as part of the purchase and "extra" called the "Matrix Games Fall 2006 Catalogue".

Two things occured here, 1 troubling and the other surprising:

1. Troubling - Matrix lists games that aren't finished suggesting
availability.

2, Surprising - Matrix lists its actual retail prices for all.

So here's the poop in USD for digital download:

1. World in Flames $80.
2. Empires in Arms $60.
3. Carriers at War $50
...


It doesn't seem then, that the retail price for BFtB is anything special at all given this perspective, does it (and there were indeed some surprised replys to that WiF price too)?

I wonder if those with GG's World of War AWD can still access this e-catalogue to confirm? I no longer have my game insalled.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 456
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 5:37:33 AM   
maurader

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		The day I saw that this game was released (I think I saw the news item on bluesnews) I quickly directed my browser with my right hand to Matrix Games and with my left hand I pulled out my credit card. When I got to the buy page I saw the price and put my credit card away.

Dont get me wrong, I am a big Matrix games customer but the sticker shock pulled me back.
I am not saying that I wont get it (as I own both the other games) but the price is making me spend more time reading the posts and checking for reviews.

I am really leaning toward purchasing it (I am just waiting on payday). I am telling myself that I regularly purchase software upgrades that easily cost this much (i.e. Propellerheads Reason 5 update is coming out and will cost $129). In addition, I have also purchased Steel Beasts Pro PE for $110.00.

The big problem I am worried about is that there are a lot of potential customers who are so taken back by the price that they might resort to getting the game other ways. This in turn might turn Matrix Games to DRM.

I play all types of games (console, PC, simulations, strategy, space, racing, etc...) I have really been a big PC gamer but am really being pushed away from PC games (toward consoles) because of the very restrictive DRM methods that have been coming out lately.

I have been very happy (and very supportive) or Matrix Games because of their unubtrusive stance on DRM.

I just hope my worries will not bear fruit.

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 457
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 6:00:07 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 1779
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline 		Quite a thread.

I noted that PC World had an article today about the game... it was only about the price, I'm sad to say.

I'm one of those buy and try and go on to the next title folks. This pricing goes beyond that for me. I've got too many other games that haven't been given much attention. I intend to spend the summer revisiting prior purchases and kicking the buy and try habit for good. I've got enough games to keep me occupied for the rest of my life... time to quit buying.

Add me to the "might have bought it at $50" crowd... I would have been tempted... honestly.

I'm sure the game is worth your price and I hope you sell tons of them... but I can't be part of the crowd. I'll get my "fix" reading reviews or AAR's.

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

Want Navajo Nation Photos? Go to:
http://fardareismai.piczo.com/?cr=4&rfm=y

(in reply to maurader)
Post #: 458
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 6:15:18 AM   
Joe 98


Posts: 3964
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		-

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

I'm one of those buy and try and go on to the next title folks. This pricing goes beyond that for me.




In which case that is understandable




quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

I've got too many other games that haven't been given much attention. ...........

I've got enough games to keep me occupied for the rest of my life




Everybody is different. My approach is to play 3 games well instead of playing 10 games badly!

-




(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 459
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 6:39:50 AM   
billyjj

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

I must say that you sir are being too gruff in your statements. How dare you bring such venom to this quaint place we frequent with your insults and vulgarity. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. There really is no need for name calling.



I'm not buying it... and I am certainly not telling anyone what to do with their money, if they wish to piss it away than so be it. I'm not the only one that thinks the price is too high, for everyone that bought the game and is enjoying it right now good for you. My point is be prepared to pay this much for games all the time from this point on, you really think they will release any other game of this caliber for less after everyone here buys it? This is a test run, you can say goodbye to cheap games...

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 460
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 7:03:03 AM   
Andrew Williams


Posts: 6112
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Everybody is different. My approach is to play 3 games well instead of playing 10 games badly!


I'm considering making that 2 games well   :)

(in reply to billyjj)
Post #: 461
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 7:46:07 AM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 1474
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: billyjj


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

I must say that you sir are being too gruff in your statements. How dare you bring such venom to this quaint place we frequent with your insults and vulgarity. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. There really is no need for name calling.



I'm not buying it... and I am certainly not telling anyone what to do with their money, if they wish to piss it away than so be it. I'm not the only one that thinks the price is too high, for everyone that bought the game and is enjoying it right now good for you. My point is be prepared to pay this much for games all the time from this point on, you really think they will release any other game of this caliber for less after everyone here buys it? This is a test run, you can say goodbye to cheap games...



Billy, as a fellow consumer here I don't and wouldn't chastise you for making a decision whether you decide to purchase the game or not. You are even fully within your rights, IMO, to question someones decision to do so. Yet, when you openly call them morons for doing so and use what in my mind is inappropriate analogy about bending over is where I have a problem with your post and that is why I singled you out. I am not disagreeing with your message, it is your delivery that I take offense to. I just feel they are inappropriate at these forums. Maybe it is a cultural divide that influenced my decision to comment on your post? More than likely it was my wish that these forums remain at least partially civilized. I hope you understand where I am coming from.

mo reb

_____________________________

**Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul
**A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have-Gerald Ford

(in reply to billyjj)
Post #: 462
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 11:07:30 AM   
MajFrankBurns

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

oh yeah thats right....I remember...its just his very last post he said he was checking out because of all the sh#t going on...


That's ok it's been rather quiet around here since he's gone. He tends to be over mouthy a lot and also acts like his opinion and statements are wargaming gods own.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 463
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 11:29:47 AM   
Joe 98


Posts: 3964
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

quote:

Everybody is different. My approach is to play 3 games well instead of playing 10 games badly!


I'm considering making that 2 games well   :)





(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 464
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 11:44:47 AM   
eMonticello


Posts: 525
Joined: 3/15/2002
Status: offline 		An interesting line of reasoning. If a company can get away with selling a high-quality game for a high price, then all gaming companies will sell their high-quality games for a high price and only low-quality games will be sold for a low price. Hmmm... multiple price points based on product quality.

I wonder if a pricing strategy that works with cars, ice cream, beer, computers, etc. would work with wargame software? Or will the pricing strategy remain similar to the movie industry... virtually one price for all and the only factors to differentiate the products are company promotion and user reviews?

_____________________________


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. -- Pudd'nhead Wilson

(in reply to billyjj)
Post #: 465
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 12:14:59 PM   
cmurphy625


Posts: 581
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Quite a thread.

I noted that PC World had an article today about the game... it was only about the price, I'm sad to say.

I'm one of those buy and try and go on to the next title folks. This pricing goes beyond that for me. I've got too many other games that haven't been given much attention. I intend to spend the summer revisiting prior purchases and kicking the buy and try habit for good. I've got enough games to keep me occupied for the rest of my life... time to quit buying.

Add me to the "might have bought it at $50" crowd... I would have been tempted... honestly.

I'm sure the game is worth your price and I hope you sell tons of them... but I can't be part of the crowd. I'll get my "fix" reading reviews or AAR's.

PC World Article

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 466
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 12:37:35 PM   
gts2096


Posts: 317
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: billyjj


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel




I'm not buying it... and I am certainly not telling anyone what to do with their money, if they wish to piss it away than so be it. I'm not the only one that thinks the price is too high, for everyone that bought the game and is enjoying it right now good for you. My point is be prepared to pay this much for games all the time from this point on, you really think they will release any other game of this caliber for less after everyone here buys it? This is a test run, you can say goodbye to cheap games...



He may....and i say may have a point about this becoming the norm for pricing which in that case will keep me away for some time.

Now if things change in my income status then of course ill come back...i wonder..for as many ppl that wont buy....( zero revenue )..would

dropping the price bring them back...( revenue )..and volume outweigh cost.....isnt that how fast food makes money on .99 cent cheeseburgers


(in reply to billyjj)
Post #: 467
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 1:06:24 PM   
Treale


Posts: 1052
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Totally classless post, no need to toss insults and slander. You come off as a very bitter person. I bought the game from NWS, My house is paid off, I own two cars , put one kid through college and working on another now. Money is tight but I think I've earned the right to spend my money as I see fit. The level of camaraderie has certainly went downhill here in recent weeks I'm sad to say.


I'm with you Sulu. It's amazing to me how "Rude" some people can be!!!

The price is set. Buy it, or don't....

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 468
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 2:13:24 PM   
flipperwasirish


Posts: 1552
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gts2096
volume outweigh cost.....isnt that how fast food makes money on .99 cent cheeseburgers



Actually no it isn't. They hope to make money on the fries, drinks and deserts. Do you honestly think a fast food joint can pay for materials (burgers, buns, condiments), staff, rent and other overhead costs selling .99 cent burgers?

In additon, part of the equation is the that someone in your party may not want a .99 cent burger, but rather a Big Mac or Whopper etc...





_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to gts2096)
Post #: 469
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/3/2010 2:31:29 PM   
MajFrankBurns

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline 		Yes Flipperwash is correct. Burger King franchise members were even complaining not too long ago that the .99 cent double cheeseburger deal was costing them money tooth and nail. Now they have gone to this value menu dollar cheeseburger that only has 1 piece of cheese now instead of two. I love the value menu stuff for a buck most of them do now. You get more meat for your money buying three value burgers vs their top of the line burgers for $5.00 McDonald fries still win in taste and Sonic Onion Rings for their taste. Sonic also has the best value chicken sandwich too it's real chicken. lol But, my all time favorite is a Whataburger triple meat cheeseburger with bacon. mmmmmm so good and about 2500 calories. That's all you get to eat for the whole day.

(in reply to flipperwasirish)
Post #: 470
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 12:15:04 AM   
Tactics


Posts: 324
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: USA
Status: offline 		After who knows how many years I came stumbling back to see that this was finally released. Was expecting the $49, but the WITP price point took me by surprise. Really, really by surprise. I'll pass. No thanks, no way - Panther never said this was going to be some epic WITP type game. It was supposed to be basically COTA with bridge building. If they decided to go 'all out', that's on them. They shouldn't have done it in a theatre as played out and over done as The Bugle.

Really - Another Bulge game for $80? No!

Eastern Front? Maybe.

PS - Whatever happened to that promise that new games features would be added to older title?? I'd rather pay 80$ to have BFTB features/mod friendly things added to HTTR than huge money for some stinky Battle of the Bulge.

(in reply to MajFrankBurns)
Post #: 471
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 12:25:40 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Major...your opinion of JD is so wrong...infact if someone gave that description of someone on here JD is one of the last I'd think it was....if he was that bad he wouldn't be liked on the forum and he is.

I word of advice, I don't know you so I'm not sure whether your one of those who really doesn't give a sh#t about what others think of them...nor do I know whether you'd be happy posting on a forum where your not looked upon in the best of lights...if you are one of those people then ingnore me but if your not you are causing abit of friction with a few long time members...

Anyway like I said ignore this if you really don't give a damn.

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to Tactics)
Post #: 472
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 12:35:43 AM   
cmurphy625


Posts: 581
Joined: 1/19/2009
From: Boston, MA
Status: offline 		JD is good people in my book!

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 473
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 12:38:31 AM   
Treale


Posts: 1052
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline 		You are correct. JD is one of the Good Guys!!!

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to cmurphy625)
Post #: 474
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 12:46:43 AM   
MajFrankBurns

 

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline 		Everything is opinionated of course and I don't see him in the same light as fanboys of him. I also begin to see the pecking order crop up again Wodin. You really should comment only where "you" are concerned.

(in reply to Treale)
Post #: 475
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 12:53:20 AM   
LRRP

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I have heard that from some people here you do not receive a printed manual for the physical delivery, however on the game page it talks about a manual with physical delivery. Which is it? Also is it a color manual and of excellent quality( page size, clarity of screen shots ect..) or a piece of quickly printed junk as more and more PC game manuals are becoming where they say see the pdf for more information BS.

< Message edited by LRRP -- 6/4/2010 12:54:45 AM >

(in reply to MajFrankBurns)
Post #: 476
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 1:09:20 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Its a PDF manual there is no physical manual as such.

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to LRRP)
Post #: 477
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 1:17:26 AM   
Larac

 

Posts: 233
Joined: 9/5/2004
Status: offline 		99% sure Manual is PDF file not printed.

Lee

(in reply to LRRP)
Post #: 478
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 1:35:28 AM   
LRRP

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I am very disappointed in this PDF file for the manual story. So I have to pay $80-$90 for the game ( A high price since I bought COTA for almost half that, Oh thats right it went up in price right around the release of this game) then spend $20 in ink to print the manual. I may be a little old fashioned but I like a printed manual to read. I am not trying to insult anyone who bought the game, I hope you really enjoy it. I am trying to put my foot down on price increases when they really go contrary to the previous business model. If this game included right out of the block several other key battles (I could list many of them as well as I am sure many of you could) then the price perhaps could be better understood versus previous versions of this game series. Now some of you will say hey other mods are being created by fellow users ect.. Thats great but the fact is I want someone who created / designed the game and who is receiving the compensation to create good to great mods (battles). Also their is some expectation when you get in this price range for a game to really deliver content not just one battle experience. Going back to the manual issue, if you had more battles I could live without a printed manual, because I am getting a better playing experience with a changing experience of multiple battles in WW2, not just rehashing the same one over and over. Now you could say every time can be a different experience, but we all know that we all do the same things over and over that seem to work against the AI. Once again I want to reiterate that I am not cutting on Panther nor any of you playtesters who put countless free hours into this game. I am also not cutting on anyone who has bought the game. It's just my 2 cents, so I am only $89.98 shy of buying the game , LOL.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 479
RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! - 6/4/2010 2:52:00 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3981
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		I have not purchased the game yet as it would not be a prudent thing for me to do right now. However, that does not mean I think the game is overpriced. I will buy it when I can/should.

I can understand the initial sticker price shock as it is a bit more than most other games. I also have no problem with any developer making a decent living from his work. I would much rather pay a hundred bucks for a well designed game than any amount of bs taxes that are just squandered away by some flake bureaucrat that never created anything. There are innumerable products, some of which are produced with what amounts to slave labor, that are vastly overpriced yet sell well every day of the week. Many brands of tennis shoes cost more than this game. I, for one, get far more use and enjoyment from a good game like this than a pair of slave labor tennis shoes.

Regarding the manual; PDF manuals are great. I have always preferred that to a conventional manual.. I have used 2 monitors on my primary PC for many years now. The cost of a second monitor is very cheap in the long run. For the cost of printing one manual you can have a good LCD. This enables you to have a large view of some pertinent part of the game that you are studying/playing. When you move on to another question, you have a search function to get you there quickly. I have no need for a paperback book which would necessitate keeping a light on next to me while playing the game so I could fumble through its pages-archaic. Reading paper pages is a bedtime activity for me-and has been long before I was “over the hill”.

If you are not buying this game because the price seems unfair, ask yourself what is a fair price. Then consider just how long your ideal price should be kept locked in-5 years maybe? What about ever increasing costs of business and ever increasing taxes? Does a developer of a first class game deserve to have a late model auto as your local tax authorities have? I think they do.


_____________________________

Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.

Thomas Jefferson


(in reply to LRRP)
Post #: 480
Page:   <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command Ops Series >> RE: Price? - You get what you pay for!! Page: <<   < prev  14 15 [16] 17 18   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.289