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Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan"

 
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Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 3:44:08 PM   
ilovestrategy


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What type of tanks are the Americans using in that movie? I thought the Sherman was used. Was it phased out by this time or is the movie using the wrong tank?

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 4:00:31 PM   
Terminus


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The Sherman was certainly not "phased out". As I recall, that film uses the M24 Chaffee, which had begun to replace the Stuart tank at the time.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 5/26/2010 4:02:53 PM >


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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 4:31:59 PM   
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For several years, I lived two-doors down from Harold Larsen. "Mr. Larsen" was the the pilot of the L-4 "Grasshopper" that sighted the intact Remagen Bridge. I remember being told the story, but I'm afraid that none of it sunk very deep into my childhood awareness of "who did what during the war." I played little-league baseball against his son, Kenny, with whom, I got in more than one fistfight. The elder Larsen didn't work, which was odd, I thought at the time, because he couldn't have been older than forty. I know that he slept late into the morning, because Kenny or his mom would often emerge from their house and ask the neighborhood kids to quiet-down, lest he be foul awakened. Again, though, I didn't make much of it. In retrospect, maybe the war took something out of him, the best years of his life, perhaps. Regardless of what happened to him, before or after, I hope that he found the peace that all those old warriors so richly deserve.

< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 5/26/2010 4:33:12 PM >


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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 7:20:28 PM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The Sherman was certainly not "phased out". As I recall, that film uses the M24 Chaffee, which had begun to replace the Stuart tank at the time.



thank you Terminus. :)

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 8:35:26 PM   
Andrew Williams


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The chaffee was not a replacement for the Sherman

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 9:29:17 PM   
Terminus


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That's sorta why I said "Stuart", not "Sherman", wasn't it?

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 10:49:51 PM   
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The producers of the film used M-24s because they were available at the time the movie was made. That does not mean M-24s made the crossing at the actual bridge. The American vehicles most likely to have been first on the scene at Remagen were probably half tracks and M-8 armored cars, as these were the sort of vehicles used by armored scouts.

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/26/2010 11:18:18 PM   
Terminus


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The film was shot in Czechoslovakia, and the presence of the film crew, with all those nasty tanks became one of the more far-fetched excuses for the Soviet invasion of the country later in the year...

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 1:59:44 AM   
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Israel still used Sharmans in the 50's.


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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 6:09:32 AM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

The producers of the film used M-24s because they were available at the time the movie was made. That does not mean M-24s made the crossing at the actual bridge. The American vehicles most likely to have been first on the scene at Remagen were probably half tracks and M-8 armored cars, as these were the sort of vehicles used by armored scouts.


Ahhh ok, so the movie is not historically accurate. Well, it is a movie!


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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 6:34:18 AM   
Andrew Williams


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quote:

That's sorta why I said "Stuart", not "Sherman", wasn't it?



ooops

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 7:58:55 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Israel still used Sharmans in the 50's.



IIRC correctly reserve armored unit used them with more armor, better engines and 105mm British made rifled guns which game them a fighting chance against a T-62 all the way up until the 73 war.

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 8:52:10 AM   
Terminus


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The guns were French, and they used the "Super Sherman" in the Six-Day War as well.

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 1:19:10 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
The film was shot in Czechoslovakia, and the presence of the film crew, with all those nasty tanks became one of the more far-fetched excuses for the Soviet invasion of the country later in the year...


Wow, really?


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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 7:49:20 PM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
The film was shot in Czechoslovakia, and the presence of the film crew, with all those nasty tanks became one of the more far-fetched excuses for the Soviet invasion of the country later in the year...


Wow, really?




That's actually in my little booklet that came with my dvd.

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/27/2010 9:28:38 PM   
Obsolete


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Israel still used Sharmans in the 50's.



Israel used them much later as well. Some other poor countries have used them up to 1990s (or was that the Jackson?), though going though major overhauls over the years. The fact is, the Sherman was already obsolete when it ran fresh off the assembly lines.

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/28/2010 1:09:59 AM   
GoodGuy

 

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Israel heavily modified the turrets of the Shermans, which led to the Super Sherman later on.
Israel used Shermans in 1967 and 1973 (means the Sherman M-50 Continental, the M-50 Cummins, the M-51 [also known as Isherman]). For the IDF, the only real Super Sherman was a 76mm M4A1 and HVSS suspension, designated "Super Sherman M-1".

Shermans were pretty much the MBTs for India when the (3rd) war with Pakistan started (1965), this resulted in the largest commitment of Sherman and Patton tanks (with the latter being a vital workhorse for Pakistan) during a conflict since WWII. The M4 Sherman was pretty much india's MBT, where some of them were upgraded with French guns, and where others were older M4s that just had the 75mm gun, around 175 tanks all in all, plus they had ~160 French AMX light tanks and some ~180 Centurions (105mm). Pakistan had 200 M4 Shermans (76mm), plus some 150 M24, and quite a number of lighter tanks.
After some vital successes against a superior number of Pakistani tanks, India lost 120 tanks during just one operation, where then the 105mm Centurions saved India's butt.

Many Middle and South American countries were using Shermans for decades, and I think some even served well into the 2000s, in one or another country down there.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 5/28/2010 7:34:41 AM >


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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/28/2010 11:26:49 PM   
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quote:

Bridge at Remagan


MARCH 7, 1945: High atop the hill overlooking Remagen and the majestic Rhine River, Lt. Col. Leonard E. Engeman, Redwood Falls, Minn., trained his field glasses on the valley below. The commander of the 14th Tank Battalion actually jumped with excitement when he spotted the bridge.

The Ludendorff bridge was still intact!

German vehicles were moving across the span—across the only Rhine bridge Nazis had failed to blow in their frantic withdrawal from the hammer-like blows of the mighty Allied war machine.

It was apparent that Americans—this task force from Combat Command B of the 9th Armored Division—had arrived before they were expected. Otherwise, the Germans would have allowed more time for their remaining vehicles and troops to escape across the river.

But even if the Germans had waited too long, there was no assurance they would make the capital mistake of failing to blow the bridge. Col. Engeman reasoned the enemy probably would wait until his tanks roared into Remagen and then would cheat them of the prize by setting off the charges.

He acted quickly. After summoning a platoon of the 14th's Pershing tanks—new tanks with 90mm guns that could handle anything the Germans had—Col. Engeman gave instructions to Co. A, 27th Armd. Inf. Bn.:

Go down into the town. Get through it as quickly as possible and reach the bridge. The tanks will lead. The infantry will follow on foot. Their half-tracks will bring up the rear. Let's make it snappy.

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/29/2010 3:02:28 AM   
willy


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Great opening sequence in this film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McDUIB9uzm8

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RE: Question about the movie "Bridge at Remagan" - 5/29/2010 10:33:35 AM   
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The M-26 Pershing in Europe

quote:

On March 6, 1945, in the city of Cologne, a T26E3 knocked out a Panther tank in front of the Cologne Cathedral after the Panther had knocked out at least one M4 Sherman.[55] Dramatic newsreel footage of this action was recorded by a Signal Corps cameraman, which is now on YouTube.[56][57]

On the same day, another T26E3 was knocked out near Cologne, in the town of Niehl, by an 88mm self propelled gun (Nashorn), at a range of under 300 yards.[58]

Hunnicutt briefly mentions two other tank engagements involving the T26E3, with one Tiger I knocked out during the fighting around Cologne, and one Panzer IV knocked out at Mannheim.[59]

These are the only known combat actions between the T26E3 and German AFVs during World War II.

The T26E3s with the Ninth Armored Division saw action in fighting around the Roer River with one Pershing disabled by two hits from a 150mm German field gun.

Four T26E3s were involved in the Ninth Armored Division's dramatic dash to take the Bridge at Remagen, providing fire support to the infantry in order to take the bridgehead before the Germans could blow it up. The T26E3s were too large and heavy to cross the damaged bridge and waited for five days before getting across the river by barge. Of note, some of the Division's other tanks were able to cross the bridge.[60] Europe's bridges were in general not designed to hold heavy tanks, which had been another one of the original objections to sending a heavy tank to Europe.


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