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Status of 3.10 Please?

 
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Status of 3.10 Please? - 5/19/2010 8:58:25 AM   
planetbrain


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Just curious.
As far as I can tell it's been a long time since any thing has been mentioned of the next update, the beta for which can't now be downloaded (also a long time).
Any progress, please?
Full Steam ahead/dead in water/sunk?


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RE: Status of 3.10 Please? - 5/23/2010 5:27:13 PM   
Cdr Sylvester


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I suspect it will be around 14th of June, as it will be the 3rd birthday of 3.7. Just a guess, hope it's an educated one.

Cdr Sylvester
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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/23/2010 6:49:27 PM   
hermanhum


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Once can only dare to hope that it appears in a better state than previous patch releases.

After 3.8.0 Patch: (080 Issues - 34 Fixed + 88 New) = 134 Issues
After 3.9.0 Patch: (134 Issues - 31 Fixed + 68 New) = 171 Issues
After 3.9.2 Patch: (171 Issues - 15 Fixed + 35 New) = 191 Issues
After 3.9.3 Patch: (191 Issues - 19 Fixed + 15 New) = 187 Issues
After 3.9.4 Patch: (187 Issues - 46 Fixed + 68 New) = 209 Issues

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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/24/2010 11:34:51 PM   
hermanhum


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The fourth anniversary of ANW's release is approaching and all there is to show is:

AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon ANW Issues

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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/26/2010 10:25:02 PM   
hermanhum


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Everyone has their own level of acceptance for bugginess.  If CTDs, frozen games, and the inability of the AI enemy to fire upon your forces is tolerable, then ANW is just fine.  To each, his own.  That is why AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon ANW Issues remains public; so that everyone can know and decide for themselves.  There are still fans of Windows 98, too.  (Probably the same ones who grab the 30,000+ PlayersDB scenario downloads every single week.)

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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/27/2010 6:35:11 AM   
Cdr Sylvester


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach
...as to the status of ANW: I cannot remember having one single CTD or frozen game with 3.9.4 or the latest versions before. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe I use the wrong databases.


I used 3 different DBs: ADB 2.0, Original DB and ANW DB for miniatures: never met any CTD or freezing.

Cdr Sylvester
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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/27/2010 6:38:21 AM   
hermanhum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

...as to the status of ANW: I cannot remember having one single CTD or frozen game with 3.9.4 or the latest versions before. Maybe I was lucky.

If you are really interested in replicating CTD and other bugs, just follow the instructions and test files attached to AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon ANW Issues. Because, if they cannot be replicated, they should not belong on the list in the first place. Errors have happened in the past and been corrected usually within 30 minutes of discovery.

Just because a bug does not happen to you does not mean that it does not affect others (whether covertly or overtly).

For example, sailing a sub into an AI formation and summarily decimating the enemy units might make a player feel good, but the fact that the AI was unable to fire on you due to a major bug does not mean that your game or the player was unaffected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

...as to guys grabbing your updates every week: Congratulations then; your work obviously has true followers. Hopefully that are no tests/checks for download rates, old wine in new bottles or something like that.

Unlike some Harpoon users, PlayersDB supporters do not care to track the IP addresses of those who download. If one person wants to download our Library collections 300 times in a row, that is their problem and not ours. I think that I can safely speak for the other PlayersDB contributors when I say that we are just happy that others find our work helpful and useful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach

So letīs wait for 3.10 and see if itīs good.

Absolutely. Every ANW patch starts with a clean slate. ANW always gets the benefit of the doubt. Every bug report is re-tested for accuracy and persistence. Only those problematic behaviours that can be substantiated are re-posted on the list of issues. Unfortunately, far too many old bug reports re-appear on Patch reviews because their problems have not been solved.

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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/27/2010 9:59:56 PM   
hermanhum


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Rest assured, none of the multiple websites hosting and supporting the PlayersDB practices this level of intrusion or paranoia.

The person reporting the bugs is irrelevant.  The only matter of significance is that these bugs can be replicated by anyone who cares to try.

All I see are generic claims of, "It doesn't happen to me" (supposedly as some kind of evidence that ANW actually works).  Testimonials like that are about as useful as a life-long smoker proclaiming that,
    "Smoking doesn't cause cancer and I'm proof of that. <cough><hack><wheeze>"


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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/28/2010 8:17:11 AM   
hermanhum


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It will be entertaining to see the results of your efforts at re-confirmation of the reports already independently verified.



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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/28/2010 10:00:56 PM   
FreekS


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Heres my point of view (from the not always silent minority).

ANW does work and is fun to play. There are bugs and I've replicated many of the ones Herman reports, usually with several databases. Many of those bugs are real problematic but ANW often is playable with scens that avoid the worst bugs (like you"ll notice Ive not made any submarine vs SAG scens in a long time due to that particular bug). I still prefer 3.6, which also has major bugs (notably the "visual sighting" bug and the 'forced RTB' behaviour). The big advantage of 3.6 is that it is MUCH faster and scens made with 3.6 have generally worked in all later versions, while scens made in ANW have not. CTDs are rare in solitaire.

Cheers

Freek

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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/29/2010 10:34:55 AM   
FreekS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach


quote:

ORIGINAL: FreekS
I still prefer 3.6, which also has major bugs (notably the "visual sighting" bug and the 'forced RTB' behaviour). The big advantage of 3.6 is that it is MUCH faster and scens made with 3.6 have generally worked in all later versions, while scens made in ANW have not.


But where is the future of this approach? Sticking to 3.6 is riding a dead horse, isnīt it?



Ralf,

All my recent scenarios are written in 3.6. All have been tested in ANW and work in ANW. Thez may work different in ANW: for example, airstrikes use different speeds and altitudes in ANW than in 3.6 and result in less effective attacks (no STOT).
I would love to use ANW SE, as it has several features that are great. However, as my experience is that scene built with ANW are not always forward compatible to newer versions of ANW, can never be played in 3.6 (which is MUCH faster and allows large scens to be played well), and the fact that I do not believe the SE has been properly tested, I build in 3.6.

Try out Mid-Atlantic in ANW and you'll see it works well even though it was built in 3.6.

I have very bad experience building for other databases than PDB; I started with DB2K (lets not rediscuss that episode) and recently I was asked by HUD3/AGSI to rebuild my Pirates scens in HUD3 using the ANW SE. I got no support to make the special platforms those scens require, and thus had to give up due to lack of support from AGSI/HUD3. This cost about a week of building, begging, mailing etc. Compare that to the support behind PDB and the decision what database to use for me was easy to make. Each his own though.

Freek

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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/29/2010 10:47:54 AM   
hermanhum


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Thanks for confirming all the bugs across different databases and hardware systems. It has always been known that the problems lie with the software and not individual computers.

The fact that someone actually avoids any scenario involving a submarine just emphasizes how badly the game currently runs since this is modern warfare and most scenarios have at least one submarine unit included. If one player avoids ASW for bugs and another avoids AAW for bugs, there really is not much left to play.

I, too, prefer H3 for much the same reasons. It would be nice if ANW worked well enough and was sufficiently stable to play and write scenarios, but the fact that scenarios written in one ANW version simply do not work in latter ANW versions will prevent many authors from spending time creating them. I remember one new designer enjoying himself as he used v3.9.3 to write a scenario ( http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1932190 ) only to find that once it was published, v3.9.4 was released and it no longer worked. I have not seen him try to write any more scenarios and I do not blame him in the least.

There certainly were bugs in H3, too. However, they were known and the game was stable enough so that users could work around them. That is just not the case with ANW.

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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/29/2010 11:40:41 AM   
hermanhum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FreekS

I would love to use ANW SE, as it has several features that are great. However, as my experience is that scene built with ANW are not always forward compatible to newer versions of ANW, can never be played in 3.6 (which is MUCH faster and allows large scens to be played well), and the fact that I do not believe the SE has been properly tested, I build in 3.6.

I concur wholeheartedly. There are some handy new functions available from the ANW ScenEditor. Unfortunately, the price for their use is prohibitively high. Notwithstanding the debilitating Signature function implications (see My crazy database idea), your entire scenario collection would have been irreversibly corrupted by this catastrophic bug if you had used ANW ScenEditor on them at any point:
    Map windows disappear

      Map windows do not appear when file loaded. Probable cause is repeated use of Batch Re-build by Battleset function.
The only reason I was able to salvage hundreds of hours work on them was due to the fact that a copy of those scenarios was available for H3. Certainly you, I, and the entire Harpoon-playing community dodged a huge collective bullet that time by not using ANW. Phew.

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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/29/2010 3:03:01 PM   
mikmyk


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Watching you bozo's go at it is more entertaining than 3.6 or ANW at this point. Its kind of funny how clever you guys think you are trashing each other in front of the "silent majority". Wonder what the prize is


< Message edited by mikmyk -- 5/29/2010 3:10:31 PM >

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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/29/2010 4:44:07 PM   
hermanhum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FreekS

I would love to use ANW SE, as it has several features that are great. However, as my experience is that scene built with ANW are not always forward compatible to newer versions of ANW, can never be played in 3.6 (which is MUCH faster and allows large scens to be played well), and the fact that I do not believe the SE has been properly tested, I build in 3.6.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum

your entire scenario collection would have been irreversibly corrupted by this catastrophic bug if you had used ANW ScenEditor on them at any point:
    Map windows disappear

      Map windows do not appear when file loaded. Probable cause is repeated use of Batch Re-build by Battleset function.
The only reason I was able to salvage hundreds of hours work on them was due to the fact that a copy of those scenarios was available for H3. Certainly you, I, and the entire Harpoon-playing community dodged a huge collective bullet that time by not using ANW. Phew.

Unfortunately, AGSI was unable to dodge that same proverbial bullet and got hit right between the eyes when the ANW ScenEditor corrupted their entire collection of 120 OriginalDB scenarios.
    Ammo dumps emptied

      Ammo dumps in all ODb scenarios have been emptied of weapons for aircraft.


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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/30/2010 12:48:20 PM   
Nebogipfel


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Whatīs the price?

Personally, it didnīt put me off buying ANW. Beware, that there are many bugs. If I hadnīt known the bug list,
probably I would have got annoyed after buying it, but so I knew what to expect.

I donīt know what other people think about, but I like reading artistic verbal battles, without bashing each other.

Itīs true, sometimes itīs more funny than playing a game (as long as Iīm not getting angry).

And even better than a dead forum.

After playing ANW for some weeks I got the ctd issue too. I didnīt care much about,  cause my system is outdated (lack of memory, perhaps) on the other hand it happens with ported scenīs (and that coud be many!).
I did not have the time to go deeper and it would lead far away from topic.

Some evenings (after work and tired) started with playing ANW, after some ctdīs and no desire to check my whole system, I switched to other games. Iīm sure Iīm not alone with that expierence. This can be dissapointing after investing 1h or more for mission planning, only to get ctdīs after pushing the start button. Then searching for scenīs that are working the right way.

Iīm not the guy to give up soon but maybe there are some folks out there banging their head against walls after this kind of experiences.

I wrote that only to show, that ctdīs arenīt a single experience, maybe I drifted away .

Nebogipfel













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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/30/2010 8:43:27 PM   
hermanhum


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quote:

ORIGINAL:  Nebogipfel

Personally, it didnīt put me off buying ANW. Beware, that there are many bugs. If I hadnīt known the bug list, probably I would have got annoyed after buying it, but so I knew what to expect.

Information for potential customers was a primary reason for compilation of the List.
"I stopped sending bug reports to AGS about two months after I purchased the game; the only response I ever got was, "That's a known problem."

Uh.  Yeah.  So is acute appendicitis, but if I limp to the doctor and report I'm burning with fever and wracked with abdominal pain, I'm really looking for more than the mere *acknowledgement* that my concern is valid. "

-- Giftzwerg http://tinyurl.com/22mrzhx
I think it is also significant to note that AGSI's List of * Known Harpoon ANW Issues is now the only source of such information since the Bug Tracking system (supposedly eternal) is now AWOL, again (and has been since Christmas).  It could be alien abduction or maybe it had an accident with Santa's sleigh.
ORIGINAL:  rsharp@advancedgamin

The issue tracker is public and will remain so.  I repeat my invitation to everyone join in and give your feedback on an per issue basis.  I promise to give each due process and that the issue tracker will remain public.

http://hud3.harpoon5.com/mantis-1.1.1/my_view_page.php

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=1901485
quote:

ORIGINAL:  Nebogipfel

I wrote that only to show, that ctdīs arenīt a single experience,

I am certain that all the folks who reported their CTDs via this forum and those who told me about their experiences through e-mail would agree with you. 

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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/31/2010 7:46:04 AM   
Vincenzo Beretta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach
The latest 3.10 betas ran well and there a more really good new features in like boarding/takeover


Let me guess: in 3.11 we will have undersea drill plugging...

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* Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/31/2010 8:35:05 PM   
hermanhum


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That would make 3.10 "Junk Shot".

Same plan to plug the problem with "Junk" and other garbage.
Same high expectations.
Same abject failure.

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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 5/31/2010 10:21:43 PM   
Awac835


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Whats the status of a new interface that is less buggy? And maybe multi core support to speed the game up?


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RE: * Known Harpoon [ANW] Issues - 6/1/2010 9:19:44 AM   
Bucks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermanhum


Unfortunately, AGSI was unable to dodge that same proverbial bullet and got hit right between the eyes when the ANW ScenEditor corrupted their entire collection of 120 OriginalDB scenarios.
    Ammo dumps emptied

      Ammo dumps in all ODb scenarios have been emptied of weapons for aircraft.



How little you know Herman...

Did the thought cross your mind that a decision was taken to empty all magazines in light of the rebuild issue? Something about a planned deadline and lack of hands to apply to the task.

Why is it that you seemingly set yourself up as an expert on what AGSI do, when you have nothing to do with the development process?

Some of the 120 original Scenarios were not just missing magazine weapon loadouts but all of the missions for a given side. That's a legacy from Harpoon 2 and maybe you should approach 360 on that topic.

Plans are already in hand to fix and update the scenarios to overcome this issue if that's what it is... In effect turning off aircraft logistics would cure the issue for the original 120 scenarios and if you've fulfilled your role as messiah to this community, you'll have fixed what should concern you.

The rebuild function is fully operational and will correctly rebuild magazine loadouts. The issue is for thinking people closed and you're simply attempting to throw mud and have it stick.

HAGO

Darren Buckley

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