Matrix Games Forums

Space Program Manager Launch Contest Announced!Battle Academy 2 is out now on iPad!A closer look at rockets in Space Program ManagerDeal of the Week - Pride of NationsA new update for Piercing Fortress EuropaNew screenshots for War in the West!Pike & Shot is now available!Server Maintenance Battle Academy 2 gets updated!Deal of the Week: Advanced Tactics Gold
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: What's up in the WBTS world?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Gary Grigsby's War Between the States >> RE: What's up in the WBTS world? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 1/25/2011 9:55:04 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 21570
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online
It was cheaper during the Holiday sale. I think it was discounted by 30-35%.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to RangerX3X)
Post #: 31
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 1/30/2011 7:33:42 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline
For me WBTS is a better game.....The map for AEGOD is more pleasing to the eye but the Ai does some dumb things. I have bought all three games AGOED and FOF but for me WBTS is it. I also think WBTS is one of the better games produced by GG and company.
quote:

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3


quote:

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

Tried it.. couldn't get into it.. favor AGOED and FOF over this.. maybe someday I'll try it again..


I agree with cmurphy. I have FoF, Aegod's, and GGWBTS. I like the way battles are presented but I feel constrained at times. I have never been thrilled (I've never complained because why would you complain? You either like it or you don't) with the way emancipation works. I also have never liked the way I would be really struggling at the end of the game with sizes of armies/needing garrisons.

So, I put it aside.



_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to hgilmer3)
Post #: 32
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 2/12/2011 12:07:33 PM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 573
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline
I support a discount would may be made me cross the line. Gold game are sold 10 € in Europe and as I have plenty of thing to do I can wait until it goes Gold.

_____________________________


Best regards

Skanvak

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 33
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 3/3/2011 5:49:56 AM   
Capt Cliff


Posts: 1664
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline
So .... any feed back on how many people still playing this game?

After a few games I am still having a problem with Kentucky. Sure would be nice to have an historical option button that Kentucky joins the union on November 1 1861. That's what they did historically, forced the CSA to invade. The old board game called Civil War, Butterfield did it I think, had that the Union got to use the rails in October then Kentucky joined the Union in November. I don't understand why the game is set up the way it is.

_____________________________

Capt. Cliff

(in reply to RangerX3X)
Post #: 34
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 3/3/2011 9:15:05 AM   
Narses

 

Posts: 60
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline
General Polk without orders from Richmond invaded Kentucky on 3-4 September 1861 and occupied Columbus Kentucky across the Mississippi from Union forces in Belmont Missouri. That gave the pro-Union legislature the votes to request Union assistance and to overide the veto of the pro-CSA governor.

If Polk had not invaded in September or if the CSA government had condemned and reversed the act there is no telling how long some degree of Kentucky nuetrality could have been maintained.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

So .... any feed back on how many people still playing this game?

After a few games I am still having a problem with Kentucky. Sure would be nice to have an historical option button that Kentucky joins the union on November 1 1861. That's what they did historically, forced the CSA to invade. The old board game called Civil War, Butterfield did it I think, had that the Union got to use the rails in October then Kentucky joined the Union in November. I don't understand why the game is set up the way it is.



(in reply to Capt Cliff)
Post #: 35
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 3/4/2011 5:14:52 AM   
martok


Posts: 807
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline
I'm still tinkering around with it, although I have yet to truly get into a campaign. I like most of what I've seen, but it's not the most user-friendly game I've ever played; the difficulty curve is pretty steep.



_____________________________

"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal


(in reply to Capt Cliff)
Post #: 36
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 3/4/2011 4:58:20 PM   
Capt Cliff


Posts: 1664
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline
Yes, I see now that a blunder by Polk uncorked the Dinji!!

_____________________________

Capt. Cliff

(in reply to martok)
Post #: 37
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 11/1/2011 7:39:19 PM   
WriterJWA


Posts: 57
Joined: 6/24/2009
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
This post is a bit old, but I've been playing the heck out of WBTS recently, learned a lot via the manual and Joel Billings, and thought I'd add my two cents.

I've played both WBTS and AGEod ACW and both are currently installed and sometimes it's a tough choice between the two.  AGEod is beautiful, but it a bit of a graphics bear, and even looks a little cartoon-y for my tastes.  I'm a "Union Man" so to speak, and love the challenges presented a Union player (leadership, public support, etc...), and I think AGEod manages to capture the dilemma of the early-war leadership problems, especially with regards to initiative.  The CS AI, however, is a bit gamey.  I've had to chase independent Confederate infantry brigades that slip through the detection cracks in the border as far north as Chicago and beyond.  That's a heck of a long way to march while foraging for supplies in a hostile country.  Units can move a bit too fast for two week turns.  It took a month for two armies to tactically move from the Rappahannock to Gettysburg.  WBTS does seem to have this problem.  In fact, in some regards I'd say it's a little restrictive (a larger, more detailed map might solve this). 

I love the map in AGEod ACW!  It's very well put together.  Not so much graphically, which is nice, but that it is very expansive and detailed.  I'd say it's close to twice the size of WBTS with twice as many regions.  If there were to ever be a re-invention of WBTS, this would be the first thing I'd recommend.   A larger map would give me more opportunity to use maneuver tactics, which is crucial for both sides out West.  A large map of the US drawn up much the way it is done in WITE would be unbelievable!

The production system in WTBS is (IMO) much better and easier to "deal with."  In AGEod, you practically have to micromanage production to the regimental/brigade level, across the entire front, which can get old, and makes it easy to lose track of units.  I like the fact that I can put production on autopilot.  It might be a noob move, but it's worked out SO FAR.  Also, the level of detail in the units in AGEod make the game a bit of a bear when conducting operations.  The supply system is a bit too intricate and a puzzle by itself whereas WBTS seems to not be so.  Also, AGEod has historical-based events that, IMO, drag players in directions they may not want to go.  There are political announcements and the like which though likely accurate in the timelines of the ACW, may not be so depending on the actions of the player filling in for Lincoln or Davis.  I don't like engines that force decisions on me and WBTS manages to keep that to a minimum, Emancipation Proclamation being an exception. 

WBTS has NATO counters.  AGEod does not.  10 points for WBTS.  Period.

Also, the WBTS video tutorials are amazing!  I think that's a must for companies that produce complex wargames!  Well done! 

(But Y U no make production video???)

WBTS is a much "tighter" game, it seems.  I haven't had a crash yet while AGEod crashes with some regularity (and I'm rocking an i5 w/ 4gig mem) and doesn't have half the support.  AGEod is moddable, but it's instability make it a dangerous one to do so with.  WBTS could benefit from some modding capabilities and a scenarios editor/designer.  AGEod has a much larger scenario list that deals with specific theaters and time frames.

I'd argue that the ACW is probably one of the hardest wars to develop a meaningful strategy game for because of the amount of variables in it. The political and social "what-if's" are a lot more prevalent than in a game about the Pacific War or the advance through Russia, so my hat is off to anyone that manages to pull a game off.  Anyone expecting a mild learning curve to a operational/strategic game depicting the Civil War should expect a "phoned-in" game as far as its design is concerned.

On my ACW gamer dream list include a larger, updated WBTS/AGEod hybrid without the wood-and-nail GUI campiness and/or a computerization of the operational-level Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series that allows for both operational and tactical levels of play.  I suppose I'll keep dreaming...... LOL






_____________________________

Jay
USMC '98-'06
0311-4341

"Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Omar Bradley

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. "
- Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Capt Cliff)
Post #: 38
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 12/26/2011 1:46:16 AM   
MikeS369

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 9/27/2004
Status: offline
I was thinking about buying this game until I saw the price. $34 for a 3 1/2 year old game. I'll stick with FOF and AGeod ACW.

(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 39
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 12/26/2011 2:34:40 PM   
lparkh


Posts: 325
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline
Well I haven't played your alternatives but this is a very rich and subtle game. The emphasis on leadership, supply, scouting, is pretty good for a study of the Civil War IMHO. That being said the AI can be beaten pretty easily after a few games even on the hard levels. So you'll want human opponents eventually. There is a club that posts here occasionally to find opponents. I found an opponent and the game is very rich Human vs Human.
So if you are keen on the civil war you are missing something by giving this up. But I understand if you think the $$ are too high.

p.s. I only started playing this seriously about a year ago. So I am not a 2008 fanboy lingering :-)

< Message edited by lparkh -- 12/26/2011 2:35:50 PM >

(in reply to MikeS369)
Post #: 40
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 12/28/2011 6:46:46 PM   
jonboym


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/6/2010
From: Exeter, UK
Status: offline
This is a great post. I have both games and agree with your appraisal. Both are great games with as you'd expect different pros and cons. In my opinion WBTS is the more stable and polished game and reproduces very historical results, while AACW is much more detailed with a better mapbut a bit buggy and ridiculous AI raids deep into Union territory.

I heartily agree that WBTS has regions that are too big and dividing them up with a bigger map would allow much more movement, currently WBTS doesn't reproduce explicitly the war of manouvre that happened early in ACW, you could argue it's happening within each battle as the regions are big and the turns a month.

I really hope Joel & Gary revisit the ACW for a WBTS 2. In it I'd like to see:-

1) Fix the confusing amphibious interface, ie prevent ground units being placed on ships, only allow the correct amphibious invasion (if enough transport points)

2) Larger map with more smaller regions. Will help encourage more fighting in the East as game tends to result in all the action in the West.

3) Better interface, and quicker turn resolution. I'd love to see the interface rehashed as currently you have to rely too much on the e button and replays. Maybe have a results phase in PBEM that shows all battles on the map and allows player to click each to get info on the battle.
Also all wargames seem to suffer from long slow turn resolutions often which could be speeded up (eg I don't want to have to wait for each enemy cavalry scouting report as turn resolves, again better to have a screen/phase that shows enemy scouting as icons on map that can be clicked for more info)

4) Get rid of weird CSC system and have proper corps and divisions. At the moment the CSC rule unblanaces game one way or the other. CSCs on favours CSA, off favours USA, ideal is middle ground so CSA leadrship balances USA numbers.

5) More modabilty, encourages longevity

6) More scenarios and what ifs (easier if bigger map), again encourages longevity.

7) Better AI if poss.

8) The leader ratings might be better if they all rated out the same range. At the moment most are rated out of 4 with admin rated out of 6. Might be better to rate all out of either 6 or 10 as at the moment the difference between a level 3 and level 4 leader is too great, if instead the rating were out of 6 or 10 the diffence between rating would be less abrupt.

9) Admin rating. Not sure this should be used for both engineers and theatre command. Skills of good engineers and good theatre commanders are not the same? Maybe change to two ratings called strategic and engineering skill?

10) Forts too easy to build level 1 forts. Maybe just have a gradual entrenching of armies that don't move or fight instead and make real forts a big commitment of supplies and mainly for river and coastal defence

11) Tweak factory builds. Too easy for CSA to get round blockade by building lots of factories and once they are online being totally self-sufficient.

Whatever Joel & Gary should be proud, IMHO its their best game for playability and realism, not as overwhelming as War in Pacific or War in the East but still deep and is great for PBEM play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterJWA

This post is a bit old, but I've been playing the heck out of WBTS recently, learned a lot via the manual and Joel Billings, and thought I'd add my two cents.

I've played both WBTS and AGEod ACW and both are currently installed and sometimes it's a tough choice between the two.  AGEod is beautiful, but it a bit of a graphics bear, and even looks a little cartoon-y for my tastes.  I'm a "Union Man" so to speak, and love the challenges presented a Union player (leadership, public support, etc...), and I think AGEod manages to capture the dilemma of the early-war leadership problems, especially with regards to initiative.  The CS AI, however, is a bit gamey.  I've had to chase independent Confederate infantry brigades that slip through the detection cracks in the border as far north as Chicago and beyond.  That's a heck of a long way to march while foraging for supplies in a hostile country.  Units can move a bit too fast for two week turns.  It took a month for two armies to tactically move from the Rappahannock to Gettysburg.  WBTS does seem to have this problem.  In fact, in some regards I'd say it's a little restrictive (a larger, more detailed map might solve this). 

I love the map in AGEod ACW!  It's very well put together.  Not so much graphically, which is nice, but that it is very expansive and detailed.  I'd say it's close to twice the size of WBTS with twice as many regions.  If there were to ever be a re-invention of WBTS, this would be the first thing I'd recommend.   A larger map would give me more opportunity to use maneuver tactics, which is crucial for both sides out West.  A large map of the US drawn up much the way it is done in WITE would be unbelievable!

The production system in WTBS is (IMO) much better and easier to "deal with."  In AGEod, you practically have to micromanage production to the regimental/brigade level, across the entire front, which can get old, and makes it easy to lose track of units.  I like the fact that I can put production on autopilot.  It might be a noob move, but it's worked out SO FAR.  Also, the level of detail in the units in AGEod make the game a bit of a bear when conducting operations.  The supply system is a bit too intricate and a puzzle by itself whereas WBTS seems to not be so.  Also, AGEod has historical-based events that, IMO, drag players in directions they may not want to go.  There are political announcements and the like which though likely accurate in the timelines of the ACW, may not be so depending on the actions of the player filling in for Lincoln or Davis.  I don't like engines that force decisions on me and WBTS manages to keep that to a minimum, Emancipation Proclamation being an exception. 

WBTS has NATO counters.  AGEod does not.  10 points for WBTS.  Period.

Also, the WBTS video tutorials are amazing!  I think that's a must for companies that produce complex wargames!  Well done! 

(But Y U no make production video???)

WBTS is a much "tighter" game, it seems.  I haven't had a crash yet while AGEod crashes with some regularity (and I'm rocking an i5 w/ 4gig mem) and doesn't have half the support.  AGEod is moddable, but it's instability make it a dangerous one to do so with.  WBTS could benefit from some modding capabilities and a scenarios editor/designer.  AGEod has a much larger scenario list that deals with specific theaters and time frames.

I'd argue that the ACW is probably one of the hardest wars to develop a meaningful strategy game for because of the amount of variables in it. The political and social "what-if's" are a lot more prevalent than in a game about the Pacific War or the advance through Russia, so my hat is off to anyone that manages to pull a game off.  Anyone expecting a mild learning curve to a operational/strategic game depicting the Civil War should expect a "phoned-in" game as far as its design is concerned.

On my ACW gamer dream list include a larger, updated WBTS/AGEod hybrid without the wood-and-nail GUI campiness and/or a computerization of the operational-level Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series that allows for both operational and tactical levels of play.  I suppose I'll keep dreaming...... LOL








< Message edited by jonboym -- 1/12/2012 12:02:05 PM >

(in reply to WriterJWA)
Post #: 41
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 12/29/2011 9:46:14 PM   
CLEVELAND

 

Posts: 461
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
Status: offline
I agree with the points Jon has made. Currently we are playing PBEM and so far it's been a real pleasure to play this way. After my second and third games against the Union AI I won handily, not so in this PBEM game. It's been a war of nerves and after every turn I rethink the things I've done to the point of madness.

I like the way game portrays the west and as the South I appreciate the total chaos of the western leadership system.

Also, I just sent Lee north into Maryland (Jon knows this so I'm not giving anything away) and it's been a real "now what do I do" situation. Jeb Stuart is a real boon to the south but now I know what the commanders were up against- send him raiding or use him for intelligence gathering.

I played Guns of August PBEM and had the same feeling- something somewhere is going to go badly wrong and do I have a Plan B?

Well done effort by the designers and developers.


(in reply to jonboym)
Post #: 42
RE: What's up in the WBTS world? - 1/12/2012 11:27:37 AM   
jonboym


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/6/2010
From: Exeter, UK
Status: offline
Hi Cleveland,

Yeah been a great PBEM so far and your comeback in 1863 has been masterly to say the least and vexing to the extreme for me. Not played with CSCs before and you're really showing me a thing or two!

Now to plot my own comeback.... can the Union scrape a win in 1864 or will the CSA get its independence?

Jon

< Message edited by jonboym -- 3/18/2012 12:42:22 AM >

(in reply to CLEVELAND)
Post #: 43
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Gary Grigsby's War Between the States >> RE: What's up in the WBTS world? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.078