Refund Possible?

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Sigh
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:07 am

Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

Is there any hope whatsoever in getting a refund? I cant believe I paid $60+ for this

edit: well seeing i have the game already downloaded i guess prob not.. *sigh*

well i hope the updates make this playable. I can tell there is a decent (maybe even good/great) game hidden here but right now its a complete waste of time and money
Joram
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Joram »

Is it because of a bug or some design feature that you decide you don't really like the game?  Maybe someone here can help you out?
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BigWolfChris
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by BigWolfChris »

Indeed, what reason do you not like the game?

If you just say you don't like it, no-one can help, and it will probably be a waste of money

If you say why, then such things could be explained, or maybe altered in the future

Though, personally I hope you're not a troll
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drillerman
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by drillerman »

I say Sigh, Tell me what bit you find unplayable. I have had some quite good games so far..............................................AND STILL NO CRASHES EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:D][:D][:D]
Huh?
OberonDark
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by OberonDark »

Uh. You're doing something wrong if it's unplayable. Even if that means that you're leaving decisions to the AI, which can be considered "wrong". You won't get a refund, it's just not happening. Suck it up, try to enjoy it, or put it on your shelf.

Also, how do you end up paying $60 for it? It's $40 for digital download or $50 for physical/physical + digital. And then it's 5 bucks for digital river. Did you buy it from the shady guy on the street corner?

Now the sentimental part: When I first got R:TW, I thought it was complicated and annoying to play. I picked it up a few years later and was like, WOMG, and bought every total war game since. You might want to try it later after patches, which make an already playable game better.
Sigh
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

I doubt these things are anything anybody can help me with. Most of them are just plain awful design decisions. If I AM mistaken with anything here then it's still pretty bad as they should be easily accessible (although I apologize up front then as i guess they would be excusable.. kinda). And bugs are inexcusable. Just because you can work around a bug doesn't make it any less terrible.

1. Why give components random names that are impossible to identify (without actually learning the whole tech tree by heart). It may seem super creative when you name something "Talassos AR5" or "MegaTron Z4"  but how about thinking about the PLAYER who has no freaking clue what that is supposed to be. I guess MegaTron is the better one since it has mega in it... This is problematic during both Ship design and ESPECIALLY during diplomatic trading. (even more so when your offered something for a crap load of cash). During trading at least it tells you what kind of component it is (wow) but not the level. When your offered something.. well you get to guess. Would right clicking on the object to get some info be to much to ask? Would adding some sort of description to the name be possible like "Shields 4".. Or allow the player to hover the mouse over the item to at least get the research type/level? It doesnt help that the manual doesnt even have a list..

2. Automation vs Micromanagement.. Yeah.. I like how the automation is advertised as if it were something special but really all it does if give you the choice between "MANAGE EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF X" or  "YOU GET TO DEAL WITH EVERY LITTLE INANE DETAIL OF X" There just arn't enough options. Not that it should be like Space Empires V where deciding what gets automated is a game in itself but whats the big deal? Either you let the game play itself or you manage every inane detail. Basically Automation vs Non-Automation does not work seamlessly... See next complaint:

3. Micromanagement.. This is where my forum nick comes from.. For a game that advertises the automation this is way beyond acceptable.. So If I want to build a station somewhere this is what i have to do:

 I have to find a constructor ship (yes i know there is a menu for this).. Leave the selection menu.. send it to its destination to build. (maybe even have to zoom in to set it exactly where it should go)... wait for it to get half there.. learn that it has run out of fuel... tell it to refuel at the next refueling station watch it IGNORE the resupply station that is right next to it and zoom off to some other system.. refuel... tell it to go build that damn station... repeat. All the while im being attacked constantly by pirates and whatnot :rolleyes: Also when this retard of a constructor is finished with its cue it is no longer set to automatic. So if i should forget about it (while doing the same with some other constructor) well.. too bad.. Its a waste of a ship/maintenance

Let me show you an alternative method that a sane game would use:

Select location for station, select space station from list, place station, "Automation" takes over the rest.

If your going to sucker me into paying 60 dollars by advertising this oh so great automation at least make it worthwhile..

4. Several other things including: My ships entering enemy territory for reasons like refuiling.. and a war erupting because of it, The hassle of finding and placing the correct ships into a fleet... bla bla and so on and so on

Thats just a sample of what is really getting to me. Frankly I dont see why i should even be wasting my time typing this anymore as ill prob get a lot of fanboys giving me worthless "explanations" or workarounds because they cant admit that a game they like is subpar.

I'm still giving this a chance.. because as said it seems like it could be a decent game (And because I paid 65 dollars..). Of course that means if i start getting into it a bit ill prob notice other things like: Your empire falling apart once you hit a certain size because of rebellions that always happen (read about that one), prob some terrible economic balance, AI is prob retarded (it already seems very random using diplomacy...), Memory leaks (although i guess the patches so far have helped there). Maybe I sound very unfairly pessimistic but the game is taking on this pattern.. So i have no reason to think otherwise.

Well.. I've read that Matrix Games is known to release unfinished products so MAYBE the patches will fix this game up. I'm hoping so.

Sigh
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

ORIGINAL: OberonDark

Uh. You're doing something wrong if it's unplayable.
Yes I'm losing patience with terrible design. My bad
Joram
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Joram »

ORIGINAL: Sigh

I doubt these things are anything anybody can help me with. Most of them are just plain awful design decisions. If I AM mistaken with anything here then it's still pretty bad as they should be easily accessible (although I apologize up front then as i guess they would be excusable.. kinda). And bugs are inexcusable. Just because you can work around a bug doesn't make it any less terrible.

1. Why give components random names that are impossible to identify (without actually learning the whole tech tree by heart). It may seem super creative when you name something "Talassos AR5" or "MegaTron Z4"  but how about thinking about the PLAYER who has no freaking clue what that is supposed to be. I guess MegaTron is the better one since it has mega in it... This is problematic during both Ship design and ESPECIALLY during diplomatic trading. (even more so when your offered something for a crap load of cash). During trading at least it tells you what kind of component it is (wow) but not the level. When your offered something.. well you get to guess. Would right clicking on the object to get some info be to much to ask? Would adding some sort of description to the name be possible like "Shields 4".. Or allow the player to hover the mouse over the item to at least get the research type/level? It doesnt help that the manual doesnt even have a list..

2. Automation vs Micromanagement.. Yeah.. I like how the automation is advertised as if it were something special but really all it does if give you the choice between "MANAGE EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF X" or  "YOU GET TO DEAL WITH EVERY LITTLE INANE DETAIL OF X" There just arn't enough options. Not that it should be like Space Empires V where deciding what gets automated is a game in itself but whats the big deal? Either you let the game play itself or you manage every inane detail. Basically Automation vs Non-Automation does not work seamlessly... See next complaint:

3. Micromanagement.. This is where my forum nick comes from.. For a game that advertises the automation this is way beyond acceptable.. So If I want to build a station somewhere this is what i have to do:

I have to find a constructor ship (yes i know there is a menu for this).. Leave the selection menu.. send it to its destination to build. (maybe even have to zoom in to set it exactly where it should go)... wait for it to get half there.. learn that it has run out of fuel... tell it to refuel at the next refueling station watch it IGNORE the resupply station that is right next to it and zoom off to some other system.. refuel... tell it to go build that damn station... repeat. All the while im being attacked constantly by pirates and whatnot :rolleyes: Also when this retard of a constructor is finished with its cue it is no longer set to automatic. So if i should forget about it (while doing the same with some other constructor) well.. too bad.. Its a waste of a ship/maintenance

Let me show you an alternative method that a sane game would use:

Select location for station, select space station from list, place station, "Automation" takes over the rest.

If your going to sucker me into paying 60 dollars by advertising this oh so great automation at least make it worthwhile..

4. Several other things including: My ships entering enemy territory for reasons like refuiling.. and a war erupting because of it, The hassle of finding and placing the correct ships into a fleet... bla bla and so on and so on

Thats just a sample of what is really getting to me. Frankly I dont see why i should even be wasting my time typing this anymore as ill prob get a lot of fanboys giving me worthless "explanations" or workarounds because they cant admit that a game they like is subpar.

I'm still giving this a chance.. because as said it seems like it could be a decent game (And because I paid 65 dollars..). Of course that means if i start getting into it a bit ill prob notice other things like: Your empire falling apart once you hit a certain size because of rebellions that always happen (read about that one), prob some terrible economic balance, AI is prob retarded (it already seems very random using diplomacy...), Memory leaks (although i guess the patches so far have helped there). Maybe I sound very unfairly pessimistic but the game is taking on this pattern.. So i have no reason to think otherwise.

Well.. I've read that Matrix Games is known to release unfinished products so MAYBE the patches will fix this game up. I'm hoping so.
Wow $65? You must be in a place with a very poor exchange rate. Sorry to hear that, I'd probably want my money back too! :)

Regarding the rest, well, what is there to say that you just have a fundamental disagreement with the vision of the game. I can't help you because I don't find anything you say as a real problem however you present a couple good ideas. Hope you stick with it. Good luck.
Sigh
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

well its 65$ if you count the physical copy + shipping (normal) + download insurance.

And no i dont really think i have a problem with the vision of the game. In fact i think thats what i actually like! :)

I mean the "not being able to identify technology on the go" thing should be a generic function found in any game. I seriously doubt its part of the games vision to make it a guessing game ;)

I know i come off as an ass but its more towards the fact that the game seems rushed. not the designers/game in general

HsojVvad
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by HsojVvad »

You have very valid points why you do not like the game. Yes there is a very steep learning curve to the game. What you complain about the names of the components, I like it. I hated in lots of 4X games, it's lazers 1, next tech is lazer 2, next tech is lazers 3. I like the different names, means the creators put some thought into it. Now you have a very valid point that itn's not implimented very well. I hate when a race comes to me and wants me to sell something and I have no idea what it is. It would be nice if you could click on the name and the galactopedia would open up and explain what it is.

I have alot of complaints about the game as well, but Matrix and CodeForce are addressing the issues as quick as they can. I would strongly suggest that if you are going to try and have ago with this game, that you go into the Disntant World forum, and go to the sticky and put in your wish list. It dosn't matter if it was said before, voice your concerns. Maybe they will be addressed in a patch, or if you have some great ideas, that are not buggy, then they can be implemented in an update or expasion pack.

If you don't voice all your concerns, then they can't be addressed. Erik and Elliot are doing their best to fix what they can. In less than 2 weeks they released 3 patches to help people with their concerns. A new beta patch should be coming out at the end of the week if I am not mistaken so try it out.

You did update to the latest patch have you? I don't think they address your problems, but I think 1.04 might. Check out the sticky on what they plan to do, see if you like anything in there as well.

Also where do you see the developers working so close to us and working to address our problems or complaints. Yes it's inexcusable for a buggy game, but I never seen 2 guys work so hard to fix this game and make most people happy.
Habadacus
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Habadacus »

I am less disappointed with my purchase that you are, Sigh. I don't think that makes me a fanboy, and I agree with you that workarounds are not fun, because that's not you playing the game, but the game playing you. Still, I'm very optimistic, because despite the headache-inducing font, needlessly complicated ship design/upgrade layout, fuel micro hell, etc., I still find myself enjoying the game and wishing for more. The game came out only a few weeks ago and they've since improved it a lot, and have already announced plans for the next update.

This tells me they give half a crap about their fans/customers and don't intend to walk away from their project unlike some PC developers I could think of. They know they can't please everyone, but I only see the game getting better, and I find myself intrigued with it now. Most games these days that don't grab me I just shelve, but the problems with this one really bother me because it's so close to being the premier space 4X. I'm happy to support their cause with my $40, even though every game I've played so far has completely devolved into madness and anarchy mid to late game.

Not a workaround, but try this for fun: Start a 400 star game on a ring map. Set yourself to start in the core. Give yourself an excellent world and advanced tech (lvl 3). Manually add a few races set to start far away from you so they'll start in the ring. Give them excellent worlds, starting colonies and lvl 2 tech. Set max pirates and aliens and let the aliens start new empires. It's like playing MOO from the Masters of Orion's perspective. It gives you time to build up and figure out what resources are coming from where, lots of pirates to raise your rep, and the other races are far away and easier to not piss off. Also, try playing the Haakonen or whatever those fish looking guys are called. They start out with the mega-fuel cell, which helps reduce a lot of the annoying gas station attendant duties in the early game. Plus they get an economy bonus and cheaper fleet maintenance, which is just great.

I've made it pretty far along with that set up.
Sigh
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

Heh well im not looking for a way to make the game easier.. in fact im scared that it will become too easy (ive been playing this stuff since civ1/moo1/MOM). I just dont want it to become a challenge because of design issues :P

As said ill be keeping an eye out for the patches. If they can just reduce/nullify some of the aggravating aspects im sure the game will be good.
Sigh
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

[edit]: nevermind ill just keep it to myself and hope it gets better ^^
aVoided
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by aVoided »

I some what sympathize with the OP. The game is good and I do have hope for it, (key word hope) but at it's price there is no reason we should be beta testing, at 40-60$ a copy. I feel a bit ripped off, esspecialy when I look at the HUGE row of games this company has on it's header... you would think that means *experienced*. (or over worked?? lol)

All I can say is if I wanted to beta test these games I would apply for it as a volunteer not pay for it. I Pay for a finished product. Sadly as in this case we are forced into this role here. This would be one of the first PC games in a LONG time I have bought fresh off of release and only reinforces (in my view) why pc gamming is losing to the console (unfrotunatly). It is why people like me (I'm sure there is more) who haven't bought a game fresh off the shelf for a pc in YEARS (the last game I bought off the shelf was Civ IV) , and wait for most games to be at least 6 months to a year old when it comes to pc games to purchase them.

Ask yourself this question out loud :

How many patches does the average pc game today, take before it has a some what finished feel to it [&:] like it should be at release with a price tag of 40-65$ .. or even higher..


1? 2? 3? 5? 10? I would say most games for pc these days is a minimum of 3 to 5 patches to start feeling like something that is worthy of a finished feel, worth a full price new release tag of 40-60$ yet by the time I buy it for this very reason, it's either A) used B) reduced c) in the bargain bin. In which almost all of these cases is next to zero revenue for a game if not even a loss... At this point I will compliment the devs on thier 2 patches is just a couple weeks. Some buggy releases take up to a month or even more before they see thier first patch. Kudos here..

A lot of the bugs currently are very silly for a 4x managment game. The amount of bugs in this one along with the *types* of bugs makes me wonder if there was any internal testing at all... Did no devs play this game for an extended period of time in development to realize ships are not retrofitting? How about attacking abandoned ships crashing the game. All these issues with automated (and use of the upgrade button on ship fitting) did no dev ever try to customize or upgrade a ship in thier testing? How about the sheer amount of clicking involved with hundreds of ships. 500+ military ships in a game and you need to click each one, one ata time to retrofit (if it even worked at all). Issuing mass orders from simple ship lists... non existant. Fine you are slowly patching this now, but did we really have to pay and tell you ourselves these issues. I truly do not believe the devs themselves have even played thier own game, at least for an extended period of of time, much less at least hired some internal testers.

I have since shelved the game and will pop back in, in a few weeks, and see how it is once I see v1.06.. or higher.. I love the style of it and it has potential but once you hit 300+ military ships the game becomes a chore. (the automation is worthless imo)





Want to ignore my wall of text just read this paragraph [:D]

So to conclude my rant. I agree with both sides. We have what could be a great game. We all know games have bugs, but the amount of them on RELEASE is just ridiculous in a lot of games. It's a general practise in the gamming industry now that we as the consumer / gamer have become an ocean of free game testers to developers and producers releasing sub standard and untested games RELYING on those pre-orders and new release customers to do thier testing work for them. It's obviously a trend that's increasing A LOT. Sadly most of the gamers today accept this and in most cases will defend a developer for this practise. [:-] It's a sad age in the infancy of gamming...

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drillerman
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by drillerman »

Sigh,

I do know how you feel. I bought games on the back of positive forum posts etc, and found it is just not my thing and could not understand what the fuss was about. However, in the case of DW I am willing to put up with some of these things because I enjoy the whole concept of DW and assume because it is Matrix is WILL get better!!

Sorry you don't like the game, it is disappointing for someone when this happens.[:(]
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Anthropoid
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Anthropoid »

Hey Sigh, I can see how some of the game elements you describe could be frustrating the first time you get into one of these types of games. But the idea is that it is a challenge and a gradual learning of a "new ecology." It is not just sit down and veg out kind of game where you don't have to learn. If you think of it that way, consider it a long term investment. It took me about 3 years with War in the Pacific (a similarly steep-learning curve game) before I really 'mastered' it against the AI.
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Joram
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Joram »

ORIGINAL: Sigh

well its 65$ if you count the physical copy + shipping (normal) + download insurance.

And no i dont really think i have a problem with the vision of the game. In fact i think thats what i actually like! :)

I mean the "not being able to identify technology on the go" thing should be a generic function found in any game. I seriously doubt its part of the games vision to make it a guessing game ;)

I know i come off as an ass but its more towards the fact that the game seems rushed. not the designers/game in general


Well, that's good that you like the vision then because the issues in front of you can be addressed. I agree the GUI needs some work and you have a good idea there.

The developers are pretty responsive so while I understand it's not your job to do this, you're not a beta tester after all, writing out your ideas may result in some changes.
Sigh
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

The game should be playable before its released. There is NO argument against this.

Bugs happen (im a developer myself ;) ) but the ones that occur after release should be hidden bugs that are hard to spot during beta testing. This game feels like it hasnt even been beta tested.

What im wondering is if the developers are at fault or if matrix force-rushed them.

Either way its inexcusable.

Yes I have already ranted enough probably. Well sorry right now its the only real satisfaction i can get out of this mess
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2ndACR
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by 2ndACR »

 You need to have some faith. I have not bought a game from anyone but Matrix in about 4 years, I own about 15 titles from them. Matrix does not rush their devs and they have the best support I have ever seen from a game company/publisher.

 This game is very playable right out of the box. Granted, it has it's quirks, but these will be smoothed out with some time.  I understand your frustration, but trust us (even though we are just internet peeps). Those of us that have been around Matrix a long time are here for a reason. The us-surpassed support for the games they publish.
Sigh
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RE: Refund Possible?

Post by Sigh »

everybody's so understanding it almost makes me feel bad lol
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