Price

Can the Blitzkrieg be stopped? Across the Dnepr: Second Edition revisits a classic on a new system. Created from the ground up as an expansion for SSG’s latest acclaimed game engine, Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets, the Second Edition of Across the Dnepr includes Areas of Operations, the latest AI programming and multiple Mystery Variants to keep gamers guessing. Also includes 3 free scenarios in addition to the Across the Dnepr mega-scenario: Operation Husky, Operation Konrad and Kirovograd
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DBeves
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Price

Post by DBeves »

Well - I bought it ...

But I have to say - that is expensive for a one scenario expansion.
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freeboy
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RE: Price

Post by freeboy »

I thought it had several other scenarios...
I saw Husky listed?
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DBeves
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RE: Price

Post by DBeves »

it had several other scenarios

Yes - but they are all free with the Karkhov update.
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freeboy
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RE: Price

Post by freeboy »

 ok, I understand.. 
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ComradeP
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RE: Price

Post by ComradeP »

Initially, there was talk about a discount for people who owned the original. I might've completely missed it in my hurry to buy the game, though.

The price is medium-high indeed, but you essentially pay for two SSG created scenarios, even though one is also available for free.

Like Kharkov, you essentially pay for 1 scenario and an editor, but at least in this case additional scenarios are included in the package. We would all have liked more scenarios, but SSG has already more or less promised to re-release the original Battles in Italy scenarios for free, Husky being the first.
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TargAK
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RE: Price

Post by TargAK »

I called digital rivers and they have no clue about a discount for previous owners of ATD?

Odd really [&:]
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Price

Post by Erik Rutins »

The Across the Dnepr mega-scenario is basically in and of itself more content than the original Kharkov release, hence the price point. The three free scenarios in the Kharkov update are also included in the ATD release, but you can get them either way as a thank you from SSG and the scenario design community to Kharkov fans around the world. Lots of extra gaming with all the benefits of the new engine.
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Price

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: TARG
I called digital rivers and they have no clue about a discount for previous owners of ATD?
Odd really [&:]

There is no separate discount as it was unfortunately impossible to do that because our records of the original ATD purchases are incomplete. It was one of the first releases we did through our current system and things were not quite as well organized back then. The current price was set with that in mind.

Also, since Across the Dnepr was originally released seven years ago and this new one had to be created from the ground up for the new engine, I think setting the price slightly lower than usual with the expansion model rather than going for full price with a special discount works just as well.
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DBeves
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RE: Price

Post by DBeves »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The Across the Dnepr mega-scenario is basically in and of itself more content than the original Kharkov release, hence the price point. The three free scenarios in the Kharkov update are also included in the ATD release, but you can get them either way as a thank you from SSG and the scenario design community to Kharkov fans around the world. Lots of extra gaming with all the benefits of the new engine.


Well - I am not sure about that Erik - as someone who already owns the original ATD I would say I already have the map and most of the research / graphics ?

Sorry - but - as I say - if this was a new battle fine ... but I wonder how much new stuff is in this release to warrant a full price release ?

Again - as I say I bought it - but I am afraid I am a little disappointed in the price ...
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RE: Price

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: DBeves
Well - I am not sure about that Erik - as someone who already owns the original ATD I would say I already have the map and most of the research / graphics ?

If you own Kharkov, then you've just got three scenarios for free in addition to a new paid expansion. The new Across the Dnepr, while it's based on the same battle campaign as the original, did require quite a bit more research and work to implement in the new engine and AI. I think you will find that although the original was great, it is a much better scenario and challenge with the Kharkov engine and all its features.
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TargAK
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RE: Price

Post by TargAK »

Even though I purchased the new add on I must say I feel somewhat dissapointed.

Some goodwill has been lost today.

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EisenHammer
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RE: Price

Post by EisenHammer »

I do not know about the price but if it helps SSG too release more scenarios then I'll gladly pay.
Also does anyone else have the Kalach Bridge scenario in their game now?
I don't remember downloading this scenario before.
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RE: Price

Post by Erik Rutins »

TARG,
ORIGINAL: TARG
Even though I purchased the new add on I must say I feel somewhat dissapointed.

What disappointed you, exactly?

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ComradeP
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RE: Price

Post by ComradeP »

I probably have every beta and full scenario out there for Kharkov installed Eisenhammer, so I'm not sure if Kalatsch was somehow included in the release too.

The lack of a discount isn't something I'm happy with, as it was clearly promised earlier and generally the communication to the fans has been fairly poor. However, I don't blame that entirely on SSG, as they had various troubles of their own and are simply not a big development team/studio so if a few extra euro's helps them in some way, that's fine with me.

For those thinking the price is high: you might be right from various perspectives, but keep in mind that you also essentially pay to support the development of future scenarios for the engine. I'd also strongly suggest that you visit the official forums at ssg.com.au/forums as the vast majority of all scenarios are never truly officially released and posted on the SSG custom scenarios page or elsewhere.

I've been editing/unofficially updating scenarios for about a year now, and nothing I've done is officially hosted as it isn't an official version of the scenario.

The Husky 2 scenario includes some errors in the editor, which I'll try to fix unofficially by tomorrow. There are also some odd things in the ATD scenario, like SSG's tendency to make all artillery motorized/tracked and in this case basically sentencing the majority of the Soviet artillery to death. I'll probably edit that at some point too, although of course that edited version won't be official. Perhaps the changes to the editor will at one point be official through a patch as they won't really effect the scenario.

I own the Decisive Battles series (including the original ATD), Battlefront and Kharkov (including ATD2 now) and SSG still has my support. Their prices might be somewhat steep, true, but they do offer great support to the community. The sad thing is that only a small part of the community is active on the official forums, so many people might not have known that Kirovograd has been available for a year, albeit officially in "beta" stage (the differences between the current version and the beta are minimal) just to name one example. I guess that if you only played the regular Kharkov scenario, it was possibly too expensive, just like ATD2 might be too expensive if you just play the scenarios that are included and nothing released afterwards.
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JudgeDredd
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RE: Price

Post by JudgeDredd »

I have to join in with the "OUCH!" - but...

On the one hand - it was as I expected. SSG are not cheap. They never have been and it doesn't look like they are going to change that any time soon.

On the other hand...I said "OUCH!" about Kharkov:Disaster on the Donetz - but I eventually bought it and I was very, very impressed. The quality of the product is immense and the gaming system is spot on - with particular "mention in dispatches" being given to the Areas of Operation and the variety that they entail.

What I was trying to say was I understand the "OUCH!" thoughts, but SSG have proved themselves, at least in my eyes, to offer quality gaming and, again imo, at a reasonable price (entertainment value per hour).

I can't buy this month...not with having bought Midway and Distant Worlds...but I will get this.
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Price

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
The lack of a discount isn't something I'm happy with, as it was clearly promised earlier and generally the communication to the fans has been fairly poor. However, I don't blame that entirely on SSG, as they had various troubles of their own and are simply not a big development team/studio so if a few extra euro's helps them in some way, that's fine with me.

We did not promise a discount and as far as I knew that had only been an internal discussion, which ended up with us realizing we could not do it based on incomplete records and the price ended up being set with that taken into account.
For those thinking the price is high: you might be right from various perspectives, but keep in mind that you also essentially pay to support the development of future scenarios for the engine. I'd also strongly suggest that you visit the official forums at ssg.com.au/forums as the vast majority of all scenarios are never truly officially released and posted on the SSG custom scenarios page or elsewhere.

This is very true. Games like SSG makes are very niche games at this point and we cannot charge mass-market prices for them - both we and SSG agree on that. If we priced something like ATD Second Edition at $19.99 that would be the last expansion they could afford to make.

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- Erik
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RE: Price

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
On the other hand...I said "OUCH!" about Kharkov:Disaster on the Donetz - but I eventually bought it and I was very, very impressed. The quality of the product is immense and the gaming system is spot on - with particular "mention in dispatches" being given to the Areas of Operation and the variety that they entail.

This to me is the most important point - once you play the game and understand what SSG does terms of the work and quality they put into these, you realize that it's worth the money.
What I was trying to say was I understand the "OUCH!" thoughts, but SSG have proved themselves, at least in my eyes, to offer quality gaming and, again imo, at a reasonable price (entertainment value per hour).
I can't buy this month...not with having bought Midway and Distant Worlds...but I will get this.

Thanks Judge!
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TargAK
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RE: Price

Post by TargAK »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

TARG,
ORIGINAL: TARG
Even though I purchased the new add on I must say I feel somewhat dissapointed.

What disappointed you, exactly?


The fact that we were told that previous owners of ATD would get a discount.

Then on release day there is no mention of a discount and not only that but I had to ask rather than be told about the reversal. I am also dissapointed in

the reason why no discount could be applied, it seems to me to be less than honest.

I still chose to support SSG but the transaction with Matrix has been rather sleazy in my opinion.
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Erik Rutins
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RE: Price

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: TARG
The fact that we were told that previous owners of ATD would get a discount.
Then on release day there is no mention of a discount and not only that but I had to ask rather than be told about the reversal. I am also dissapointed in
the reason why no discount could be applied, it seems to me to be less than honest.
I still chose to support SSG but the transaction with Matrix has been rather sleazy in my opinion.

When did we promise a discount? If we did, I apologize, but I do not recall that. There was an internal discussion on that, which ended when we realized we did not have a complete list of ATD owners to verify against. SSG and we agreed at that point to price it as it is now, given that the content is greater than what was in Kharkov but it's still an expansion and thus less than full game price.

Every decision here was made in cooperation with SSG, there is no attempt at sleaziness or bait and switch here.
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JudgeDredd
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RE: Price

Post by JudgeDredd »

"Sleazy is never a word I or most people here (if I may be so bold) would associate with Matrix Games. [:-]
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