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- 8/2/2002 10:46:45 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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Well I, for one, am glad it's been fixed. I always thought that was a pretty lame bug. ;)

Can anyone speak with authority on the games modelling of snow cushioning HE explosions and/or enhanced damage from airbursts, particularly in trees?

I've always wondered if those situations were modelled in SPW@W. :)

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Post #: 31
- 8/2/2002 11:01:50 AM   
Hades

 

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Steel blocking out the sunlight?

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Post #: 32
- 8/2/2002 12:18:33 PM   
G_X

 

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It's been pouring non-stop since turn one, I can always have a minimum of half my arty on one spot.

I don't know if WaW models those situations Pixel, sorry.

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Post #: 33
Norwegian OOB - 8/4/2002 5:15:37 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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Kanda' - How does one access items like the Ammo Canister for use in generated battles? (available 12'49 only) Or is it only an item that can be accessed when creating a scenario?

(Boy, you play large games!! :D )

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Post #: 34
- 8/4/2002 7:21:47 AM   
G_X

 

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It's not as big as the China Vs. Taiwan one I have going on in MBT...

Done to represent a Full Scale Modern Day assault by China into Taiwan :D

It started almsot two months ago and I forget the number of points we used, whatever the max is for MBT...It's huge...I have something like over 10 infantry companies and then some, plus armour, arty, and specialized Inf. as China. Taiwan's about equal size...

Used the biggest map for MBT and just could barely fit everything in there by stacking stuff up.

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Post #: 35
- 8/7/2002 11:31:35 AM   
Kanda'

 

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Greetings...

Well, Capt Pixel I fixed it with Spwawedit. Set it to jan 1930 -dec 49. Same with the trains, bus etc... Also made a supply Bus and an icecream truck... hehehe... Plays the Jingle jingle when it moves.. Completely unarmed, size 0 1 man van. Made a formation of 10 of them. Hide them well forward on the front line, when my nephew's tanks come driving down a road, a bunch of them bail out and run away ringing their bells! Drives him crazy... I think he has this thing about clowns... :eek:
I mixed the overrun sounds (of men crying in agony and a jingling intro to a song and made a wav file for it) rather unnerving. A dead giveaway when they move! Psych warfare?

I use the Norway OOB to experiment with all kinds of things. Like a paladin-like mine artillary. An observation plane - I wanted an unarmed slow moving airplane that would just spot, but if it's unarmed, it won't get called in. So I just made a weapon that did no damage made it speed 1, 200 hit points, and dirt cheap. It just soaks up all kinds of AA and spots very well. If you make it part of a ground formation, you can buy them in your core force and have them available in all weather. Helicopters, Anti aircraft missiles, antitank missiles, all kinds of goodies...

Kanda'

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Post #: 36
- 8/10/2002 5:23:52 AM   
Larry Holt

 

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Best discussion of tactics I've read in awhile.

I nominate this for hall of fame!

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Never take counsel of your fears.

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Post #: 37
- 8/10/2002 7:10:19 AM   
G_X

 

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Sounds like a plan to me, I second that nomination!

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Post #: 38
Thanks and .. - 8/13/2002 11:59:35 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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I agree. Seems I managed to get some of the forum boys to divulge some of their best artillery secrets. Heheh. :D

I've started using some of the tactics mentioned above, and I've had very good results. :cool:

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Post #: 39
- 8/18/2002 9:20:53 AM   
Ivan

 

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i have a question, how do you correct your artillery, i mean, i usually just click where i want it to come and it comes there a round later, but i think you can correct it more accurately, how is this done.

and another thing, whats with the primamy hex thing, the red circle, if im bombing several different places, and ive marked them, and then i click priority hex, will it all fall down in that area despite me choosing some of em to fall somewhere else

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Post #: 40
- 8/18/2002 5:32:58 PM   
Belisarius


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ivan
[B]i have a question, how do you correct your artillery, i mean, i usually just click where i want it to come and it comes there a round later, but i think you can correct it more accurately, how is this done.

and another thing, whats with the primamy hex thing, the red circle, if im bombing several different places, and ive marked them, and then i click priority hex, will it all fall down in that area despite me choosing some of em to fall somewhere else [/B][/QUOTE]

Huh? Not quite sure I follow you there, Ivan. :confused:

Anyhoo, after you have assigned an artillery piece a target hex, you can click the 4-way arrow button to the far right in the menu. Then you will se a red circle w/ 2 hex radius around the target hex. Now you can shift the target to any hex within that circle (given it doesn't go beyond range for the piece - happens a lot with mortars).

As for the second question it confuses me. What I've think you've done is simply pressed the shift-fire button. It will only change target hex for the unit you have selected, all other artillery will fire at their respective targets.

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Post #: 41
- 8/20/2002 12:23:36 AM   
Svennemir

 

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The use of rockets:

While these are indeed wildly inaccurate (especially offboard ones), they do have a use for which they are highly effective: they can route half the enemy army in just one turn!

Especially BM-13/31 Katyushas seem to have success at this since they fire 16 or 12 rockets with high explosive power in one volley, instantly hitting a large area. Placing a number (4++) of Katyusha bombardments covering a large area of 1-2 whole "screens" will upon impact be routed. The following 1-2 turns you can freely advance with fast units in that area and prevent the enemy from regrouping.

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Post #: 42
- 8/20/2002 4:31:47 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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I don't consider rockets 'inaccurate' so much as that they feature a really large 'spread' of incoming fire.

As Svenemir stated, this can be really handy for supressing and routing an enemy across a large area. But because of this large impact area, it's risky to use them near your own troops.

As a preparatory act, rockets can be quite handy. But then they're shot. The real trick is to paste an area with rockets and have fast, sturdy units move in to the newly created moonscape to capitalize on the routed enemy. (SO T-34s are excellent in this role)

- But -

For about the same cost, you can get a large bore artillery that will continue to fire over several rounds with a much tighter (safer for your units) incoming pattern. This makes it easier for your units to 'Lean on the Barrage' and you don't need speedy units to come in under the barrage. Rocket barrages are not very forgiving in this approach, because timing is everything. ;)

For the cost of reload ammunition (trucks, dumps), you could probably purchase another battery or two (or five) of large bore artillery.

Despite the costs and logistics nightmares, I too have a soft spot for Nebelwerfers and Wurfrahmens. :D But I usually only get them in large assault scenarios and usually only in small numbers.

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Post #: 43
- 9/15/2002 6:16:12 PM   
Jacc

 

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I use my artillery very often in a kind of Blitzkrieg manner: my quick units (light and medium tanks, HTs, quick infantry teams) are dug in and well positioned. I just need one right time salvo from full artillery and the enemy forces nearby just break up. Then crash into the party and finish it off. This is very valuable and good tactics if locked up, like fighting for a single hill or forest patch.

Wurfrahmen 40s are so good and cheap that mass use of them should be regarded as cheating. OK, I use them myself whenever available. Four to eight flame rockets disperse almost all infantry near them, kill tanks like flies and are so wildly inaacurate, that sometimes they can miss with over ten hexes. Wurfrhamens, Katyushas or other can be used as sweepers, you only have to deploy maximum amount into a single target. This is no more suppression, it's destroying. Very valuable to use against large formations.

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Post #: 44
- 10/3/2002 5:03:43 PM   
Frank W.

 

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perhaps in seting up games there shoulb be some historic things not to forgotten!

as in 44 or 45 germans don´t have that much arty available, except for the ardennes offensive....

while russians and US should have plenty of them

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Post #: 45
H2H artillery update - 1/5/2003 7:07:19 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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Having recently gotten my hands on H2H (thanks Goblin :D ),
I started playing and noticed some differences in artillery performance. Thought you'd all like to know.

The Rate of Fire (ROF) on all the artillery pieces that I looked at has been increased by 1 or 2 rounds each. This doesn't seem to be much until you start using it. :eek: I was a little surprised when my GE 120mm mortars started petereing out after turn 2!

Earlier I'd mentioned that mortars actually consume ammo at a higher rate than than listed ROF? Well these mortars were popping off 11(!) rounds a turn (ROF 8). With only 30 rounds to start with, it doesn't last long.

Most artillery pieces can't deliver a full volley for more than 2 or 3 turns unless they're resupplied by ammo resources. Ammo resupply rates and behavior doesn't seem to be affected in H2H. (from v7.1)

Some larger offboard artillery has been reduced in the number of tubes, giving you less options to stretch your OBA ammo. Turning several tubes off to reserve them for later use becomes an even more important strategy in H2H.

(Artillery information screen [eyeball], select weapon [upper righthand corner], click to toggle weapon from green to red [On to Off])

Ammo canisters are a welcome inclusion and available for most countries. But given the changes above, ammunition resupply has become a 'must have' if you're going to use on-board artillery.

The v7.1 method of surrounding an ammo dump or a pair of ammo trucks, won't keep your artillery fully loaded anymore. It's just being fired off too fast. It seems that a single ammo truck/canister can reload about 1/3 the rounds that a given arty piece can fire, and an ammo dump can reload about 2/3 of the fired rounds. (Rather than 1/2 and 1/1 in v7.1)

Another way to conserve OBA is to deliberately plot barrages with a 0.4 or 0.5 delay. This brings in 80% or 20%, respectively of the artillery unit's barrage (8 rounds or 3 rounds for a 120mm mortar). This barrage arrives after the opponent's turn, and before your turn comes again.

After dropping 80% (or 20%) of a full barrage on his head you've consumed a smaller portion of your ammo, and you can decide on your turn whether it's best to continue the barrage or move it on to new targets.

This happened to me with some USMC Med Naval guns (v7.1). I plotted one tube on turn 0, and she fired off 40 rounds! (They only have 42). By plotting with a delay of 0.5, I got it down to 10 rounds coming in at the end of the Japanese turn. On my turn I'd replot and delay it to 0.5 again. That was sufficient to do the job and kept that gun tube firing for four turns. Then I turned on the second tube, etc.

For those that don't know how to set a plot delay:

bring in your plot and adjust it's location using the 4-way arrow icon on the artillery screen (righthand-most column). Click on the 4-way arow, and a circle will appear around the original plot point. Select any hex within the circle and click on it. The plot will relocate to that hex and the delay time will increase. Repeat until the desired delay time is achieved.

Most units will impart a 0.2 to 0.4 delay penalty for each replot. FOs generally have a 0.1 penalty for each replot. :cool:

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Post #: 46
- 1/5/2003 7:13:26 AM   
Goblin


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Shu'p

Goblin:mad:

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Post #: 47
- 1/6/2003 1:34:24 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goblin
[B]Shu'p

Goblin:mad: [/B][/QUOTE]

Snuffle, snuffle

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Post #: 48
- 1/7/2003 10:18:50 AM   
Supervisor

 

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You'll have to excuse Gob he's feeling too much like himself. Meaner and more ornery then ususal but the flu will pass and he'll be back to his old chipper and happy self before we know it.:p

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Post #: 49
- 1/7/2003 2:00:50 PM   
willy


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Excellent advice ... I hadn't noticed the greater rate of fire in H2H for mortars. I also hadn't really considered the reload speed of ammo boxes and I thought that one per battery was enough. I've always been a little sloppy with arty! keep the hints coming ;) ;)

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Post #: 50
- 1/20/2003 1:48:57 AM   
Tombstone

 

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Something I like doing is plotting as much of my artillery as possible as early as possible anticipating needs. Delay them all to 1.1 or more and wait till next turn. Repeat until contact, hopefully I have a few missions sitting very near actual enemy units and can drop immediately on contact. During assault missions it isn't as important except for putting some pending missions on places where it isn't likely, but possible that enemies are in position in a particular place then cancelling them once you pass the position. On the defensive though it can really help, you get it to feel like once a unit shows up you have something to strike it immediately, and if it's big enough to make craters it'll slow em down.

Tomo

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Post #: 51
- 1/20/2003 12:51:56 PM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tombstone
[B]... Delay them all to 1.1 or more and wait till next turn. Repeat until contact, hopefully I have a few missions sitting very near actual enemy units and can drop immediately on contact. ....[/B][/QUOTE]

I've started doing a variation of this with some great successes. I plot out my gold spots first, along likely approaches or my line of advance. Then I plot some artillery AWAY from those gold spots and delayed to turn 1 or 2.

On the following turns, I can either readjust those delayed barrages around their original plot or cancel them and replot from one of the gold spots. I can effectively double the number of places I can put a barrage down immediately on the first or second turn in this way.

Surprises the H#!! out of your opponent too. :D :cool:

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Post #: 52
Doesn't always work - 2/14/2003 7:42:50 AM   
Buzzard45


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
[B]I've started doing a variation of this with some great successes. I plot out my gold spots first, along likely approaches or my line of advance. Then I plot some artillery AWAY from those gold spots and delayed to turn 1 or 2.

On the following turns, I can either readjust those delayed barrages around their original plot or cancel them and replot from one of the gold spots. I can effectively double the number of places I can put a barrage down immediately on the first or second turn in this way.

Surprises the H#!! out of your opponent too. :D :cool: [/B][/QUOTE]

I've been doing that with Air-strikes but it seems the pilot gets inpatient and won't answer the radio after awhile or thinks you are the enemy and ignores your request to change targets. Sometimes you can cancel (and re-target with a 1.1 delay) or maybe he's just stubborn and bombs what he sees. Even if it is friendlies.
I think it has to do with whether or not the spotter (FO) has lost radio contact.

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Post #: 53
Airstrikes and other Bizzareness in SPW@W - 2/14/2003 11:35:04 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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Yep that's true. All manner of weird things can occur. In a current H2H game, my Off-board had decided to NOT respond to plot changes OR Cancellation. The only choice I had was to let it go as is, or shut down the tubes so they wouldn't fire and waste ammunition. Unfortuantely, you can't do this with aircraft. Not being able to cancel an incoming plot was pretty bizarre, and a bit frustrating. :mad:

When I'm using Gold Spots for Airstrike purposes, I use them a little differently. I'll line them near the top and bottom edges of where I think his avenue of approach will be. (usually near the top and bottom edge of the map) And perhaps one or two near the center of his suspected advance.

When it's time to call in an airstrike, I'll select the direction I want the aircraft to approach based on targetting somewhere within a single adjustment from one of these 'boundary' Gold Spots. Minor adjustments off the Gold Spot usually allows me to line up on a hex grain populated with enemy units. This way I can 'Sling-Shot' an airstrike quickly and with minimum targetting hassles. :)

Aircraft will tend to begin targetting the furthest unit they can see, and then work their way back, targetting closer units sequentially. One can typically assume the airstrike will hit the first available vehicle after the plot point. (This isn't always the case, but I've never been able to determine exactly what the criteria are for targetting your own vehicles. :rolleyes: )

If you plan your approach from the target's side or rear facings, it seems you increase the chances of immobilizations, engine and track damage, and, I believe, kills. Frontal approaches may result in the main armament being damaged.

In any case, plot your approach and exit paths so that your aircraft won't fly over any of your forces that you don't want him to see. (like your artillery park or your armor assembly area)

Also try to time the flight so that occurs after his turn (0.3 - 0.5 delay) This way, he'll get a quick view of forces on the map at the end of his turn. But you'll get to see them in the VCR replay just before you start [I]your[/I] turn. :)

This is a substantial advantage in intelligence gathering. You can act immediately on the new intel, while he has to wait for you to move, and then react.

Order of purchase of Airstrikes and artillery in the OOB is important too.

If you purchase your artillery before the airstrikes, the artillery will barrage first during a turn before the aircraft arrive. This gives you an opportunity to suppress any AA you know of, before the planes start their bombing runs. AA might still fire, but they should have a reduced chance to hit from the suppression.

If artillery is purchased after the airstrikes, more of the map and units will be exposed after the air sorties are gone as the map scrolls to display the incoming artillery barrages on the same turn. If planes have already flown over, many more units will be revealed during this process. How much additional information is gained is based on what's near those subsequent barrage's impact hexes.

Fighters can be used as aerial reconn too. Just plot their target hex at the extreme edge of the map where they'll exit. They'll fly across the map and fire once into the map edge target hex and then exit. (sometimes they'll drop their bomb loads too, but not usually)

When I use aircraft I consider, in purchase order, three types: Fighters, Fighter-bombers and Heavy bombers (This does not include High altitude bombers which are modelled differently)

I use the less expensive fighters to run reconn as I described above and to draw fire from AA emplacements. Some cost as little as a truck or two and can give you lots of intel in a single pass. These are usually the first to fly over the battlefield.

The Fighter-bombers are the workhorses. A turn after the fighters have drawn out AA and provided some reconn, the Fighter-bombers go in to prosecute. They're used to target vehicles and AA emplacements almost exclusively. If they can dispatch a few infantry too, more power to them.

The Heavy bombers I save for bunker-busting or dispersing large congregations of enemy infantry.

I don't personally like having aicraft in human vs human games. the instant aerial reconn is a bit much, IMHO. OTH, if I've got nothing to do and am looking for some diversion, I'll set up an all-air force and cream some opposing AI enemy. Lot's of explosions! I love it!. :cool:

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Post #: 54
- 3/3/2003 5:54:31 PM   
CatLord


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Is it me, or is artillery on border of a slope (e.g. on a hill altitude 10, bordering an altitude 5 hex) less likely to be blinded with smoke, as the smoke rather land on them (no effect), or one altitude below ?

(I think enough smoke one altitude below might do the trick ultimately).

Has anyone made test, or am I completely wrong ?

Cat

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Post #: 55
Impenetrable Smoke - 3/4/2003 1:07:24 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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I believe that smoke is modelled to obscure that hex at all altitudes. In other words, it's taller than anything else on the map. So your spotter's altitude relative to the target is irrelevant regarding the smoke. (I've never tested this, so I could be wrong. :rolleyes: )

This is NOT true with AA and, I believe, airstrikes. Neither care if there's smoke about. It's ignored.

In ASL, smoke had a height of 'two' and white phosphorous had a height of 'four'. But in all but a very few special cases, this usually blocked sighting from any nearby height.

Personally, I think smoke should be limited to 10 meters above the target hex's altitude. That effectively blots visibility up to 30 feet off the ground. That's plenty. :D

Note too, that smoke (artillery or infantry laid) rarely hangs around longer than six turns. After that, it begins to fade and finally dissappear. High winds can reduce that time even more.

With this tidbit of knowledge, you can consider tactically smoking an area, moving into defensive positions, wait for the smoke to clear and begin shooting. :cool:

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Post #: 56
Re: Impenetrable Smoke - 3/4/2003 1:26:13 AM   
CatLord


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
[B]I believe that smoke is modelled to obscure that hex at all altitudes. In other words, it's taller than anything else on the map. So your spotter's altitude relative to the target is irrelevant regarding the smoke. (I've never tested this, so I could be wrong. :rolleyes: )

This is NOT true with AA and, I believe, airstrikes. Neither care if there's smoke about. It's ignored.[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks Capt. Pixel, you just explain why my 37mm Republican AT gun is now blind and could not knock down my opponents Pz I , while his Nationalist 88mm Flak AA could blow up any lend-lease Soviet tanks I have no matter how much smoke I put on his hill... :eek:

Cat

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Post #: 57
Re: Re: Impenetrable Smoke - 3/4/2003 3:15:13 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by CatLord
[B]Thanks Capt. Pixel, you just explain why my 37mm Republican AT gun is now blind and could not knock down my opponents Pz I , while his Nationalist 88mm Flak AA could blow up any lend-lease Soviet tanks I have no matter how much smoke I put on his hill... :eek:

Cat [/B][/QUOTE]

I've never considered that application of AA through smoke. Seems a little 'gamey' to me (kinda like the Panther Uhu), but it's still a tactic that might have some merit. I'll have to give it a try one of these days. :D

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Post #: 58
- 5/7/2003 9:21:00 PM   
UndercoverNotChickenSalad


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I pretty thick so let me get this straight: You guys are saying FlaK is immune to smoke effects ?

I've never noticed.

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Post #: 59
- 5/28/2003 7:04:54 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

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I could be wrong, but I think this is meant to model crude radar-targetting. The AA crew wouldn't care about smoke in this case. :cool:

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