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Port Operations - 3/15/2010 6:55:58 PM   
HexHead

 

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Some basic Qs about port ops:

* Repair ships: do they have to be in a TF or not to function correctly? IOW, do AS's, AG's, etc., have to be in a TF in the port (w/ Dest Hex being the port?)?

* Same question for Support ships (AV's, etc.).

How does Docking/Undocking affect Support and Repair, if it does?

"Repair with tenders" - per above. In TF or not? Docked or not?

...and while I'm here, what are the distinctions among the different types of AV ships? Some are for float planes only?

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired
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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 5:33:17 PM   
topeverest

 

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HexHead,

repair ships must be disbanded in port as do support ships until late in the war when ammo replenishment becomes available by sea.

As far as repair, I strongly reccomend reading the ship repair section of the manual several times. It is not too easy to explain in a few sentences. At a high level...all categories require ship disbanded in port.

Readiness - ship stays online uses own crew to repair - May get support from repair ship
Pier-side - ship taken off line and gets assist from port and naval support. may get repair from repair ship.
repair ship - ship uses crew and repair ship. Note may be faster or slower than other repair options based on damage and available faciltiies
shipyard - ship off-line in dry doc. generally speaking used for major damage only. Does not repair non-major damage well on a relative basis.

A note on speed Low - Normal - fast - critical. This is the amount of effort put to this one ship. you need to carefully consider how to use this, from a supply and facilities use perspective. remember the most aggressive forms of repair are not needed in many cases.

A note on ARD (floating dry docs). Allies have most of these. The can repair some major floatation damage on many ships. You dont get many repair ships, so dont squander them.

CS, AV, AVD, and AVP - You are aware that Jap and Allied fucntions in these classes are different? Allied ships must disband in a port or beach hex, where Jap ships usually act as floatplane carriers. Largest to smallest ship classes in this group are listed the way I typed them. For example, an AV might provide Torpedoes for a Catalina in a beach hex with no BF present.

You really will have to fiddle around to learn it.

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(in reply to HexHead)
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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 5:45:17 PM   
Mynok


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Are you sure Allied ships must disband? I think they just have to be in a stationary TF, otherwise they couldn't support planes in coastal hexes.

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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 6:03:27 PM   
topeverest

 

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I have only used base and beach hexes to date. I havent come across a need to do it elsewhere.

Since you have, this is a point of amendment.

Thanks.



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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 6:35:58 PM   
HexHead

 

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Thanks guys, air was getting stuffy...

Yes, I have read the manual and wil continue to read it. I have read it in some detail & do not recall a clear discussion of the points I raised, but that's OK - the manual doesn't explain Reaction Radius, either.

BTW, I'm a technical writer - I write manuals and Help and system dox, yadda yadda. I'd give the manual a C-. There is some content that is simply missing, the organization could've been rethought (how about a section on Tasks, for instance, or even 'Port Ops'? - you don't have to organize the material around things), and the layout is not eyeball friendly.

Gimme a solid month (200 hours) with the program and I'll write a manual and online Help. $8,000 should be right.

In all fairness, I don't know what their business model is and what the deadlines were.

ADDENDUM

This is why I come here for info. Also, a primary research technique is...run the program!

And...do I conclude that Mynok is correct & one needs only a docked or undocked TF for support and repairs to function?

Does docking impede these operations?

Another one: do support and repair ships who have cargo capabilities need Supplies in the hold to operate?



< Message edited by HexHead -- 3/16/2010 6:54:41 PM >


_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to topeverest)
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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 7:27:49 PM   
Mynok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

I have only used base and beach hexes to date. I havent come across a need to do it elsewhere.

Since you have, this is a point of amendment.

Thanks.




No, I was asking for clarification for myself, as it wasn't like that in Witp. The only Jap advantage in Witp was at-sea launching by AV's.


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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 7:32:46 PM   
John Lansford

 

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Repair ships (I think) have to be disbanded to function.  I do this all the time so I can't say if they will work in a TF but I doubt it.

Support ships (AV, AE, AD, etc) can be in a TF and docked or disbanded and still perform their functions.

Repair: basically, big ports repair more than small ones, disband the ships and they'll get to work on them.  If the port doesn't have a shipyard, though, the repairs will be limited to minor damage only, and it may take a while to get it done.  Put AR's in big ports without shipyards and they will help repair stuff faster.

Support ships MUST be loaded with supplies (and set to 'do not unload') for them to reload their particular class of ships.  They can be docked or disbanded, doesn't matter.  That applies to AS, AD, AE and AO and their variants.  AV's don't need supplies, neither do AR's.

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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 7:34:23 PM   
Mynok


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AVs don't need supplies but I'm quite certain the planes they service do.

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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 8:40:15 PM   
Charbroiled


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Repair ships (I think) have to be disbanded to function.  I do this all the time so I can't say if they will work in a TF but I doubt it.


I don't think ARs need to be disbanded to function. One of the suggestions from a designer was to put a AR in an escort TF with damaged ships in order to help maintain temp floatation support when transfering the damaged ships to a port with a shipyard.

quote:

Support ships MUST be loaded with supplies (and set to 'do not unload') for them to reload their particular class of ships.  They can be docked or disbanded, doesn't matter.  That applies to AS, AD, AE and AO and their variants.  AV's don't need supplies, neither do AR's.


I don't think AS and AD type ships need to be loaded with supplies in order to work.


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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 9:23:53 PM   
HexHead

 

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But they might need the supply top-off to issue torps, etc.

_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

(in reply to Charbroiled)
Post #: 10
RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 9:57:58 PM   
Charbroiled


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead

But they might need the supply top-off to issue torps, etc.


Possibly, but I don't think so. IIRC, it was mentioned shortly after release that torpedos for AS and AD type ships are handled differently then torpedos for aircrafts....meaning no pool.

The way I use AS type ships (no supplies loaded on ship) is to put them in a port (ie. Midway)....send the subs I want to operate out of said port....then assign patrol missions for sub and then forget about them (but check periodically). I haven't checked for awhile, but I think they are getting torpedos without any problem.

But now that this has came up, I better check. I could have a bunch of subs without torpedos.

_____________________________

"When I said I would run, I meant 'away' ". - Orange

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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 11:29:22 PM   
Don Bowen


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Repair Ships must be disbanded into the port to provide repair assistance. The ships being repaired must also be disbanded into the port.

Repair ships in this regard are AR, ARD and also tenders providing repairs (as separate from other tender services). No supply is required to be aboard repair ships (or tenders providing repairs) and none is consumed by repairs.

Ammo ships, including tenders providing rearming, depend on the type of replenishment ordered. If Replenish From Port is ordered, the ammo ships (and tenders) must be disbanded into the port. If Replenish At Sea is ordered, ammo ships (and tenders) must be in TFs in the hex. Some of this was changed after the manual was released. Ships doing rearming must have supply aboard and supply is consumed by the rearming. In addition, the ammo ship/tender must have sufficient capacity for the weapon being rearmed.


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RE: Port Operations - 3/16/2010 11:40:03 PM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HexHead


BTW, I'm a technical writer - I write manuals and Help and system dox, yadda yadda. I'd give the manual a C-. There is some content that is simply missing, the organization could've been rethought (how about a section on Tasks, for instance, or even 'Port Ops'? - you don't have to organize the material around things), and the layout is not eyeball friendly.

Gimme a solid month (200 hours) with the program and I'll write a manual and online Help. $8,000 should be right.

In all fairness, I don't know what their business model is and what the deadlines were.



So you'd be willing to pay $8,000 to rewrite the manual...heck we didn't have to pay to work on this thing...

And in all fairness...IMO the manual is a shade better than the WitP manual.

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RE: Port Operations - 3/17/2010 2:47:12 AM   
HexHead

 

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No, I get paid.

It's just facetious, anyway. As far as the doc set goes - meh. Seen worse, could be better. It's a business, not an art form, although creativity can play a role.

And a big THX to those who have pitched in with the best of their knowledge. It's through questions and threads that I learn the finer (or coarser!) points of the program.

< Message edited by HexHead -- 3/17/2010 2:49:57 AM >


_____________________________

"Goddamn it, they're gittin' away!!"
- unknown tincan sailor near the end of Leyte Gulf, when Kurita retired

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