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Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/9/2010 11:39:41 PM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 311
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Greetings.
I have couple qoestion(as always-nothing new here) about race characteristic and their traits. To help myself I will use some examples from MoO I&II. I will use this becoze of my limited english skillz and becoze most of us know this game.
Then I will begin.
1)If there is possible to give race penalty in resarch, resource extraction, espionage, trade or happiness?
2) How to make race with diplomatic adantage(like Humans in MoO)? I know that Inteligence have effect how smart AI is in diplomatic deals. Any other traits effect something?
3)Is any other traits than Intelligence and Agressivness effect ground combat strenght? And how much stronger units are with high Inteigence or Agressivness(or both)?
4)If agressivnes effect only how race like to go war or have effect on race expansion?
5)What affect race family? If it have any bonus/penalty relations with other race from same or oposite family? Or this is only cosmetc addon?
6)If any race can colonize any habitabe planet? Or you need some technology to colonize non homeworld type planet? If there any restrictions?
7)If it possible to terramorfing planet to more wanted status?


_____________________________

You can call me a god but I am Better than that.
Why? Answer is simple. Becoze I am a CAT.
Post #: 1
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/10/2010 4:01:21 AM   
elliotg


Posts: 3231
Joined: 9/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
1)If there is possible to give race penalty in resarch, resource extraction, espionage, trade or happiness?

Currently only have bonuses in these areas - but I like that idea of a penalty (negative bonus). I'm pretty sure you'll see that feature shortly after release

quote:


2) How to make race with diplomatic adantage(like Humans in MoO)? I know that Inteligence have effect how smart AI is in diplomatic deals. Any other traits effect something?

There's lots of factors that effect diplomacy. But there's no single "Diplomacy" bonus factor for a race.

quote:


3)Is any other traits than Intelligence and Agressivness effect ground combat strenght? And how much stronger units are with high Inteigence or Agressivness(or both)?

Currently just those two qualities. The base strength for troops is the aggression level of their race multiplied by the intelligence level of their race, e.g. for humans: 110 * 110 = 12100.

As troops gain experience their strength can increase beyond this, of course.

quote:


4)If agressivnes effect only how race like to go war or have effect on race expansion?

All the racial characteristics affect lots of things in the game. Each race roleplays their personality. A reasonably exhaustive list of game effects for racial characteristics is contained in the Galactopedia.

quote:


5)What affect race family? If it have any bonus/penalty relations with other race from same or oposite family? Or this is only cosmetc addon?

Yes, races in the same race family usually naturally like each other more. Some race families also naturally dislike races of other specific race families.

quote:


6)If any race can colonize any habitabe planet? Or you need some technology to colonize non homeworld type planet? If there any restrictions?

Each race has a native planet type that they can colonize. In addition all races can colonize the most hospitable planet type (Continental planets). As your colonization technology progresses you can then colonize more inhospitable planet types: marshy swamp and desert planets. But some planet types can never be colonized unless A) it is your races native planet type or B) there is a pre-existing independent alien race at the planet. So ocean, ice and volcanic planets require these situations for you to colonize them.

quote:


7)If it possible to terramorfing planet to more wanted status?

You cannot change a planet from one type to another type, i.e. change a desert planet to a continental planet.

(in reply to Sarissofoi)
Post #: 2
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/10/2010 4:41:19 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
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quote:

quote:


6)If any race can colonize any habitabe planet? Or you need some technology to colonize non homeworld type planet? If there any restrictions?

Each race has a native planet type that they can colonize. In addition all races can colonize the most hospitable planet type (Continental planets). As your colonization technology progresses you can then colonize more inhospitable planet types: marshy swamp and desert planets. But some planet types can never be colonized unless A) it is your races native planet type or B) there is a pre-existing independent alien race at the planet. So ocean, ice and volcanic planets require these situations for you to colonize them.

quote:


7)If it possible to terramorfing planet to more wanted status?

You cannot change a planet from one type to another type, i.e. change a desert planet to a continental planet.


If a non-habitable planet type, to my race, with a pre-existing alien race becomes part of my civilization can I use colony ships or migration with that new race to colonize the same type of originally non-habitable planet type?(Can the non-habitable planet type race help me expand to other planets of that type?)

I really wish that high terraforming or habitation technology could allow colonization of ALL planet types. Seems like high technology should allow elimination of limitations. (Adding to wish list.)

< Message edited by Wade1000 -- 3/30/2010 11:04:58 AM >


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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 3
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/10/2010 6:14:01 AM   
elliotg


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Joined: 9/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000
If a non-habitable planet type, to my race, with a pre-existing alien race becomes part of my civilization can I use colony ships or migration with that new race to colonize the same type of originally non-habitable planet type?(Can the non-habitable planet type race help me expand to other planets of that type?)

Yes, this is a key strategy to allow colonization of other valuable planet types.

(in reply to Wade1000)
Post #: 4
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/10/2010 1:31:40 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

quote:


3)Is any other traits than Intelligence and Agressivness effect ground combat strenght? And how much stronger units are with high Inteigence or Agressivness(or both)?

Currently just those two qualities. The base strength for troops is the aggression level of their race multiplied by the intelligence level of their race, e.g. for humans: 110 * 110 = 12100.


Are Humans the weakest race in the game? In Moo3 it was impossible to play Humans and get very far.
Even Joseph had to switch to the Evon to have a chance(iirc).

quote:


5)What affect race family? If it have any bonus/penalty relations with other race from same or oposite family? Or this is only cosmetc addon?
Yes, races in the same race family usually naturally like each other more. Some race families also naturally dislike races of other specific race families.


Will this data be in an editable table form ?






_____________________________

My e-troops don't unload OVER THE BEACH anymore, see:
Amphibious Assault at Kota Bharu
TF 85 troops securing a beachhead at Kota Bharu, 51,75
whew! I still feel better.

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 5
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/10/2010 2:39:40 PM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 311
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline
AD.3
Then Troops strenght can wary from 25%(50%Int and 50%Agr) to 225(150%Int and 150%Agr). That mean that the strongest units have 9x more power than the weakest. But this is min-max not really possible to see that units in game. Although most units will be have range from 70-150%.
Anyway what make me uncomfortable that you cant give additional bonus or penalty by other trait.
I mean Inteligence affect more than Ground Units(by tactical advantage) effect also resarch and diplomacy. Agressivnes also affect what race is doing and how beave not only how good are in ground fighting.
Then if I want make a race with great Troopers but not very inteligent(they are simply hard to kill and use instinct for example) or race whose are passive on strategic level but have great fighting skill then will be problem.
I mean in MoO I we have Bulrathi who have tremendous advantage in ground combat but they werent the brightest in the pocket.
Whats I mean: There is need for new traits(like Int or Agr) affecting only ground combat or meyby some perk system.

AD.5
Can you share info what family dislike others and how much this affect gameplay? Will be possible to make some race hating each other (like Mrrshans and Alkari in MoO)?

Ad.6
Is will be possible to make all race native planet only one type(continental for example) to make colonizable planets more rare and more atractive?

8.
What is with this Special Goverment perk for race?
Is this Spec Gov replace some other gov for this race(something like Spec Gov Federation for humans replace basic system Democracy) or this is uniqe Gov? Are Goverments types are modable? And if they are can modder add new goverments or only new Spec Goverment?

9.
Can you share with us what basic goverments bonus are?

10.
If there is possibility to make 20 game empire with only one race? I mean making starting 20 empire for example only humans?

11.
If any race characteristic directly affect ship combat? For bonus to evasions or hit chance?

_____________________________

You can call me a god but I am Better than that.
Why? Answer is simple. Becoze I am a CAT.

(in reply to rhohltjr)
Post #: 6
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/10/2010 11:11:10 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Anyway what make me uncomfortable that you cant give additional bonus or penalty by other trait.
I mean Inteligence affect more than Ground Units(by tactical advantage) effect also resarch and diplomacy. Agressivnes also affect what race is doing and how beave not only how good are in ground fighting.
Then if I want make a race with great Troopers but not very inteligent(they are simply hard to kill and use instinct for example) or race whose are passive on strategic level but have great fighting skill then will be problem.
I mean in MoO I we have Bulrathi who have tremendous advantage in ground combat but they werent the brightest in the pocket.
Whats I mean: There is need for new traits(like Int or Agr) affecting only ground combat or meyby some perk system.

My opinion is, while your idea, like in many games, might apply in Distant Worlds, the two race troop examples you describe could apply with using just intelligence and aggressivness. Any troops with just one of these traits would seem like 50% effectiveness in real life. While any troops without either of these traits would seem like 0% effectiveness in real life...even if they are super tough in armor. The traits in Distant Worlds seem to be less specific and spread out to affect many areas; which might be good and make sense.

quote:

AD.5
Can you share info what family dislike others and how much this affect gameplay? Will be possible to make some race hating each other (like Mrrshans and Alkari in MoO)?

I read that some race types start positive or negative to some other race types.

quote:

Ad.6
Is will be possible to make all race native planet only one type(continental for example) to make colonizable planets more rare and more atractive?

I read that there are certain race types that can colonize certain planet types that many other races can not colonize.


_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to Sarissofoi)
Post #: 7
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 12:07:37 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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From: Vermont, USA
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... and then there are discoveries like this, to really mix things up.






Attachment (1)

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Wade1000)
Post #: 8
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 3:18:47 AM   
martok


Posts: 812
Joined: 8/30/2004
Status: offline
Hello! I'm definitely going to be looking for that when I'm exploring the neighborhood....



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Post #: 9
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 3:43:01 AM   
elliotg


Posts: 3231
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
Will be possible to make some race hating each other (like Mrrshans and Alkari in MoO)?

Yes, you can tweak the bias for/against each empire in the game editor

quote:


Ad.6
Is will be possible to make all race native planet only one type(continental for example) to make colonizable planets more rare and more atractive?

Yes, you can set it up this way in the races.txt file if that's what you want

quote:


8.
What is with this Special Goverment perk for race?
Is this Spec Gov replace some other gov for this race(something like Spec Gov Federation for humans replace basic system Democracy) or this is uniqe Gov? Are Goverments types are modable? And if they are can modder add new goverments or only new Spec Goverment?

Each type of Special govt is only available to some races. In the races.txt file you can specify whether a race has a special govt, and if so, which type. You cannot add new govt types however.

quote:


10.
If there is possibility to make 20 game empire with only one race? I mean making starting 20 empire for example only humans?

Yes

quote:


11.
If any race characteristic directly affect ship combat? For bonus to evasions or hit chance?

No, race characteristics aren't involved in ship combat

(in reply to Sarissofoi)
Post #: 10
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 7:21:43 AM   
Sarissofoi


Posts: 311
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline

Wow that its nice. But this is +100% to current units strenght(lets say 75%) thats mean 175% in the end or this ruins double Troopers strenght(for example race with basic Troopers 75% gets 150%, race with 175% gets 350% and so)?

AD. 3.
Inteligence is clear. Race with better Int make better soldiers, they have better oficers, better planing and tactics.
But what agressivness do to troops?
My point that Troopers from race with 150% Agressivness are something like "Burn maim Kill" sort of berserkers who have will to fight (anyone even themselves, sort of Ork type) and race with 50% Agg can have discipline and unshakenble morale. Agressivness on strategic level dont make your troops better[If you want history examples take PolishLithuanian Commonwhealt. They have great soldiers but on strategic level Commonwhealth was very passive, on the other hand Pricipality of Moscow(later Tzardom of Russia) have rather poor quality troops and play very agrresive on strategic level].

Agressive race is harder to control, they arent very obdient by nature. Agressive race should have problems with discipline, revolts in army, soldiers fighting each others. On the other hand passive race can make perfect soldiers-obdient and non affected by defeats. You dont want bunch of warriors with ADHD you need disciplined soldiers with good officers. You know I still dont see how Space Rabbit race(very expansionist and agresive in strategic level due to their population presure) can field better soldiers than Star Wolfes race(teritorially and with hunter istincs, suprererior reflex stamina and teamwork but rather passive on strategic level). There is something lacking.
Thougness - can make not only your troops harder to kill or more heavy armed. This trait should give also race bonus to development. Simply though race with more resistnace and stamina are by nature better soldiers and workers than race with fragile bodies who are easly tired in harsh conditions.
On the other hand perk system with many single traits affecting only one(or in some rare examples more) discipline. I will use examples(which is easier to me):
Brave - bonus to ground battles
Shipbuliders - faster bulids ships and star bases
Defenders - bonus to defend on planets
etc.
Otherwise more traits is better. More ways to affect race statistic and behavior is better. Now when I want to give race perfect ground units I must max their INT and AGR which kinda sucks. Becoze this also effect(propably greatly) how race will behave and many other disciplins(like resarch and diplomacy for INT).
But this is idly chat. Probably nothing can be done now then talking about it will be waste of time. I suspect lack of bitching betatester in team. You know when everybody talking that game is great and nobody bitching then it is somethng wrong with it.

AD. 8
Can you change name or statistic for Goverments in game?
Making one Gov or special Gov into another?
For example changing Hive Mind into Communism and alter statistic(or something like that)?

12.
Are troops figting on their native type planet gain some sort of bonus? And is there some sort of penalty for units figting in hostile enviroment?
Something like race of Snowmen(native planet Ice) fighting on Volcanic planet against Lavafolsk(they are ofcourse on their native planet)?

13.
If there will be possibility to attack by ground units colony on planet which you cant colonize in normal way?
I mean normal way by lack technology or specific colonist?
Something like atacking desert colony with Snowmans troopers without desert colonization technology?


PS. Dont get me wrong. I want to see this game good and succesfull for my own interest but on other hand I love compleing and reasoning especially if there is reason for it.
Good Luck and God Speed.
BTW I want ofcourse thx Elliot for is patience and replies.
May the Force be with you.

< Message edited by Sarissofoi -- 3/11/2010 7:28:55 AM >


_____________________________

You can call me a god but I am Better than that.
Why? Answer is simple. Becoze I am a CAT.

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 11
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 11:25:26 AM   
elliotg


Posts: 3231
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
Otherwise more traits is better. More ways to affect race statistic and behavior is better. Now when I want to give race perfect ground units I must max their INT and AGR which kinda sucks. Becoze this also effect(propably greatly) how race will behave and many other disciplins(like resarch and diplomacy for INT).

Troops will no doubt get revisited after release and we'll add improvements in this area. You make some good points about troops, and I agree that more racial traits (including those affecting troops) the better. You've listed some good examples of traits that make sense. We'll likely add more of these, once everyone has had a chance to play the game and give their ideas.

(in reply to Sarissofoi)
Post #: 12
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 1:50:56 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline
Please provide more info on the game editor. ->Screen pic. details......

It has already been stated that you can alter the baseline way that the DW:lobster people
react and interact with the DW : rat people through the game editor(iirc).

What happens if you replace the DW: rat people with Klingons?
You have to go in and alter the interaction info somewhere.

Is this info in a text file, spreadsheet? Or what?

< Message edited by rhohltjr -- 3/11/2010 2:18:36 PM >


_____________________________

My e-troops don't unload OVER THE BEACH anymore, see:
Amphibious Assault at Kota Bharu
TF 85 troops securing a beachhead at Kota Bharu, 51,75
whew! I still feel better.

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 13
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 2:57:19 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
Otherwise more traits is better. More ways to affect race statistic and behavior is better. Now when I want to give race perfect ground units I must max their INT and AGR which kinda sucks. Becoze this also effect(propably greatly) how race will behave and many other disciplins(like resarch and diplomacy for INT).
But this is idly chat. Probably nothing can be done now then talking about it will be waste of time. I suspect lack of bitching betatester in team. You know when everybody talking that game is great and nobody bitching then it is somethng wrong with it.

I was trying to express that you can have the "Orc" type race by using high AGR and low INT. If you want a race with perfect ground units then, yes, you SHOULD have high AGR and high INT. That makes real life sense. My opinion is that, in real life, a race with just super high AGR and low INT would not have perfect soldiers.
Future armies may also use an army of AI or remotely operated machines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
12.
Are troops figting on their native type planet gain some sort of bonus? And is there some sort of penalty for units figting in hostile enviroment?
Something like race of Snowmen(native planet Ice) fighting on Volcanic planet against Lavafolsk(they are ofcourse on their native planet)?

It might be that all race troops are fighting in battle suits/powered armor/machines that largely negate environmental concerns. Or they have an army of AI or remotely operated machines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
13.
If there will be possibility to attack by ground units colony on planet which you cant colonize in normal way?
I mean normal way by lack technology or specific colonist?
Something like atacking desert colony with Snowmans troopers without desert colonization technology?

Great point. I want to know also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
PS. Dont get me wrong. I want to see this game good and succesfull for my own interest but on other hand I love compleing and reasoning especially if there is reason for it.
Good Luck and God Speed.
BTW I want ofcourse thx Elliot for is patience and replies.
May the Force be with you.

Agreed. Live long and prosper.

< Message edited by Wade1000 -- 3/11/2010 3:06:07 PM >


_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to Sarissofoi)
Post #: 14
RE: Race customisation. How to affect race characteristic - 3/11/2010 3:12:24 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: elliotg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
Otherwise more traits is better. More ways to affect race statistic and behavior is better. Now when I want to give race perfect ground units I must max their INT and AGR which kinda sucks. Becoze this also effect(propably greatly) how race will behave and many other disciplins(like resarch and diplomacy for INT).

Troops will no doubt get revisited after release and we'll add improvements in this area. You make some good points about troops, and I agree that more racial traits (including those affecting troops) the better. You've listed some good examples of traits that make sense. We'll likely add more of these, once everyone has had a chance to play the game and give their ideas.

That would be cool. I do think that Sarissofoi is right in that in would be interesting and feel more complete and grand in any troop trait should apply to the whole race and affect other relavent areas of the civilization.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi
AD. 3.
Inteligence is clear. Race with better Int make better soldiers, they have better oficers, better planing and tactics.
But what agressivness do to troops?
My point that Troopers from race with 150% Agressivness are something like "Burn maim Kill" sort of berserkers who have will to fight (anyone even themselves, sort of Ork type) and race with 50% Agg can have discipline and unshakenble morale. Agressivness on strategic level dont make your troops better[If you want history examples take PolishLithuanian Commonwhealt. They have great soldiers but on strategic level Commonwhealth was very passive, on the other hand Pricipality of Moscow(later Tzardom of Russia) have rather poor quality troops and play very agrresive on strategic level].

Agressive race is harder to control, they arent very obdient by nature. Agressive race should have problems with discipline, revolts in army, soldiers fighting each others. On the other hand passive race can make perfect soldiers-obdient and non affected by defeats. You dont want bunch of warriors with ADHD you need disciplined soldiers with good officers. You know I still dont see how Space Rabbit race(very expansionist and agresive in strategic level due to their population presure) can field better soldiers than Star Wolfes race(teritorially and with hunter istincs, suprererior reflex stamina and teamwork but rather passive on strategic level). There is something lacking.
Thougness - can make not only your troops harder to kill or more heavy armed. This trait should give also race bonus to development. Simply though race with more resistnace and stamina are by nature better soldiers and workers than race with fragile bodies who are easly tired in harsh conditions.
On the other hand perk system with many single traits affecting only one(or in some rare examples more) discipline. I will use examples(which is easier to me):
Brave - bonus to ground battles
Shipbuliders - faster bulids ships and star bases
Defenders - bonus to defend on planets
etc.
Otherwise more traits is better. More ways to affect race statistic and behavior is better. Now when I want to give race perfect ground units I must max their INT and AGR which kinda sucks. Becoze this also effect(propably greatly) how race will behave and many other disciplins(like resarch and diplomacy for INT).
But this is idly chat. Probably nothing can be done now then talking about it will be waste of time. I suspect lack of bitching betatester in team. You know when everybody talking that game is great and nobody bitching then it is somethng wrong with it.


_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to elliotg)
Post #: 15
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